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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Mar 2009 : 2:01:10 PM
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Alistair, t`would be great to hope so, but ONLY the offspring of Premium Stallions or Mares are recorded as Premium Youngstock and therefore, eligible to compete in Premium Scheme Youngstock classes (if AHS ever see fit to re-introduce them at the National Show).........YES THEY SHOULD!!!
At maturity, four years or over, they have to go out and prove themselves as per the AHS criteria to become Premium Mares or Stallions, or through at least two of their progeny fulfilling the performance requirements, to enable them to become fully fledged as Premium Mares or Stallions
Hope that hasn`t thrown water on your fire!!
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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Edited by - BabsR on 10 Mar 2009 2:10:37 PM |
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2009 : 10:08:19 PM
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Not at all Babs
It is an area I have neglected and it is interesting to learn new things
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blue moon |
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2009 : 09:37:42 AM
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Idea
HOCON is indoors over two days this year which means
The outside facilities may be available for all the Premium breeders to put on their own breed show
Professional showjumps ,lots of in-hand rings and ridden areas plus a major Arab event taking place at the same time
Which would all add up to the largest Total Arab event in Uk and from what has been said on here the largest descendants event in the country
There are enough of you out there to do it and show the flag .
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blue moon |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2009 : 10:16:07 AM
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Alistair..your suggestion hints of AHS bullets for you to fire??!!
I may have it wrong and I`m sure you will correct me, but were you not President of the AHS some years back??
Is this confirmation that the Arab Horse Society, is now, not only disinteresteed in the Anglo and Part Bred Arab Members but also wants to palm off the Premium Scheme and pass on THEIR RESPONSIBILITY to those MEMBERS who have put in years of effort and expense, trained, tested and graded Stallions and Mares to support the Premium Scheme
Your suggestion sounds a great idea........but it is the AHS who need to organise and finance such a show for Premium Performance Stock they OWE it to their Pure Arab/Anglo Arab/Part Bred Arab Members!!!
It becomes evermore clear, the Arab Horse Society is ONLY interested in In-Hand and Ridden Show Arabians.........and hard cheese for those Members who choose to "perform" with their Horses!! What Premium Scheme Members want, is representation by way of Premium Scheme Classes and awards at our National Flagship Show.
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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Edited by - BabsR on 12 Mar 2009 10:58:03 AM |
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2009 : 11:49:50 AM
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Wrong Babsr
Wrong Alistair
I have no deal with the AHS other than being a member.
It was just an idea of how to showcase your stock and meet some of the gripes on here ,.
Entenched and myopic views do not get anywhere .
I now think -why bother? |
blue moon |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2009 : 12:29:28 PM
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ooooooopppppppssss..Apologies Alistair
You are right, entrenched and myopic views...get us nowhere!!
However, year upon year of disullusionment, does have the effect of making one, think, WHY BOTHER!!
There is always a hope....and to this end, have myself made effort, both as far as the Premium Scheme and Premium Stock and Sport Arabians are concerned.....any ideas, suggestions, input...have all been treated with negativity!!
As you say, you are a Pure Arab Owner, so have possibly not experienced the frustrations of Anglo/Part Bred Arab Breeders and Premium Scheme Members who have chosen to go out and Fly the Flag, proving their horses are not just a pretty face.
Little or no recognition or ackowlegement of these successes does in
fact have effect on ones vision of the future way forward and the `bigger picture`
P.S. Always remember enjoying your mare Lalique (or have I got that wrong too)?? when ridden in her early successes by Haley Budge....my idea of a stunning arabian mare
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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Edited by - BabsR on 12 Mar 2009 12:42:51 PM |
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Micky
Silver Member
308 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2009 : 1:43:18 PM
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Babs,
How right you are with your feelings. As you say year after year we try so hard to get things done for the anglo and part breds, and every time these ideas or suggestions fall on deaf ears. After a while one does feel like giving up, then something happens, and off we all go again - fighting.
What are we to do. We have the premium scheme problems, and lets not forget the anglo section 11. I wonder if anything has happened with the working party!!!! |
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Treasure
Silver Member
England
442 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2009 : 10:29:42 PM
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| Why not go to the AGM and raise the question there about the Premium Scheme? That is the only chance for members to ask Council their questions. It's usually an interesting day out! |
Carolyn
Johaara Arabians |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 10:18:48 AM
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Yes Treasure....already preparing my list of questions and as the AGM is quite near to us, will endevour to get there to see if we can get satisfactory responses and positive decisions, particularly with regard to The Premium Scheme.
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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CINDERS
Gold Member
England
750 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 1:40:49 PM
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Firstly I am not a council member and have no real interest in the scheme but some of the remarks are inflammatory to say the least. I have only purebreds, none of which are Premium animals and if I want them promoted I have to do it myself and at my own expense not wait around for the AHS to do so.
I quite like Alistairs ideas and think that those with the passion should get off their backsides and do something about it. Membership of any Society is a two way relationship why do we always hear cries of "the AHS is doign nothing" rather than lets ask them to support us in getting something off the ground ourselves.
As for Anglos and Part Breds I am sure that other Group SHow organisers will support me in saying that the owners and breeders simply do not support us to the extent that the classes at some group shows are run at a loss when taking into account judges expenses etc etc and certainly in the case of HoCoN their continuance is in the balance. Give us other classes you say, we did that at great expense and did you support us, not likely
Sorry for the rant but I have a real problem with people who expect other to do everything for them.
The arena at Towerlands was last I heard available on HoCoN weekend and we would be more than happy to help facilitate a premium show.
Yvonne |
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 1:58:46 PM
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Just seen a brilliant advert in H&H today with a photo of an Anglo, I think eventing or jumping. Smashing stallion and being promoted by the owner.
I have a Purebred stallion and don't expect anyone to help me promote him, my long term aim is to get him Premium Listed, by doing that I hope it will encourage some non Arab mares along with Purebred mares to use him and look at him in different light other than his in-hand show wins. He would have proved himself as a useful horse and the premium scheme for me is just a way of telling people to look at what he has done.
I don't view the Premium Scheme anything other than another tool for me to help promote my own stallion who has proved himself capable to be on it.
Have I got it wrong?
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Edited by - SueB on 13 Mar 2009 1:59:35 PM |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 2:52:49 PM
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Cinders......I HAVE got off my backside and have MADE effort, on SEVERAL occasions during my Membership!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In response to a call from the Premium Scheme Committee, for Members to put forward ideas and suggestions which may better the Premium Scheme. I organised a meeting which included three Anglo Premium Stallion Owners, and also an Arab and PBA Stallions Owner. The numerous topics were debated and the meeting ran on for some four hours. Minutes were taken. I produced a typed formal document which was forwarded to the then Premium Scheme Chairperson and was informed that the document would be presented and discussed at the Premium Scheme Meeting which was due to take place.
The Chairperson confirmed she had presented the document which had been formerley discussed. Nothing else came of that and after several phone calls, enquiring about the outcome, I was informed that my document HAD NOT been presented at that meeting!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So, Cinders, would you have been happy with such flippant negativety, I think not.
Later, and still passionate about the Premium Scheme, I set about staging a Performance Show for Anglo/PBA`s I designed the Logo, printed a draft schedule
etc etc and approached AHS for sponsorship, by way of Premium Rosettes....no response, no interest!!!! Unfortunately, due to difficulty getting sponsorship, sadly I had to shelve my project
I would make it clear,I do not EXPECT the AHS Premium Scheme to promote my stallion. I have happily paid the £200 to have my stallion listed on the Premium Scheme Advert Page in previous years. Having my own website my Premium Stallion is self promoting, through his many succesful progeny, and in the Anglo Arabian Circles, he is well known.
What I am unhappy about is that Members have sent information and photos of their horses successes, only to find the info is never posted on the Premium Scheme Website.....if you look you will see that the last update was 2003/5!! As you say effort has to be on BOTH SIDES. It was the AHS who introduced the Premium Scheme, so it surely is their responsibility to keep it up to date, and to keep Members informed.
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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Edited by - BabsR on 13 Mar 2009 7:12:50 PM |
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 3:35:34 PM
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Later, and still passionate about the Premium Scheme, I set about staging a Performance Show for Anglo/PBA`s I designed the Logo, printed a draft schedule
etc etc and approached AHS for sponsorship, by way of Premium Rosettes....no response, no interest!!!! Unfortunately, due to difficulty getting sponsorship, sadly I had to shelve my project
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Sadly Babs your efforts of trying to stage what looked like an excellent event is proof enough that the the Anglo and Part bred owners/breeders are unable to support anything making events such as this not viable.
Maybe there are just not enough around to do so.
Just having a class or three at a breed show must surely be the only way forwards.
The purebred owner/breeders over the years have always put their hands in their pockets and no doubt will continue to do so. |
Edited by - SueB on 13 Mar 2009 4:02:34 PM |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 4:19:32 PM
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........and if you cant afford to put your hand in your pocket, over and above your Membership Fees, Registration Fees, Entry Fees...it seems the Arab Horse Society is reluctant to provide classes for you, when times are hard!!
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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jas
Junior Member
46 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 5:22:29 PM
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"The purebred owner/breeders over the years have always put their hands in their pockets and no doubt will continue to do so".
SueB
What exactly do you mean by the statement above? It infers that the pure bred people have been subsidising the Anglo and Part breds. |
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 5:38:27 PM
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No. not subsidising, but always seem to be asked to sponsor, support and as I once pointed out on this forum on another thread, place adverts in magazines which help everyone.
I did despair at trying so very hard to gain advertising from Part bred and anglo studs for the magazine, only to be blazoned out of existence, it seems the purebred owners have a different take on it to me. They do put their hands in their pockets and pay up for advertising which in turn helps everyone, including part breds and anglos throughout the UK.
Like others who are now posting we get upset at seeing a division and it is not needed or wanted by anyone, but you are making the division yourselves.
Many purebred owners and breeders started off with part breds or anglos, these horses are needed, loved and wanted, but why should they have special treatment? and why don't they support events or sponsor when asked? |
Edited by - SueB on 13 Mar 2009 5:39:55 PM |
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jas
Junior Member
46 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 6:21:07 PM
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SueB,
I beg to differ with your opinion of Anglo and part bred owners and breeders. They do advertise, but to the outside world, who are mainly the people who use these stallions. I can understand your frustration with the lack of interest with advertising in the magazine, but from their point of view, it would fall on deaf ears. This has been proven time and again.
Yes, I'm sure many of you started off with Anglo and part breds, and some remain with them as a choice.
As for sponsorship, we do sponsor a great deal, and support the events worth supporting. The fact that it might be done quietly is up to the individual.
There is and always has been a division - it has been there for countless years, and the fact that the Anglo and part breds go out and compete in the outside world, do extremely well, inform our breed society, and are ignored, is one of the reasons for the decline of entries at the national and regional group shows.
All we are trying to do is to get back what was once there for us and if it means ruffling a few feathers, so be it. |
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 6:53:47 PM
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Jas, why does it fall on deaf ears, tell me please. I still can't get my head around the fact that on offer, from Val Cridge at the time, was free editorial and a subsidised advert in the Arab Horse News. The pure bred breeders had not been offered this.
It is a great shame to me that what ever was 'once there for all of us' can not be discussed and ideas put to Council so they can maybe start to get things happening again for you.
So sad to think you feel there is and always has been a division. I never felt it with the part breds.
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 6:56:02 PM
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I can certainly speak for the Anglo Breeders and am incensed by the betrayal of our Arab Horse Society representatives, who have been trying to force the EU or whatever Political ruling, upon us, and allow Part Bred Anglo Arabs into the British Anglo Arab Stud Book.
STUD BOOKS ARE FOR THE RECORDING OF PURE BLOODLINES. Horses of mixed blood breeding, are entered in Part Bred Registers
I put it to the many Pure Arab Breeders of this Country " How would you feel if your Breed Society, was asking you to vote in support of allowing the Shagya Arab as an Arab sec.11 into the Pure Arab Stud Book" ???..........and do not shrug off the fact that it won`t happen!!
The Anglo sec11 debate has been rolling on for some FIFTEEN YEARS
HOW STRESSFUL IS THAT??? to the Dedicated Anglo Breeders/Members
Even though our Anglos are not registered in Weatherbys GSB, at least for any interested body, who looks on allbreedpedigree or Thoroughbred Database our horses are recorded as Anglo Arabian Thoroughbred. Weatherbys acknowledge their Pure Bloodlines. What a pity our own breed society seem quite happy to allow the inclusion of None Pure Bloodlines, to contaminate our Anglo Arab Stud Book.
IMO this is most likely the biggest factor....why Anglo Breeders have turned their back on the AHS....My dearest wish is that we could once again, witness the days when Spectators were enjoying the huge classes of superb Anglo Arabs and Part Bred Arabs at our National and Regional Shows.
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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Edited by - BabsR on 13 Mar 2009 7:08:28 PM |
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jas
Junior Member
46 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 7:13:36 PM
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Sue,
In answer to your question "why does it fall on deaf ears". I can only answer by saying that repeated correspondence has been sent to the powers that be, suggesting ideas etc. Very few, if any have had the courtesy of a reply.
Is it any wonder, that Anglo and part bred owners and breeders are totally fed up.
If you consider that the Anglo section 11 debate first rose its ugly head fifteen years ago, since then we have been bullied and told we would be sued unless we accepted the French definition. It is only this year that a working party has been set up. We have been asked to vote four times on this issue, and each time it has been rejected. What part of the word No does the AHS not understand, and yet it is still continuing.
Is it any wonder that many of us, and I refer to long term breeders and members, are considering leaving. If a large majority of Anglo and PBA members left the society, would that not affect the charitable status? |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 7:27:12 PM
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An appropriate reply jas.....FOUR TIMES MEMBERS HAVE VOTED AND SAID ...NO!!!  Clearly, the AHS IS DEAF!!!
Yes, do believe if Anglo and Part Bred Arab Breeders turned their back and walked away from the AHS....this would certainly have effect on the `charitable status` of the Society
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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Edited by - BabsR on 13 Mar 2009 7:28:08 PM |
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DenmoorStud
Gold Member
739 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 8:04:50 PM
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Babs,I would like to point out that the AA sec 2 debate now has a thread of its own. This thread is for the AHS Premium Scheme discussion.
The Premium Scheme is part of the AHS charitable status, I do hope this answers your question. |
   
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 8:32:02 PM
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Yes.....I am quite aware this is the Premium Scheme Thread!!
...However, my posts do have bearing on the Premium Scheme debate in that several of the Premium Scheme Stallions are Anglo Arabs, and therefore affected by the AA sec 2 debate
Yes....I am aware that the Premium Scheme is part of the Charitable status of the AHS, so pray advise the apparent disinterest in keeping Members `informed` by regular updates of the website, last update being 2003/5
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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Edited by - BabsR on 13 Mar 2009 8:47:13 PM |
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 8:43:50 PM
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jas,
Do you feel you represent all or most of the Anglo and Part bred breeder/owners then please? if so what about printing off this thread, which you can do and take it with you to the AGM.
I'm not certain, but perhaps the Premium Scheme organisers don't have internet connection. You could represent the unhappy members at the AGM and let the AHS know what the problems are, would this be a good idea?
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DenmoorStud
Gold Member
739 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 8:59:10 PM
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| Babs, I would be interested to know which Stallions you refer, as far as I am aware none of them will be affected by sec 2. and if that is the case please post on the appropriate thread, in order that there is no confusion. Thank you |
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