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Athena
Silver Member
England
442 Posts |
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pathannay
Gold Member
United Kingdom
938 Posts |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Sep 2007 : 12:48:51 PM
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Unfortunately Keren I don't think there are many people who unwittingly have Courthouse Arabians in their back yard. So many went abroad, very few were allowed to use the stallions and those that did stay in the UK were largely outcrossed away from traditional English breeding.[/right]
Hi Alexia
I was talking about the sort of Arab you keep on your mantlepiece rather than in the paddock 
See some here: http://www.beswickhorse.co.uk/horses/1771_arab_bahram.htm
Bahram was used extensively as the 'ultimate Arab' in many publications, and for a long time represented the breed not just in the contents but on the cover of the 'Observer's Guide to Horses & Ponies', so he was undoubtedly influential beyond his actual descendants.
Persimmon I think suffered from being at the Maxwells at a time when they had a lot of more 'glamorous' (ie imported) horses, so people did not really value him as he deserved. Also, I think he was done a massive disservice by the dreadful photo of him in 'The Ultimate Horse Book' - I am really surprised the Maxwells agreed to let them use that particular shot.
I personally wish there were more horses of Courthouse breeding left, as I would like to be able to go back to those lines: unfortunately, my one breedable Belka mare is a right cow to cover, so I would not wish her on Spearmint at his age! However, I am on the look-out for a young mare from this dam line (Dr June's Scindy/Latifah/Annissah/Dooshti descendants), and if I can get one, then I will send her to Spearmint despite having some very nice boys of my own!
The Courthouse/Old Egyptian combination is a genuine 'nick' (not many people realise that Henry Babson imported a stallion from Courthouse) that produces classic Arabian type, terrific performance ability, brains and a super people-friendly temperament. It is a great shame that Musgrave Clark did not breed more horses, and that he did not try using The Shah, who was after all deliberately selected by the Hedleys to reinforce old Blunt lines.
Keren |
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Athena
Silver Member
England
442 Posts |
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Athena
Silver Member
England
442 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2007 : 1:59:48 PM
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Hi there, Blue Aquarius does have one rather distant line to Courthouse via her maternal grandsire Silver Kaftan back through that Kazra link to the Courthouse stallion Rashid again. It is a very nice Crabbet /Old English pedigree of the Hamdanieh Simrieh strain actually although Courthouse is not the predominate element. Alexia |
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pathannay
Gold Member
United Kingdom
938 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2007 : 5:22:24 PM
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Hi,
Thank you for that information on Blue Aquarius. Looks quite good for 29 doesn't she!? The two miniatures are her adopted "foals" and seem to have given her a new lease of life!!!
Pat
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www.azizaarabians.co.uk |
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kastell
Silver Member
France
430 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2007 : 10:20:25 AM
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Hi Claire, yes your mare does have Courthouse, Crabbet & Old English lines, without any other additions - a rarity! Samhan & Rashid were Courthouse bred. I'm quite new to Old English breeding, maybe Alexia will be able to advise you better. Have you bred from her? Have you any pic's of her? Also lovey pic of Blue Aquarius Pat, again lovely breeding, have you bred from her?
Claire. |
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pathannay
Gold Member
United Kingdom
938 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2007 : 10:52:24 AM
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Hi Claire,
Yes, Aquarius had one foal before I owned her (a colt I believe). I have owned her since she was 12 - I bred her to Zacaria and to Golden Cavalier - all fillies! and all better than herself. Unfortunately her last foal was many years ago but she was such a good mum she has missed it alot. These two miniatures which belong to my neighbour she has adopted and it really has given her a new lease of life. Last year I thought the time had come for her but this year she has blossomed and I think she will outlive me now!!!
Pat. |
www.azizaarabians.co.uk |
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kastell
Silver Member
France
430 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2007 : 1:03:05 PM
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| Hi again, after I posted my last message I remembered that Claire's horse Samraa Sayyida's mother Zareen had a beautiful chestnut colt by Bayazar (Bleinheim x Sherasa) born in 1982 called Zalim. I found him by chance when researching a friends PBA's breeding. He is still alive & stands at limited public stud in North Yorkshire (unfortunately too far away for me!). Hopefully someone will use him on their Old English mares before it's too late! If anyone is interested I have his owners details. He is beautiful!!! |
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Vygoda
Platinum Member
United Arab Emirates
1627 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2007 : 3:55:17 PM
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We are at the stage of arranging for Spearmint to go and be collected, and frozen. Goodness knows if he will freeze but his bloodlines are so rare, we just have to give it a shot. Whilst saying that, the mares covered this season and last were all in foal so he still must be very fertile at his age. Fingers crossed, and here's hoping  .
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Edited by - Vygoda on 10 Sep 2007 3:56:11 PM |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
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Vygoda
Platinum Member
United Arab Emirates
1627 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2007 : 4:27:11 PM
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Hi Keren,
Yes, both old gents are going to be collected ! |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
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mazey
Gold Member
England
501 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 9:49:29 PM
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Hi - I have a 2 year old gelding Kamad, who has the bloodlines mentioned in this thread. His mother Koraya is by Orayan out of a Spearmint mare - Kalmea, she traces to Nurhra through the Maxwell K line.
Kamad is by Imad and is going to be a lovely riding horse I think - he is sensible, confident and has nice self carriage so I'm really hoping he will do western.
I'll put a pic up if anyone can tell me how to do it -I've forgotten. I have a pic in phototbucket how do I get it up here. |
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Tomos
Gold Member
Wales
940 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 11:06:17 PM
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Hi Mazey, I would love to see a photo of Kamad as he and Elegancia are more than half brother and sister as your mare carries a line to Blenheim as does Augusta.
Alexia, thanks for your thoughts, I shall definately look out for the Spearmint/Silvern Princess colt in the future
Mandy |
"An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind" Gandhi
www.hispanoarabeswales.co.uk
www.thewelshcrabbetshow.org.uk |
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kizzandra
Bronze Member
Scotland
73 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2007 : 2:49:19 PM
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I believe my mare's damline is Courthouse with two lines to Nuhra. I would be really interested in confirmation. Thanks, Alison  |
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Vygoda
Platinum Member
United Arab Emirates
1627 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2007 : 5:12:34 PM
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We have in foal to Spearmint for 2008, the mare Daleela (by Imad x Dancing Queen), so the other way round so to speak. It will definitely be a chestnut .
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kizzandra
Bronze Member
Scotland
73 Posts |
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mazey
Gold Member
England
501 Posts |
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mazey
Gold Member
England
501 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2007 : 9:23:46 PM
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| Mandy pic of Kimmie (Kamad) - its a still from a video so a little blurred. He's about 14.3-15h now as a 2 year old, so think he is going to be a big boy. Very confident and very cheeky. |
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Athena
Silver Member
England
442 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 08:18:04 AM
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Hi Everyone, this is the Spearmint x Silvern Princess colt - taken at the Crabbet Show last weekend. Marilyn Sweet got some better photos which you can see on the Sweet website www.sweetphotography.com - and incidentally Imad ended up High Point Sire of the Crabbet Show (living). Been a bit busy & not answered everyone on here I think so I will have a look later today, promise.
Enjoy. Alexia |
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marionpack
Gold Member
England
1073 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2007 : 1:22:09 PM
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Hi,
Have just found out about Al and joined, I have a 23 year old gelding Sayan by Bayazar out of Sayada. I have spent a long time trying to find out what lines he carries i.e Crabbit, English, Polish, I bought him from Barton Lodge 20 years ago and he has been my best friend ever since, unfortunately age is creeping up on him and the reason for me tracing his blood line is to try and find something upon similar lines as his tempremant is fantastic and it will have to be something very special that I buy that will come any where near close to him, so if anybody out there can let me know what lineage he carries it would be much appreciated, and also if anybody is breeding along these lines.
Many thanks
Marion |
Berkshire
   
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Athena
Silver Member
England
442 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2007 : 4:22:38 PM
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What an interesting Crabbet/Old English pedigree. Yes the damline carries two lines of Courthouse breeding via the Courthouse sire Rheoboam and the mare Alexa plus Nuhra too. Actually the bay colour is owed in large part to lines to Farette via her son Fari II and Farette's much lesser known full brother Hediat Betros. Interesting as this bay colour goes back ultimately to Ahmar (Azrek Or.Ar. x Queen of Sheba Or.Ar.) with strong reinforcement via the Ahmar grandson Berk - Berk is a key bloodline in the Farette line and in Courthouse breeding via Safarjal and her son Sainfoin (sire of Rheoboam amongst others). Hope this is not all too confusing!
Has this mare had any foals? Would be lovely to see her breed a 100% Old English baby - so many of these lines have vanished in English form precisely because they were so good. They were bought up by the showing world and then bred to "new" showing lines. Worked very well but nearly wiped out some previously very prolific and high quality Crabbet/Old English lines. Yes, I fully admit to being biased!
Love to see some more PICs if you have them - surely this mare must be a stylish mover with this breeding! Alexia |
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Athena
Silver Member
England
442 Posts |
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Athena
Silver Member
England
442 Posts |
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Topic |
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Topic Locked 
Should have posted link to All Breeds 