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templars
Platinum Member
England
1852 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Mar 2009 : 9:33:28 PM
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Sorry Demoor but that isn't what we need.
If I'm right, the event Babs is talking about is an Arab performance show to celebrate the Arab stud books (pure, Anglo and part) and not to be diluted by other breeds that have their own stud book.
I think what you have tried to do with the Arab Trakhener Event is really good but it's not the flagship performance event that we need.
For those of us competing at peformance disciplines, we are up against other breeds of horse every single time we go out, we don't need a show to perform at, we do it week in week out. What we need is an event where all the horses are AHS registered only so we can compare against our breed and reward the Premium horses and their offspring.
What you have created has its role but it's like putting Salukis and Whippets or Scotties and Westies or Weimaraners and Vislas in the same class. True they may be of the same category (sight hounds, terriers, gundogs) but each is very different.
What is so wrong with an Arab performance event? As Alistair says, that would be a sight to behold - our performance horses showing what they are good at. When I read Alistair's comment about HOCON, I must admit the first impression made me go cold because I don't want my performance mare ridden by a judge. It would make a lovely spectacle as their own riders rode them around but I would hate to be judged by someone who isn't used to riding a top performance athlete (and that is not to denigrate our judges but trust me, a super fit three day event horse is a very different creature from a ridden showing horse - I know because we transformed our mare, and believe me they are so, so different). It's a bit like comparing an excellent red wine with champagne - both are excellent but treat the champagne incorrectly and it will literally blow up!
ps what about a quick whip round so that we can club together and get the AHS some headed paper so that they can formally write to all the horses that have been awarded premiums but haven't been officially told - when I wrote last night, I was aware of 2 - we're up to 5 now!
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Mrs Vlacq
Platinum Member
Wales
3776 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2009 : 9:41:51 PM
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Just on your judge ride comment - a large partbred of ours was Event Fit with his new owner (all the fittening roads etc done by 8yr old girl btw) and on a spare weekend they took him to a 'local ahs' show (a big one in terms of ahs shows) where the judge commented on the best ride she had had in ages, not just on the day, and owner then rang us to ask 'what was this Cerif thingy all about???'
A good judge knows a good ride and the ones with wider experience would ride taz and her peers very well
Our group ran 'fit horse classes' judged by a judge and a vet - really popular for 2 yrs (lots of endurance people also showing and loved this class). Then support dwindled and it was dropped - shame!! |
    
- V Khazad - V Calacirya & V Sulime - Quarida(L) - V Boogie Knights - V Hamra Tofiq |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2009 : 9:43:38 PM
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Templars..hit the nail squarely on the head.....exactly the point I was trying to make  We want an Event exclusively aimed at AHS Registered Pure/Anglo and Part Bred Arabs....A Breed Event!!
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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NPA Arabians
Moderator
United Kingdom
2980 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2009 : 9:58:00 PM
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I have been reading this with interest!
Forgive me - if i have got a bit lost along the way!
- you would like to see an AHS one-day event?, and? a "performance show" (do you think this should be tagged onto another event? or stand alone?)
I am willing to take any suggestions to the next shows & events committee meeting and see if we can come up with anything! (not making any promises thou!) do you think it would have enough support to be finiancially viable? - or would we need sponsors?
I must admit to not knowing an awful lot about the Premium scheme! (have been and looked at the website on a number of occasions - but as you say it is out of date!) - I will rectify this and "research \ read up" on it before i comment any further! on this bit!
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Jayne Armstrong - NPA Arabians
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2009 : 10:22:29 PM
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Hi Jayne
As explained....the first event could be run in conjuction with the National Show..on the third day. If the existing schedle is condensed
there is no reason why the third day could then be exclusively for an AHS One day Event. Dressage, Show Jumping and Cross Country (to emulate CC section natural fences as with Working Hunter jumps could be erected )
Whilst I appreciate AHS hold Show Jumping and Dressage classes at the National....these are held in back rings away from the concentration of Spectators.
The Whole of the Main Arena could be used with grandstand seating
The Performance Event needs to be made an`important` and integral part of the National Show and should prove to be a great spectacle and awarding British National Performance Championship Status to successful Competitors.
Other Arenas could cater for clear round show jumping, and novice Working Hunter classes, to encourage very novice horse and rider.
entries paid on the day.
Probably will need sponsorship. SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE PULLED OUT OF THE HAT, to try and halt the ever declining entries at our National Show. If you dont try it....you will never know!!
As prevously stated, I am happy to donate a super trophy for the
Supreme BNC Arabian Sporthorse. Feel sure there would be others only to willing to sponsor Trophies
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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Edited by - BabsR on 06 Mar 2009 10:31:50 PM |
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DenmoorStud
Gold Member
739 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2009 : 10:34:16 PM
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| This event is a new concept and will take time for some to fully understand, but it is all about working together, for the greater good, and this is what the British Equestrian Federation are calling for societies to do, we intend to answer that call, having hauled the AHS Premium Scheme over the coals for lack of promotion, frankly I find the attitude toward this event surprising, and to use Alister's term some what tribal.IMO any thing that promotes Arabian bloodlines can only be of value, and attacking anyone who has a view that does not coincide with yours is in IMO out of order. |
   
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2009 : 10:52:18 PM
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Denmoor.... We have every right to criticise the shortcomings of the Premium Scheme and committee Members, for the many reasons stated within these pages.
No one has attacked the Arab Trakehner Event....and no, our comments are not tribal!!
What our Performance Members WANT is an Exclusive Event for our Breed Society`s registered Pure/Anglo and Part Bred Arabs to compete against each other, and to add a further dimension to our National Show. If successful, maybe further events will be organised
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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templars
Platinum Member
England
1852 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2009 : 11:36:35 PM
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Just to clarify: when I have used the term "event", I don't mean one day event, but I don't want to use the word "show" either (because the whole point of it is to move away from ridden showing)
What I mean is a series of competition classes of dressage, show jumping and working hunter (or portable cross country fences). The emphasis to be on performance, not conformation, for AHS registered horses only. |
www.eviepeel.com |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2009 : 11:42:27 AM
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With the current economic climate it makes sense to now introduce Performance Arabian classes at the National Show. Breeders will be cutting back, ..so less foals next year, which will ultimately lead to sparse youngstock entries, particularly in the Anglo/PBA in the short term
In view of this..and with owners probably turning their attention towards riding and enjoying their horses.....feel the timing is spot on to cater for Riding Members. Offering them the opportunity to compete and show what their Arabians are capable of and the chance to gain British National Performance Arabian Status.....is an added incentive, and may well lead to an increase in Membership.
Methinks, such a competition would inspire young riders, who find the ridden showing classes, perhaps lacking in excitement.
Having given the idea considerable thought, I passionately feel, such an inclusion in the AHS National Show Schedule, will, in the long term, encourage Breeders to consider the importance of using Performance Bloodlines...it IS possible to breed beautiful horses of the highest order, that are also capable of competing with the best...whatever the ridden discipline.
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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Edited by - BabsR on 07 Mar 2009 11:52:52 AM |
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SueN
Bronze Member
England
169 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2009 : 11:54:05 AM
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Babs
I totally agree with your idea. I was a little bit confused as to where you would put the cross country fences, without ruining the rings, but if portable fences can be obtained, fantastic, and what a wonderful spectacle it would make.
Obviously the prime time to stage this would be at the National Show, but it would need an awful lot of publicity to pull in outside spectators, but I do think it could be done.
To accommodate such an event, they could easily combine all the Anglo and Part bred ridden and in hand classes until numbers increased, but not loosing any of the Championships.
No doubt that I will be shot down in flames, but I think all the classes that are no longer viable should be dropped. The money saved on ring hire and judges could go towards this new event. |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2009 : 12:43:05 PM
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Thanks Sue.....Advertising could be through AHS and Premium Scheme Websites and all AHS Group Spring Show Schedules and also be included in the AHS Premium Scheme advert which is to appear in Horse Deals Mag
Obviously with the aid of Computers, getting the `word` around is no longer a mammoth task. As the Premium Scheme Website is long overdue for an overhaul and update....then advertising the Arabian Performance classes, and posting a `draft schedule` would give interested parties some idea of the format.
Agree with you regarding the combining of Anglo and Part Bred Arab classes WITHOUT the loss of the BN Championships, Splitting classes if necessary, when entries are received.
Quite a large number of Exhibitors/Spectators stay over for the three days...might well encourage more spectators to stay if only initially, out of curiosity to `see how it goes`!!
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Really do think Main Ring exhibition has to be imperative, with Grandstand viewing. All three elements of the competition
could be accommodated and viewed, running concurrently. Portable WH fences could be hired to give experience of Cross Country Natural Fences
The competition could have classes for Pure Bred Arabians and Anglo/PBA. Also a Junior Riders Class.
A lot to think about and organise.....but worth a trial run and hopefully if successful,may well be an integral part of Future AHS National Show....and could in turn, be taken on board by the Group Shows.
"The times, they are changing".....Ridden classes are ever more coming to the fore in show schedules!!
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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Edited by - BabsR on 07 Mar 2009 12:50:11 PM |
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weirton
Gold Member
873 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2009 : 12:50:33 PM
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When we started Wales ans West Arab Show, back in the 1970's we incorporated a cross country course and show jumping in the main ring. Hm. What goes around comes around! And new ways are not always the best.
Jean |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2009 : 1:00:18 PM
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Hi Jean.....did exhibit at the Wales and West during the Mid Seventies a couple of times, and can`t remember the CC Show jumping in the main arena.
Was it not a success? Do you think such an endevour would be best received as a stand alone Competition. My reason for saying give main ring viewing is that at the National, the individual Dressage Show Jumping classes are tucked away in minor rings and do not seem to attract good spectator attendance
Your valued comments and suggestions, from your experience would be most welcome in this aspect
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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Edited by - BabsR on 07 Mar 2009 1:32:29 PM |
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SueN
Bronze Member
England
169 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2009 : 1:12:46 PM
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Quite agree Jean. Sometimes the old ways are the best, but in this case, are we not combining the old with the new?
The first running of any event has to be of a high standard, you could not allow jumps to be 70cms, isn't that what the Jacks do in the agility at Crufts?
Publicity would have to be included in the main horse magazines, not just confined to AHS members, via groups etc. |
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weirton
Gold Member
873 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2009 : 1:30:05 PM
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Babs, Sorry , I didn't make that clear. The showjumping was in the main ring and the CC was in the field which has its entrance by the house. One year we tried it as a two day show and although it was very sucessful when we handed it over to the Welsh Group to run, they decided they couldn't get enough help so it was abandoned. It's difficult to judge what reaction it would get now, as then all the classes were huge. I must say that we were amazed at the height the horses were jumping and in the Gamblers Stakes there was a fence not much short of 4'9" and several tackled it sucessfully. Just as an aside we also had gymkhana classes and I well remember Pat Coward on Midnight Madness in the musical sacks and a very young Emma Maxwell in a jumping class. Sorry I digress.
Sue I agree 70cm classes are an insult but to gain revenue why not have a clear round jumping. It's always a good money spinner.
Jean |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2009 : 1:56:18 PM
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Thanks for that Jean...Wow 4`9" but then we are speaking Arabians, Anglo/Part Bred Arabs, whom I have echoed before are very capable over fences
Agree Sue.....Fences must be at a competetive height, but as we wish to encourage as many Exhibitors to compete, make the fences challenging but not overfacing in the Junior and Novice section.
speaking of which, how many classes needed??
maybe.... Junior, Novice, Intermediate and Open
Jean also agrees, to run an all day clear round competition (pay as you enter) which would serve as a practice warm up round for the Competition. Rosette for clear round and perhaps changing the height of the fence mid-day. Feel sure a volunteer or two would come forward, to take monies and give rosettes (usually a good little money spinner on the day)
 Sorry about the distraction....can just visualise Pat Coward and Midnight Madness, competing in the sack race...those were the days when showing was fun!!!
Back to the matter in hand.....the Show must go on
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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Edited by - BabsR on 07 Mar 2009 2:04:05 PM |
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2009 : 09:18:24 AM
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looking at the ad in HorseDeals
I am puzzled about the qualification for mares in the scheme.
I own Lalique who was the Supreme overall Ridden ,BNC,Champion mare at HOYS,competed at BD and won British Arabian Championship etc etc
as well as BNC res At Malvern in-hand ,1st at Aachen,Top Ten USA etc
So would she be a Premium mare? |
    
blue moon |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2009 : 10:21:40 AM
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Certainly looks that way Alistair......Best contact the Premium Scheme Committee, as site and info well outdated. They may be able to confirm her eligibility. Have not seen the Horse Deals PS ad.
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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Edited by - BabsR on 09 Mar 2009 10:27:00 AM |
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Hazel Cornes
Silver Member
United Kingdom
288 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2009 : 10:47:54 AM
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Alistair I presume the mare on NED named Lalique DS is your mare with her BD points. Have you thought of entering her achievements in the section where it says "No User Entered Details" and also a pic. Again it is unfortunate that her and all the other horses with arab breeding still need their pedigrees listed.
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2009 : 12:47:01 PM
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Forgive my ignorance Hazel .
What is NED Please? |
blue moon |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
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Hazel Cornes
Silver Member
United Kingdom
288 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2009 : 1:37:28 PM
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Hope I'm presuming correctly that you haven't been on National Equine Database, so Alistair here's how to do it:
website is nedonline.co.uk (obviously put in the www.)
Free Registration - click to register
Once registered go to top right of home page
Find Equine - enter Lalique DS (presuming that yours!)
Lalique's page will come up
Click "Assciate yourself with this equine" and if you are you and she is she you should be able to do this!
Back to Passport Page and next to Passport is No User Entered Details, click on this and upload pic and type in any info.
There is already a link for Lalique DS for her performance BD - click Reports on this Equine, then Performance by Discipline.
If you want to try a couple of mine, in Find Equine put Antsar Maria and or Antsar Eddie - because Maria has yet to get performance records I put her SPSS Grading and show record up, Eddie has BD results. |
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
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Hazel Cornes
Silver Member
United Kingdom
288 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2009 : 6:42:56 PM
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| Lalique is beautiful and especially when I click on her photo and it enlarges. Very interesting to read her successes Alistair now you need to apply for her Premium Status. |
Edited by - Hazel Cornes on 09 Mar 2009 6:43:35 PM |
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2009 : 10:57:51 AM
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Thank you Hazel she is a great horse to live with too .
So if I or any other owner applies for Permium status we will want to know the benefits of so doing .
Are the progeny then Premium ie would ALI ABBAS for example be a premium stallion?
Anyway you make a good point on the pedigrees .
Are the Society missing a trick in not taking advantage of yet another way to promote Arab blood .
We really have to fight our corner in theses tough times -all of us - to make the breed noticed. |
blue moon |
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