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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Feb 2009 : 11:10:36 PM
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The above PBA 14.2hh Pony is our former homebred stallion Sunray Scenario, who has well proved his performance bloodline. The pics were taken at Ponies UK 2007 Winter Champs and Ponies UK Summer Champs 2008. (Scenario being 18yrs and 19 yrs old)and.....after many years as a successful ridden show pony, his owner started to jump him and that is definitely his forte.
He stood as a stallion with us for three years, before we castrated him and sold him to persue a ridden career. As a stallion, he also proved a successful sire of top class ridden ponies, in the showring and performance BSJA ponies.
His progeny range from 13.2hh HOYS winner Warrendine Twilight Rose, who has gained some 30+ championships at Major affiliated shows,with four different jockies.
a 16.00hh Dressage Horse Trudies Talisman out of a cob mare who was a twin. By far his best performance offspring is BSJA JC Showjumper Elmdale Expression out of a PBA x Welsh `D` mare who has covered herself with glory since being sold to Guernsey and was 6th in the Puissance at HOYS there. She is also equally as ease Eventing and Cross Country.
 Warrendene Twilight Rose
 Scenario`s look alike daughter
 Elmdale Enchantress
 
 
The above pics are Elmdale Expression (sorry..name wrong on one)
 Sunray Scenario`s full blood brother
Dam of Scenario and Splendour is our Anglo Arab BNC & AHS Premium Mare KARITZI, (who is full blood sister to our BNC Premium stallion)
Proving the Premium Scheme does work and handsome is as handsome does!!
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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Edited by - BabsR on 25 Feb 2009 11:30:41 PM |
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2009 : 09:53:42 AM
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That's more like it !
Show the product if you want to sell and the idea of using Arab blood |
    
blue moon |
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templars
Platinum Member
England
1852 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2009 : 10:04:36 AM
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Denise
What about the mares?????????????????????????????????????????????
Do their stock get overstamped? Is there a star system for them????????????? |
   www.eviepeel.com    |
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kirsty
Gold Member
United Kingdom
713 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2009 : 10:13:02 AM
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Hi Alistair
Billy is the horse in my signature he is by premium stallion Dhruv out of premium mare burrowshot lass. His website is www.yawlhillstud.co.uk (hope this is ok to post i do link back to arabian lines) there are several pictures of him on there. Babsr yes we are hoping to take him forward to the 2009 nasta grading
Kirsty
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   eric g jones  |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2009 : 10:44:03 AM
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Agree agree Templars....again, WHY just stallions? The dam of the two boys above, is herself a premium mare. She has bred 3-part bred Arabs and ALL her seven Anglo Arabs are Double Premium progeny, being sired by an AHS Premium sire, and Major Show Champions, with the exception of our Junior stallion, whom we have not shown
but is already siring his own Champions at open affiliated shows!!!
Her eldest Daughter, (destined for Ridden Competition but suffered a life threatening accident as a yearling) has produced fourteen top class offspring, Champions in Hand and ridden, with quite a good number of BNC amongst them, and most sired by different stallions!!
All three of Karitzi`s stallion sons, have themselves, sired successful show and competition offspring.
So I ask the AHS Premium Scheme to overstamp all the successful Brood and Ridden Premium Mares AND their progeny Passports and Certificates, with the Premium Scheme Stamp.....This would then benefit Breeders and Purchaser, and by AHS listing all Premium Stock,
recording all affiliated successes, for information and promotional purposes
AND for the AHS to re-introduce classes at all their affiliated shows, for Premium Progeny (in hand and under saddle) One, In-Hand and two Ridden, (1-for Ridden Showing and 1- for Potential Sport Horse which could include a small natural jump)
Think this may be a way forward for Breeders, and Riders, who are out there, proving the performance of our valuable British Bred Pure/Anglo/Part Bred Arab bloodlines
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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Edited by - BabsR on 26 Feb 2009 11:03:16 AM |
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2009 : 11:06:22 AM
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Just a thought
What if there was a class for Premium stock at Malvern?
It would be spectacle rather like the Princess Muna or Sire of the year for Pure-breds
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blue moon |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2009 : 11:21:42 AM
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Alistair....THERE ALWAYS USED TO BE CLASSES FOR PREMIUM STOCK AT THE NATIONAL SHOW AND WAS VERY WELL SUPPORTED!! THERE WERE ALSO ANGLO/PBA STALLION/MARE PRODUCE GROUPS WHICH WERE ALSO WELL SUPPORTED AND A PLEASURE TO WATCH!! My previous posts refers to same. Two of the dis-services which the AHS handed out to the Anglo Part Bred Arab Breeders, when they cancelled both these popular sections from the National Schedule. 1994 and 1996 respectively!!
TIME FOR A RETHINK AND RE-INTRODUCE THESE CLASSES, NOT JUST AT THE NATIONALS, BUT AT ALL AHS `C` SHOWS 
Methinks the above would also be of interest to Sport Horse Spectators
to assess the Premium Stallions/Mares potential competition stock.
Another failing in recent years at the National.........what has happened to our Anglo/PBA Spectators` Covered Seating Stand...yet another facility taken away from us??? Equality for all Members please!!!
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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Edited by - BabsR on 26 Feb 2009 11:53:03 AM |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2009 : 10:41:55 PM
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Denise will be forwarding pics for Premium Scheme as requested Is your E-Mail address on your website?
I noted in a recent post, you referred to Anglo Arab Stud Book as AA Register, presume that was an oversight.
This thread has proved a useful exercise to "test the water" and peruse the constructive ideas posted by Members. Certainly feel there are several suggestions, worthy of favourable consideration and discussion at the next Premium Scheme Sub Committee Meeting. Can only hope that the `voices` will be heard.
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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weirton
Gold Member
873 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 09:28:22 AM
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Well done nn for getting your piece about Romarnic Ranger in H&H and promoting the AHS Premium Scheme.
Jean |
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nn
Gold Member
England
659 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 10:41:02 AM
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Thanks Very Much Jean! We're very proud of him! |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 10:43:55 AM
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Hi Nickie.....echo Jeans congrats. Well done you Keep up the good work, and prove British Bred Horses, are as good as the best
Come on Templers, get writing to H & H regarding Taragon`s achievements in open competition and spread the word, that Pure Arabs can do it too!! and a MARE as well  
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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DenmoorStud
Gold Member
739 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 12:10:34 PM
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Babs I agree Scenario, has a good track record, so why did you geld him and I am not quite sure what connection he has with the Premium Scheme.
Nicky, Great to see Bradley in H&H as you are such a staunch supporter of the AHS Premium Scheme and Nasta. Looking forward to presenting you with the Breeders prize at the Arab Sport Horse, Trakehner Event on the 20th June at Warwickshire College
Kirsty, We will look forward to seeing you present Hillbilly at Nasta this year I am sure he will be a valuable addition to the Premium Scheme |
   
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 2:33:32 PM
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Denmoor.....Surprised and Disappointed that you see fit to ask the question "what had Sunray Scenario got to do with the Premium Scheme" !! WELL....his Dam Karitzi is a PREMIUM BROOD MARE. That is the reason I posted on this topic..........It is not ALL about Premium Stallions!!
As Templar says.."What about the Mares" The Premium Scheme is about introducing arabian performance bloodlines into Light Horse Breeding. KARITZI (AASB) has certainly MADE her contribution, and Yes, we did castrate Scenario ,who,is STILL out there aged 20yr
not only proving his AHS Premium Performance Bloodline, but also
still competing and still sound!! At stud, he sired 99% fillies
who themselves are competing, and through them, his proven capabilities will hopefully pass into their offspring.
KARITZI is also full blood sibling to Sunray Scelebrity, himself having proved an asset to the Premium Scheme without doubt, on the balance of his successful Show and competition offspring!! so very puzzled, that you think my post about Scenario, has little to do with the Premium Scheme. I WOULD SAY IT HAS GOT EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE PREMIUM SCHEME......Premium Mares, are as important and should be EQUALLY recognised and promoted, within the Scheme!! So why is it that the stallions seem to be the only half of the equation, worthy of mention!!
Ten years ago I did an analysis on the Anglo & Part Bred Premium Stallions. I have now just completed a further Analysis, and gleaned from this, that, apart from Fairlyn Gemini, the NASTA Tested stallions` AHS recorded progeny, were all at the bottom of the list, in terms of numbers of premium registered foals. This may mean of course that Breeders have not registered Premium foals with AHS!!
The fact remains, at the top of the list, next to Gemini, the two Stallions with the highest numbers of AHS registered Progeny, BOTH gained their Performance Premium Award,through their successful progeny. and I am justifiably proud that our stallion is one of them
and successes were gained not just in the Showring, but across the equestrian disciplines.
I might add also, when I collate the number of registered Double Premium Scheme registered offspring, Karitzi has produced,two Anglo stallions, with recorded progeny and seven Anglo mares (some with registered progeny) and not forgetting Scenario (with registered Progeny) her total contribution to the Premium Scheme, is actually HIGHER than most of the NASTA tested stallions!! So, please do not discount the PREMIUM SCHEME MARES, as I am sure there are many unsung heroins out there, equally capable in competition, who when retired to breeding, will add their valuable genes to the Premium pool
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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Edited by - BabsR on 27 Feb 2009 9:48:40 PM |
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nn
Gold Member
England
659 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 4:49:24 PM
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Hi Babs
A lot of Geminis stock are not registered with the AHS including some premium ones!
More so now that he is dead for some reason?
Last year i got a print out from the AHS of his registered stock and one from the SHB, i was very surprised at how many are not AHS registered.
I also know that since he graded into the trakehner stud book some of his offspring have been registered with them and not the AHS.
Perhaps a sign of the times?
Thanks Re;Ranger.
Denise
Thanks Re;Ranger and we look forward to our breeders prize!
Nicky |
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templars
Platinum Member
England
1852 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 5:30:18 PM
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Nicky
Congratulations It was lovely to see Ranger in H&H and so well deserved. You must be so pleased that your belief in your boy and all your hard work are paying off. I'm really happy for you xxxxxx
Babs
Taragun was in H&H!!!!!!!!
This year, Evie has a string of 4 she is eventing:
Pure bred Taragun 14.2 who will compete at BE100, she will retire mid season to be put in foal to a pure bred stallion and then return at the end of 2010
Part bred Twist Hoeves Nancy 14.2 who is aiming at her first one star by the end of the season
Anglo Heron de la Forge 16.3 who is is aiming for a one star by the end of the season (he's a four star horse but is now Evie's schoolmaster)
TB Feathers McGraw 16.1 who is also aiming at a one star (he's an Advanced 2 star horse but again who is a schoolmaster)
She will also be bringing our our pure homebred stallion and a young 4 year old Anglo (50:50) but the aim with them is to get them out and about not to reach a certain level
She will be riding 6 horses, 5 of which will be at least 40% Arab, two of which will be pure bred
Stallion, geldings AND MARES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and no-one has answered my question about what recognition the Premium Scheme is going to give to MARES!!!!!!!
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www.eviepeel.com |
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nn
Gold Member
England
659 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 5:56:42 PM
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Templars
Thankyou very much, and i remember when Taragun was in the H and H!
Good look to Evie for the coming season, i am sure that she will do well.
If we get anything to event i will keep an eye open for you, but at the moment we just have dressage divas to compete!
I hope that the AHS will take on board some of the coments that have been made and i am sure that denise will put forward our case to the committee. Lets keep our fingers crossed that things improve!
In the mean time we will just have to get on doing what we do best as we have always done!
Nicky
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SueN
Bronze Member
England
169 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 6:05:37 PM
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Congratulations to Nicky and Bradley.
Babs, your stock are well known throughout the country, and fully deserve everything that they have achieved.
The saddest thing is, looking through the replies from members of committees, is what little knowledge they have on the Anglo and part breds, and how little they seem to care.
If one puts oneself up for a committee, surely it is paramount to do the research before applying, and to admit that they have no knowledge of these animals is a disgrace.
These animals have been flying the flag for years. Why have they been ignored?
On a conversation with a member of the present stud book committee, I understand that they did not know the difference between section 1 and section 11 of the part bred register.  I rest my case. |
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 6:52:55 PM
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what is a puzzle is the very low entries in shows for stock with Arab blood .
I was involved with Hocon and noted the classes getting smaller each time .
Can anyone explain this paradox when most on here complain about the AHS not promoting derivitives yet the owners do not show in numbers.
There is probably a good reason which I as a pure-bred owner cannot quite understand .
I enjoy watching theAA and Pba classes but wonder what is happening. |
blue moon |
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SueN
Bronze Member
England
169 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 7:25:51 PM
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Alistair,
I think that you will find that, across the board, in most breeding classes the numbers have decreased.
However there has been a dramatic reduction of entries at the regional group shows and the national show. Could it be the failure of the society to give them the recognition and status they deserve?
I think that you would be quite amazed if the Sunray, Romarnic and Weirton to name but three studs, would combine their animals. How many Champions have these three studs produced, that have gone on to win and produce champion stock in all spheres? These are not new studs, these are well established studs, who year after year have produced outstanding stock, well known to the outside world.
Interestingly enough, all three of the above named studs have had Premium mares and stallions. The old premium system worked far better as all the emphasis was with the mare, and while I agree it is important to include stallions, in the present situation, the mare is completely forgotten.
In our own small way, our foundation PBA mare was awarded four premiums, and of her nineteen foals, she produced BSJA show jumpers, HOYS small hack (who qualified for HOYS seven years running) a Lloyds Bank in-hand qualifier, British National Champions and Reserves. |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 7:51:48 PM
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Alistair.............What puzzles me is why we are now using the word derivatives, instead of Part Bred and Anglo Arab.
What is the matter with Arab Horse Society Committees who represent the Members, and seem to be bowing and scraping to other Countries` definitions of our Anglo and Partbreds. We are British, why cant we KEEP our own terminology, which is much simpler and explains exactly what our horses ARE How many of the general public are going to understand Derivatives.!! With dog breeding, cross bred dogs are called Mongrels.....so why not go the whole hog and call our Part bred Arabs and Anglo Arabs, Mongrels!! I AM SO INCENCED BY ALL THIS
AND PUT IT TO COMMITTEE MEMBERS...HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF IT WERE THE PURE ARABS!! and whatever Country was insisting you had to change the definition, to suit their Stud Book Rules.
Over the years, the AHS Powers that be, have so alienated Anglo and Part Bred Arab Breeders, for the many reasons stated on this thread. They are showing their dissent and NOT supporting the Arab Shows, and worse still, registering their stock with other breed societies!!
Another contrubutary factor is that of recent years. The American way of producing Pure Arabians for the Showring, is being accepted and copied by a number of the top class producers here. Personally and I have experienced this fact......when asked on the telephone what did I breed and said, Anglo Arabs, the retort has often been " Oh, what those stringy little things....of little use for anything else except looking pretty on the end of a line" or comments in a similar vein. This is more and more, in recent years,the general widespread opinion of members of other breed society/associations.
I will comment no further, as this thread is about the Premium Scheme and your question is diverting from same.
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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Edited by - BabsR on 27 Feb 2009 10:20:02 PM |
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DenmoorStud
Gold Member
739 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 8:03:39 PM
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Babs, I consider myself suitably chided, and on a constant learning curve.
I believe the main reason for promotion of the Stallions to be, that after monies donated by the betting levy board ceased, and i think some one touched on this earlier in the thread, Premium Scheme was called upon to generate funds.
Stallion owners were asked to help with the promotion and did so generously.
I totally agree mares are equally important, and in recognition of this mare grading was added by presenting at prearranged venues through out the country.
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 8:29:21 PM
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Denise, appreciate your comments regarding Mares having the opportunity to present for NASTA testing and grading!! That is great for competing Mares. BUT what about the Mares that breeders have retained as breeding stock??
With competition mares, many do not retire to the paddocks until quite late in their life. Dedicated Brood Mares, cannot be discounted simply because owners have chosen to Breed with them.
If they have consistently produced the "goods" I respectfully suggest
that they are EQUAL and the Premium Scheme Committee do not treat them as `second class` when comparing their value to the gene pool. A TOP CLASS PROVEN MARE will always be a more reliable
prospect in the breeding industry, on a pro rata basis to a stallion.
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.com |
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Edited by - BabsR on 27 Feb 2009 9:30:10 PM |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 9:28:29 PM
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Hi Denise, apologies, misread your post Not NASTA testing, presented at designated venues to be assessed for suitability and grading!!
What is the examining procedure, and what would the outcome be....for instance star awards appearing on the Premium Scheme logo for successful progeny already produced ??
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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Edited by - BabsR on 27 Feb 2009 9:31:26 PM |
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DenmoorStud
Gold Member
739 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 9:37:57 PM
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I think that you may have thought my reference was to Nasta, but in fact I agree with you, and that is why these mares can and should come forward, perhaps if I use the term assessment rather than grading, is that more descriptive. We are really not so far apart as you might imagine, perhaps my terminology, could be a little better
I really hope that the AHS will reward the AA and PBA for the undoubted recognition we bring in Performance spheres to our Society |
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Hazel Cornes
Silver Member
United Kingdom
288 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2009 : 11:01:56 PM
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Alistair my reasons are:
I started breeding PBA's 17 yrs ago out of a pure bred mare and I felt the need, in the initial years, to convince the "outside equine world" of the excellence of the AA/PBA's. I now feel the situation has come full circle where I go in the "outside equine world" they are fully accepted and appreciated and now I feel the need to convince the AHS. I have rejoined the AHS, after an absence of 2 years, purely because of this forum and realizing that there is a commitment to the breed.
Why are the entries down for Reg Shows, here's my reason:
The NCPA (Northern Counties Ponies Association) have a show on 26 April and I will be taking our yearling, passported with WPCS (welsh pony & cob soc), overstamped with NPS (national pony soc), SPSS (sports pony studbook) and part bred arab (AHS). At this show there are 4 classes which this filly could be shown in.
Riding Pony Breeding (qualifier for Ponies UK Summer Champs & NCPA)
Hunter Pony Breeding (qualifier P(UK)& NCPA)
Welsh Part Bred Breeding (WPCS Bronze medal class & NCPA)
AA/PBA Breeding (qualifier for NCPA Pony of the Year)
Each of the above have a different panel judge. I have to say 4 classes will be too many, but I have the choice. At Regional Shows if there is more than one class it is normally under the same judge. At the Reg Shows it is a downward spiral, entries are not good therefore the shows cannot be expected to fund an AA/PBA Judge. Equally, with a few exceptions, the Pure Breds are not well represented at non AHS Shows - but that is another topic.
The Premium Scheme is so important and hopefully it will move forward highlighting the best of bloodlines - there are so many.
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