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Scarlet Arabian
Silver Member
England
339 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 4:46:43 PM
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under the banner of sport horse/pony breeding many breedtype/crosses are recognized,
but over all they are promoted for their performances, so dividing pba,s in to different groups does not, imo, help this.
and yes a small pony type cross is very different from a warmblood cross or a high percentage pinto arabian , for instance, but one would hope that they are all bred to do a job, from a child's pony through to an eventer/riding horse.
what needs to be shown off if you like, is the arabian heritage, regardless with the horse/pony is large or small.
just a thought!!!
Abby
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stacatto wind...... kharibe........salana A/A........julien p/b........scarlet...
whitsbury/new forest
www.scarletarabianbridles.co.uk |
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DenmoorStud
Gold Member
739 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 5:06:16 PM
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Hazel, My apologies, I neglected to answer your third question.
It is quite possible IMO that we may entice PBA with the relevant Arabian blood to come within the auspices of the AHS, We should in my view be rewarding the breeders of our PBA performance stock. I have not mentioned the Purebred
or AA as this question referred to the PBA
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Micky
Silver Member
308 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 5:10:08 PM
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Denmoor,
Where are you going to entice them from? |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 5:20:32 PM
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Agree with Micky here Denmoor, FROM WHERE?? It is already apparent, that most Performance Horses outside AHS Registration,do their utmost NOT to mention any Arabian influence in their Horses......so again I ask...how are we going to prove the benefits available to them, by overstamping with AHS??
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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Edited by - BabsR on 23 Feb 2009 5:41:36 PM |
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SueN
Bronze Member
England
169 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 5:36:09 PM
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Denmoor
Pray, what on earth is the society prepared to offer these PBA breeders, for going to the expense of over stamping, not forgetting that the society will only over stamp another breed societies paper work.
I have to say from a personal point of view, I have never heard such rubbish in my life. Leave the PBA alone, we are perfectly capable of promoting our part breds, and until the AHS come up with some logical ideas, I guess that's how it's always going to be.
I suppose that the next idea will be to split the register into different coloured animals.
I am sorry to say that the society has lost so many breeders and exhibitors through their total indifference and lack of interest from most council members. The blame lies fairly and squarely on the shoulders of the society. |
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2009 : 12:13:37 PM
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Is'nt it all a bit tribal?
Surely the core of the problem-them and us .
The Premium scheme is to promote the use of Arab blood and thereby proving that to do so will be to one's benefit.
As the American say "Where's the beef?"
Where are the great photos and publications of theses horses?
Tamarillo is the one example I can think of so where are the others? |
    
blue moon |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2009 : 12:47:09 PM
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Alistair........explain yourself, who is the "other tribe" you refer to?? The Premium Scheme and its near demise, is solely due to the lack of genuine interest from Council.
The amazing Tamarillo has done great service in promoting the importance of Arabian blood into Sport Horse and Light Horse Breeding.
There are many more out there who need to share the limelight, however, when Members contact or send info photos etc etc of their Horses achievements, that are worthy of recognition and AHS promotion.....are their efforts rewarded!! NO THEY ARE NOT!!
You only have to read the valid points raised on this thread and others, to be aware of the dissatisfaction with the "going nowhere" stagnation of the Premium Scheme.
Its about time Council allowed open meetings, instead of the antiquated "closed door system" of only Premium Scheme Committee Members. Whatever is discussed or agreed, then has to go through several layers of AHS hierarchy, and final Council approval before being taken on board.
So, what is the point, if several of the Council Members, have a negative attitude towards the Premium Scheme and forever plead poverty, when it comes to funding better promotional literature and advertisements in leading Equine Magazines ??
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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Edited by - BabsR on 24 Feb 2009 1:00:55 PM |
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2009 : 1:12:27 PM
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Babsr
All of us have different specialities but should not lose sight of the big picture without demarcation lines .
Does it really matter whether a horses has this or that % as long as it does a good job for the owner
The founding priciple of the AHS does not seem to have changed "to promote light horse breeding ">I would just like to see lots more pics like your 3rd pic of the perfect stallion for example on your signature |
blue moon |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2009 : 2:15:14 PM
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Alistair, Thank you for your compliment of our `perfect` homebred Anglo Stallion. Have to agree with you there...but then perhaps we are little biased. 
Would be only too pleased to show more pics of his succesful progeny, when I can find time, and after my effort, will AHS see fit to give the info print space in the AHS Mags?? which seems almost exclusively aimed at Pure Bred Arabs??
Somehow feel, reading between the lines, that you are making reference to the Anglo definition debate which is being discussed by the Working Party. No, I care not the percentages of Arab blood in Performance Horses, but what I most passionately DO care about and will defend, as long as I have breath, is my vehemenant disapproval
of changes suggested to the our Stud Book, to accommodate Continental imports!! of not pure bloodlines!!! Adamant on this score!! We have a register for such.
Again, this is not the thread on which to discuss this matter, so I will comment no further.
BabsR
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2009 : 2:57:05 PM
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NO THANK YOU!!!
Methinks I would quickly be known as the "Council Member from Hell", by other Council delegates as I am a bit `gobby` especially on matters I believe in  
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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DenmoorStud
Gold Member
739 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2009 : 7:14:02 PM
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Babs, Are the signature pictures shown with your AHS Premium Stallion Sunray Scelibrity, his prodgeny, if so might
we have copies for promotion please. |
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templars
Platinum Member
England
1852 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2009 : 10:29:27 PM
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I'm confused now - is this about the Premium scheme or the definition of Anglos and Part Breds?
And as for other performance horses with Arabian breeding, there are quite few out there. I can only speak for eventing because I don't know the others but there's Georgie Spence's Fachoudette, Yoshi's Kanjer Black, the Guiness's All That Jazz and our very own Heron de la Forge who has represented France and Italy and come 2nd at the World Cup in Barrocca (beating the majority of the Olympic horses in the world rankings and amassing an amazing 1,943 points).
Here's a photo of Heron with his previous rider:
Here he is with Evie:
This is Fachoudette:
This is All That Jazz who is also a Premium stallion
This is Kanjer Black
And of course, Taragun:
The reason for posting these is not to look at the registration issue it's to say that the Arabian horse can be - AND IS - a performance horse, capable of competing - and winning - at the highest levels in the world.
It doesn't matter on the gender or the registration for a performance horse and THAT is what the Premium scheme should be promoting.
Registration is a totally separate discussion (and a very valid one that must be addressed if we are to preserve the heritage and dedication that has been put into the precious bloodlines).
But, Premium horses (stallions AND mares) should be performance animals capable of passing on those vital performance genes. The Arabian flag should be flown high and with pride out in the performance world and the valid contribution of Arabian characteristics should be something to be proud of not something to be hidden. You know what, it should be something that is actively sought out by breeders. If we get the promotion of the breed right, people should be queuing for Arabian bred horses, not looking sideways and saying "I think my horse has a tiny bit of - hush, whisper - Arab blood in it"
I agree totally that the council needs to take its nose out of the show ring and be proud of our performance horses. But until there is a recognition within our own breed society that our bloodlines are to be cherished, then we as a breed will fail to make the impact that is needed and it will be left to the dedication of a few to continue to fly the flag  |
   www.eviepeel.com    |
Edited by - templars on 24 Feb 2009 10:48:39 PM |
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weirton
Gold Member
873 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2009 : 09:51:43 AM
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Exactly my point Templars. This thread is about improving the Premium Scheme, a big enough job in itself I would have thought, without interfering in the registration question.
Maybe if the 'relevant people' were to get on with their job and stop trying to take over the whole AHS we might see some results!
Great pictures, by the way.
Please don't keep knocking the showing scene though , there's room for all, and it wouldn't be healthy if we all wanted the same from our horses. A premium stallion (or mare) should be of decent enough make and shape to be able to produce both show and working horses. We used to find ponies for top junior showjumpers with potential to make (and a lot did) British Teams, but we always chose a good quality and well conformed animal just in case it didn't make the grade and that gave it the chance to go on in another field. I'd also add that the majority were of Arab cross breeding.
Jean |
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templars
Platinum Member
England
1852 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2009 : 10:07:58 AM
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Jean
I definitely don't mean to knock the showing scene and if it came across that way, then sorry. The showing world is important and you are right, at a certain level, horses should be able to do both.
But there should be a balance - both are important valuable contributions. My point is that we should embrace both, not be blinkered but sadly that's how it feels - that the performance side is not seen as valuable or valid.
We need the AHS to promote the performance side as much as the showing side. |
www.eviepeel.com |
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2009 : 10:31:31 AM
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WWeirton
Second picture
lovely horse
who he?
Was he the result of the premium scheme or is he a Premium stallion? |
blue moon |
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kirsty
Gold Member
United Kingdom
713 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2009 : 1:30:46 PM
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Hi
My stallion Yawl Hillbilly is a product of the premium scheme and he is multi talented. He will be eventing this season with Aaron Millar and Endurance riding with me
Kirsty |
   eric g jones  |
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2009 : 1:43:26 PM
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| do you have a pic of your horsepls to show the proof of the scheme .? |
blue moon |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2009 : 1:55:52 PM
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Hi Kirsty......your stallion looks to be a good competition/performance type  .....will be watching his progress.
Are you planning on taking him forward for 2009 NASTA Testing, to gain his grading and become an AHS Premium Stallion??
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.com
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weirton
Gold Member
873 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2009 : 2:13:45 PM
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Alistair, The photograph is of AA stallion King's Flight BNC, leading sire at UK Ch 5 yrs running until the year after his death, and a premium stallion for a short time before his premature death. He sired 10 British National Champions that I can think of off-hand and a lot of his stock went out of the narrow confines of the Arab world to follow other careers. His sons and daughters have gone on to become great producers themselves in many spheres.
Being a premium stallion had no noticible effect on the quantity or quality of the mares that came to him unfortunately.
Jean |
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2009 : 2:57:51 PM
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Lovely horse with a fantastic record.I heard of him when I first came into Arabs and have seen your stock now I remember being shown around the circuit .
Lovely lines ,you must be proud . |
blue moon |
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nn
Gold Member
England
659 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2009 : 3:55:42 PM
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Hi Alistar
I think my 6 yr old stallion is proof that the premium scheme does work!
He is by Fairlyn Gemini a premium stallion out of koralle who was a premium mare with the AHS but also an Elite mare with the TBF.Geminis mother was a HIS premium mare by a HIS premium stallion and Koralles parents are both elite trakhners
Ranger is now a premium stallion himself and we have high hopes for his offspring.
In my sig picks you have
1. Ranger premium stallion
2.Gemini premium stallion
3.Ranger
4.Lady Arabella premium mare (hopefully if i ever get the paper work!!!!!)
5. Romarnic romeo premium youngster
6. Romarnic rigel Premium youngster
7. Ranger
There are lots of premium younstock out there doing the jobs they were bred for but they have no way of promoting them selves!
Evi you can add "Statham Sabu" to your eventers list. He is an AHS premium youngster and has been round Badminton, Burghley and Blenheim.
His full sister is a very good grade B showjumper who won the Martin Daws challenge as a five year old and her breeder turned down a blank cheque for her!
Babs i dont know if you remember but for years the premium youngstock didnt get there papers stamped, the covering certificates were stamped premium but when the foals were registered they didnt have anything on there papers to say that they were premium youngsters.
As these horses grow up and get sold the new owners dont know they have a premium youngster!
So what chance do we have off ever finding them and what they are up to in order to promote them as arabs.
I think that it is all very sad, and as a breeder i think somedays "Why bother".
Let you all into a little secret........My anglo arabs all have trakhner passports that are overstamped by the AHS.
Nicky
www.romarnicstud.co.uk |
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templars
Platinum Member
England
1852 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2009 : 4:03:54 PM
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Nicky
...just as mine will be - registered with another society but overstamped by AHS (even my pure breds)
thanks for the info on Sabu - he has an impressive record and again by Fairlyn Gemini.
Why are we having to pool our knowledge and dig for information ourselves - why isn't this information readily available? Why is no-one tracking the performance records of premium animals? Why is no-one tracking performance records full stop!
ps Nicky - do you know anyone at Staham Stud? There's a cracking pony, Statham Aristocrat that does all Pony Club events ridden by Helen Miller. It's a liver chestnut gelding and it looks very typey. Helen isn't sure if he's part bred or Anglo - he's about 14.2 and absolutely brilliant at all three phases but especially the dressage. I've been trying to find out who bred him so that I could put Helen back in contact with the breeder and she can fly the flag!! |
www.eviepeel.com |
Edited by - templars on 25 Feb 2009 4:24:06 PM |
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Hazel Cornes
Silver Member
United Kingdom
288 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2009 : 8:36:31 PM
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Statham Aristocrat is listed on the BSPS (British Show Pony Society) Area 2a (Cheshire) website under Archives as having been placed 3rd in the Points Awards for the Novice 143 cms (14 hds) WHP (working hunter pony) for 2005 with a different jockey.
On the AHS Premium Scheme website the "Achievements" page is a "Roundup for 2004" updated 5 October 2005. I think this page would be a good place to start listing more recent successes. Also Racing and Endurance have pages (with 2007 results) of their own, I think it is time the other disciplines also had pages and not just for lists of results but with pictures and information similar to Templars posts (and others). All affiliated results can be verified.
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DenmoorStud
Gold Member
739 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2009 : 10:10:38 PM
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This is just the type of information we need to collect, in order to promote. Please send it to Windsor House marked
Premium Scheme stock. it will then be available for our next meeting. Alternatively you can email direct to denise.beken@btinternet.com.
Paperwork for Premium Scheme stock should be stamped,for the precise reason that we would like to keep track of progeny, and also to make owners aware of that fact,that their horse/pony is sired by a premium stallion if this is not happening it needs to be addressed.
There is a logo which can be used by premium scheme stock to make them easily identifiable it depicks a horse jumping over the AHS again this has suffered through lack of promotion, so I would like to draw it to your attention.
The same logo with the addition of 5 stars is awarded to stallions who have passed the Nasta performance test of which they should be extremely proud |
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