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Athena
Silver Member
England
442 Posts |
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katefox1812
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1612 Posts |
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marionpack
Gold Member
England
1073 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Sep 2007 : 11:01:48 AM
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Thanks for that Alexia, I have been in touch with the Gadden-Browns as they have a mare our of Sayada who is my boys mare, so hopefully I may be lucky
Marion |
Berkshire
   
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kizzandra
Bronze Member
Scotland
73 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 2:06:11 PM
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Thanks Alexia. No, Kizzy has not bred any foals and was herself the only foal of her dam, Kameda. It's something I have thought about but perhaps at 14 and a maiden, she is a little old? She does have stunning movement esp her trot. I don't have any movement photos but will try and get some nice ones today and post them.  |
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guisburn
Gold Member
United Kingdom
562 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 9:52:23 PM
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Claire
Your mare has both - old english mixed with courthouse - if you lived in the north I would suggest that you send your barton lodge mare to possibly the last remaining barton lodge stallion - Zalim (Bayazar/Zareen) who is owned by Gail Hodgson and resides at Malton, he covered a thoroughbred mare last year and she is in foal, we have used him 4 times and have a nice 3 year old colt out of a crusader daughter out of the Barton lodge mare Shimsha (Shimnar/Sayada)
All the best
Melanie (I would love to pinch your mare!!!) |
www.guisburnarabians.co.uk |
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Athena
Silver Member
England
442 Posts |
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Tomos
Gold Member
Wales
940 Posts |
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sayeeda
Bronze Member
England
92 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 8:29:35 PM
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Hi Alexia and Claire,
Thank you very much for information on Sayyida, i have been on holiday for 2 weeks which is why i havent replied so apologies. No i dont know much about her breeding its very interesting to find out so thank you. Can you advise on which stallions to use, i have bred a foal unfortunatly not a full arab (her foal is 12 months). I would like to breed from her next year so any help on stallions is appreciated.
She doesnt look to good in the last photo but thi was taken when her foal was being weaned.
Claire x |
Edited by - sayeeda on 27 Sep 2007 8:36:45 PM |
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Athena
Silver Member
England
442 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 09:55:03 AM
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Nice to see you back Claire - hope the holiday was good.
Where are you geographically and how far are you prepared to travel your mare to stud? You would be doing a very worthwhile thing if you bred her to a good Old English stallion, preferably with some Courthouse and /or Nuhra connections.
I'll zap some ideas your way if you let me know the practical constraints - no doubt some others here might have some ideas too! Alexia |
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sayeeda
Bronze Member
England
92 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 10:17:28 AM
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Hi Alexia,
Holiday was great 2 weeks in Tunisia so weather hot!
Im in the Midlands outskirts of Stratford Upon Avon, will travel with her as she is great in a horse box or trailer.
Im really interested in her breeding but never know where to start although i knew people on here would direct me in the correct way :)
She is a great mare with an excellent personality, her filly is a cheeky madam to!! And most definatly favours my mares side.
Send your ideas to me please... :) Claire |
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kizzandra
Bronze Member
Scotland
73 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 10:28:50 AM
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Thanks for your reply Alexia. We are located just north of Glasgow. I am going to get some pics over the weekend hopefully to show off that great big trot  . |
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Athena
Silver Member
England
442 Posts |
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Athena
Silver Member
England
442 Posts |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 2:51:21 PM
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ooh just caught up with this thread.
i have seen Clare's mare and she is lovely-begged her to sell her to me. but she wouldn't
Alison-hope you and baby well-love to see more pics of your mare.
Alexia, how come not Spearmint-though i've not seen him, i thought he'd be pretty suitable-is it due to her sire?
Any joy with your stunning Narishka yet? |
pagey |
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kizzandra
Bronze Member
Scotland
73 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 6:42:03 PM
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Thanks Alexia. I don't even know another Arab owner round here, never mind a stallion! My heart says breed, my head says don't. So I guess with a little encouragement.... the heart will win over! Kizzy's not a brilliant loader but travels fine once in although better in a lorry.
Nikki, hello my dear. How are you? We are all fine. Life is just so busy but hey, that's what it's all about! Do you have any foals this year? Baby Andrew had his first seat on Kizzy last month.
I had thought about Spearmint too esp since he will be available by AI or is that not the best route given Kizzy's age?
Fingers crossed for sunshine for the photo shoot. |
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kastell
Silver Member
France
430 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2007 : 11:03:15 AM
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Hi, maybe you can help Alexia, Zalim did have a half brother Naraan (Bayazar x Rosmeen), I don't know if he's still alive or standing at stud, he's in the Crabbet Convention 2002 Book, do you know if he's still around, as he may be a suitable partner for Claire's mare? Claire,also take a look at Miska's link on page 1, there's a very nice Barton Lodge Old English stallion there "Claphams Rudan". Are there any pure Couthouse mares still alive, I was told that Spearmint had a full sister?
Thanks Claire. |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2007 : 10:18:34 AM
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Crikey forgot about him(naraan), he has sired so little foals, in fact, i can't remember seeing any in the stud books.
What about the lady that has Blonda too? Maybe she's bred a stallion out of her?
Hiya Alison,
I'm well thanks, glad you're doing good, and well done little Andrew! Starting his riding in style
No foals this year, but have a huge 3 due next year, 2 by Rusleem, 1 by GoudahCan't wait to see what pop's out next year. |
pagey |
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Athena
Silver Member
England
442 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2007 : 11:57:31 AM
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Originally posted by kizzandraThanks Alexia. Kizzy's not a brilliant loader but travels fine once in although better in a lorry. I had thought about Spearmint too esp since he will be available by AI or is that not the best route given Kizzy's age? Fingers crossed for sunshine for the photo shoot.
Well AI (fresh or chilled) should not be a problem with your mare. Frozen is more of an issue and most clinics prefer not to do it with mares of 15 or more anyway, unless they are very established easy breeders.
On the basis of what I can see in your snaps so far, Spearmint might well be an option for your mare - she is a rather distinctive type. I cannot guarantee to be right of course!
And yes, Loretta McKechnie had old Blonda and bred a bay son in 2000 called Bayseer (by Crown Court [Manto /Selinda]) but he has had no foals up to 2005 (last AHS Studbook) and I have no idea if she is able to stand him at stud or what he is like now. I saw snaps when he was just a yearling - at the time he looked promising but immature. Blonda had previous sons too but none of them have progeny so it is most likely they were gelded.
In general terms it would seem a shame to breed these Courthouse lines totally away from their own type. So many of today's Crabbet stallions have high proportions of Silver & Oran lines which are lovely but very different to Courthouse, Nuhra and Barton Lodge. Now if the Foxbury Stud were still going, there would be lots of options with General Gold and Fari II lines on offer which offers a good blend but not a total change in look.
A horse that springs to mind in this vein is Shoguns Flame of Gold, a chestnut 2000 stallion by Shogun (Golden Samurai /Fawzeia by Nasib) from Cameo Rose (Imad /Gold Roseries by Gold Rex. He is a lovely horse of the General Gold male line with multiple lines to Rissla which has always gone well with Courthouse lines.
Rissla's grandson Champurrado (Irex [Rissla] /Niseyra) was important at Courthouse while the Courthouse early sire Sainfoin was by Rissla's maternal half-brother Rasim and out of Rissla's paternal half sister Safarjal.
Shoguns Flame of Gold is with Samamtha Beeley at Luddendenfoot, Halifax. Let me know if anyone wants contact details.
Answering other people's various questions:
Spearmint's full sister was the glorious Siwah. I am not sure if she is still alive but she is retired from breeding in any event. Her most "crabbety" foal was her last filly by Rusleem. She never had anything that was 100% Old Enlish.
Sappho, dam of Spearmint and Siwah, did also have another full sister to them Salomy and another Courthouse line daughter Samiha Bint Samhan. Both these mares had some all Old English foals but none of these 100% Old English descendants remain now - all the lines were outcrossed to other lines at some point. Somrah (Shammar /Samiha Bint Samhan) did have a predominantly Crabbet daughter by Zircon Nazeer - lovely and rather interesting breeding.
All in all "real" Courthouse options are Zalim and Spearmint but one has to check where pedigrees or traits are too similar.
Couthouse connections in other Old English stallions are not too common. My reservations with Sayyida to Spearmint were simply that they looked rather too similar in actual traits to offer that little bit of positive contrast (without going to a totally diffent type) that seems so necessary for outstanding foals. On the other hand, he is a very good stallion and could never be a bad choice! So if he inspires, ignore me and go for it! Alexia |
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Athena
Silver Member
England
442 Posts |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2007 : 1:17:24 PM
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ah i've never had the pleasure of meeting Spearmint-would love to one day. I try not to rely on pics, i'm either suprised or dissapointed when you see them in the flesh.
Zareen had a daughter by Spearmint-any idea where she could be-getting on a bit now. I've checked and she hasn't been exported or bred from.
I have mental block on another stallion that may be suitable(will have to research when i get home(will bug me all day now)
I am sending positive baby thoughts to you and Narishka, you've had such heartache, i really hope you have a beautiful, safe filly from her. Fingers xcd-oh i do hope so Alexia. |
pagey |
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Athena
Silver Member
England
442 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2007 : 2:18:20 PM
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| Originally posted by nikki
ah i've never had the pleasure of meeting Spearmint-would love to one day. I try not to rely on pics, i'm either suprised or dissapointed when you see them in the flesh.
.... really hope you have a beautiful, safe filly from her. Fingers xcd-oh i do hope so Alexia.
Thanks Nikki, for all the good luck wishes.
Have to say that, even in the flesh, horses can look very different at different, times, ages, condition etc. Of course, when trying to guess at the effect of pedigrees on breeding one is always relying on assessing the majority of the pedigree on the basis of horses one only knows from photos and how they appear to have bred on - through more photos!
Seeing as much in the flesh as possible is always preferable but a lot of the time we just have to rely on educated guess-work.
I have seen Spearmint several times over the years. He is always impressive as was his sister Siwah - awesome mare.
It is not just a stallion himself that is important when looking at possible sires for dreamfoals IMHO, however. I think it is as important, if not more important, to look at how they breed and what characteristics you can consistently expect from them and /or any of their near relatives.
It gets fun when you start to be able to visualise what you think an Arabian will probably look like from its pedigree, then see it and find you are right! Alexia |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2007 : 3:39:46 PM
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It gets fun when you start to be able to visualise what you think an Arabian will probably look like from its pedigree, then see it and find you are right! Alexia
I would usually agree with that, But Zaqrah (Vasilisk x Hamdanieh Habiba) is in foal for her 2nd foal to Goudah, an se stallion, so i have no idea what to expect although i've been told something along the Weil Lines. All the other times i had a "fair" idea on what to expect, and it's a buzz when they arrive just like you imagined, but this foal??? |
pagey |
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Athena
Silver Member
England
442 Posts |
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Vygoda
Platinum Member
United Arab Emirates
1627 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2007 : 08:48:13 AM
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All tests done for Spearmint (and Narim) to go to the AI Centre middle of this month.
Fingers crossed everyone please that he freezes (due to his age) though he is still very fertile.
Will keep you updated and put a banner on here too.
Jane
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Athena
Silver Member
England
442 Posts |
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