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Fee
Platinum Member
2601 Posts |
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kath
Gold Member
United Kingdom
943 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Jul 2013 : 3:17:45 PM
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Not everyone who takes a horse on loan is irresponsible or criminally minded. For every horror story there are many wonderful stories
I don't know if the owner ever contacted SRGAHS but i didn't see anything on FB, am happy to share if they do (i am also in Scotland) |
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Edited by - kath on 17 Jul 2013 3:18:20 PM |
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Pasch
Platinum Member
2277 Posts |
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Pandora
Bronze Member
77 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2013 : 5:09:28 PM
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If you actually read my input you will find I'm not as you have construed it bad mouthing the Scots.
I am making a statement of fact about the logistics regarding two different legal systems that make it even more contracted dealing with situations like this. I have stated it applies both ways and more to the point any civil legal system works provided both parties are involved in submitting to arbitration by the legal system governing that country.
This incident is made complicated by the other party spending over a month evading the law of their own country and while I have all along stated clearly that parties in that area of Scotland may think they are doing right by their 'friend' in keeping stum they are in fact helping her to evade the Scottish judiciary system. If they think she has a legitimate claim then the horse where abouts would not be concealed and evasive information intended solely to delay the continuance of Nat legally obtaining Bru would not be going on.
But hey at least now horse owners in Scotland are stepping forward to take an active interest,please do not twist this to a racist cross border dispute when it is not. We have all along endeavoured to work to raise awareness in order to request help in finding exactly where Brujo is and to help inform others who may find themselves in similar strife about legal logical steps to retrieve their horse. It works equally if the other party has legitimate claim to the horse.
It does not alter the fact that loaning horses has many excellent outcomes and equally there are unhappy and distressful cases like this. As to the statement by Fee: DON'T LOAN, you will equally offend all the horse community who desperately want to loan and the many horse owners who for various reasons have looked to loan arrangements at one time or another (and that would include the person who at present is keeping Brujo who can only compete in the various equestrian arenas she does because she is riding horses that do not belong to her!).
So settle down Scotland. I am not tarnishing your honour but would like to see your fighting spirit properly directed to finding Brujo and helping your legal system operate. The shame is not Scotland's but the one person who has abused the trust of Nat's friendship and the agreement of her loan of her horse. |
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Pop
Platinum Member
England
3051 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2013 : 5:25:36 PM
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Hi Pandora
I've no wish to debate, it's far too hot.
But, for the sake of the horse and its best chance of getting home..... You need Livery Yards and Scottish people on your side at this point; and I'm sure you did not mean to offend either, but your words have at the very least left an impression of offence. I am neither a Livery Yard Owner or Scottish, and I did wince on both counts when I read your words.
If it were my horse, I would be beside myself with distress, so I understand your heightened emotion.
It is quiet, calm and professional which gets results, with horses and I think in this case, people with horses.
I do hope it gets resolved very soon. |
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kath
Gold Member
United Kingdom
943 Posts |
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Gail
Gold Member
993 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2013 : 10:38:11 AM
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I also find your comments offensive Pandora.
I sincerely hope that Nat finds Brujo and gets him home safely.
I am in Scotland on a large livery yard. The horse is not there. If he was I would call the police.
I find the implication that all the horse people of Scotland are hiding this horse and protecting a criminal offensive and ridiculous.
Good luck in finding Brujo. |
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Pandora
Bronze Member
77 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2013 : 1:14:40 PM
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I'm getting full on attack here but I have at no time made any comment against Livery yard owners, and I have stated all along that I do understand the dilemma of loyalty by friends of the other person who can only go by her account.
Yes Nat has had some information and as we already advised the problem was that there were several conflicting inputs which had to be verified and eliminated from investigation but at the same time not upset the innocent property owners who were being wrongly put forward as having Bru in their care.
As to my remark about taking careful consideration before putting horses on loan on opposite sides of the border to the owners place of residence THIS WAS NOT OFFENSIVE OR PREJUDICE it is a statement of FACT that the two countries laws have different interpretations and until one law exists protecting horses and owners then it is up to the owners to assess what is best. This is FACT and any one of you can go back through the AL threads to see the legal nightmare a previous owner went through to retrieve her Arab that ended up in Scotland under a different legal system.
The complications of English and Scottish Law and stating there is a problem is not OFFENSIVE to anyone whereas the existence of such controversial Laws IS Offensive to all responsible horse owners.
So don't waste breath misconstruing the thread content instead consider lobbying for improvement in the Laws of the UK to be united in protecting owners and their horses wherever in the UK they reside or their horse ends up!
As also previously stated Nat is limited with respect to internet access, has a job and children to support while battling this cumbersome legal monster and being psychological torn apart by the callous games of the person who has taken her horse. As soon as Bru is safe Nat will come on here and provide the full facts and meantime does appreciate and thank you all for your support and help. |
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joanna_piana
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3935 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2013 : 1:40:38 PM
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| Gosh chill out people and enjoy the summer. The written word can often be misconstrued but I think Pandora has cleared up the misunderstanding and did not mean any offence so lets stick to the topic in hand which is reuniting a clearly upset owner with her horse. Life is much simpler and more pleasant if you don't always take things personally and create arguments for the sake of it! |
      
Harthall Rashida RIP, Binley Ishara, Bouchan
Chorleywood, Hertfordshire |
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brack369
Gold Member
559 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2013 : 2:15:32 PM
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Well said joanna!!
Let's hope Brujo is found very soon. |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2013 : 2:41:49 PM
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| Hear! Hear! |
  Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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Tomos
Gold Member
Wales
940 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2013 : 5:58:27 PM
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UPDATE
I've just spoken to Nat. She hd a tip off regarding Brujo's location and made the decision to drive from Essex to Scotland to get him.
Whe she got to the yard yesterday, though the loanee's other horses were there Brujo wasn't, she has gone round every livery yard, farm etc in the area she could to look for him, it appears that at least one if not two people knew where he's been taken but weren't prepared to say.
He had been in a yard at Neilston, Renfrewshire.
To say she is desperate is an understatement, clearly someone somewhere knows where he is, so please, please if you know anyone in the area ask them to keep a look out for new horses, and contact Nat with any information.
Thanks in advance
Mandy
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"An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind" Gandhi
www.hispanoarabeswales.co.uk
www.thewelshcrabbetshow.org.uk |
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debs
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2013 : 6:17:58 PM
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| Oh god, what a disappointment for her.... hoping for good news soon. |
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sab2
Platinum Member
8467 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2013 : 6:32:58 PM
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| Poor Nat , this must be so upsetting for her, thats a very long drive poor thing, if she dose it again and needs a bed for the night my door will be open , we can also offer a stable if she needs one, it would at least break the journey up for her. I just cannot understand how people can cover for the lady who has him, shocking, chin up Nat. |
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Ari
Platinum Member
1657 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2013 : 6:50:24 PM
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What a nightmare to be so near yet so far, can't imagine Nat's terrible worry and frustration. If loanee's other horse is at the yard then that must be a key link to finding this person and Brujo.
This person must be getting help to move and hide Brujo from people who are either not being being told the situation or are getting an enhanced version of the truth.
This could never happen on our small yard as YO keeps a watching brief on loans and "arrangements", we have never had the like but if we did we would insist on mediation and would no way help move a horse or keep quiet.
However the livery yard owner and clients may not know that Brujo is on loan, they only know what they have been told!
Very difficult situation and I wish all the very best for Brujo to be back with Owner ASAP
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Edited by - Ari on 21 Jul 2013 6:52:02 PM |
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Paresh
Gold Member
613 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2013 : 7:04:16 PM
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so sad, I hope she gets him home soon, I have posted his missing poster on my FB wall.
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sab2
Platinum Member
8467 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2013 : 7:24:16 PM
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I have shared it again off your FB wall Paresh  |
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lisa rachel
Gold Member
Wales
831 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2013 : 10:15:59 PM
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| Hello Nat, I saw mand at the w/e and she told me of the terrible situation that you are in, I am so sorry, I hope that you will be reunited with Bru very soon xx |
lisa |
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Tomos
Gold Member
Wales
940 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2013 : 10:40:44 PM
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Another Update
There is a remote possiblity that Brujo is in the Taunton area, its much more likely that he's still in Renfrewshire, but if peeps in the South West could keep ears to the ground Nat would be very grateful, so would I !
He's a very lovable character and quite distinctive
Mandy
Lisa I'Ll be in touch tomorrow re: Crabbet stuff |
"An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind" Gandhi
www.hispanoarabeswales.co.uk
www.thewelshcrabbetshow.org.uk |
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Pandora
Bronze Member
77 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2013 : 11:36:24 PM
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http://www.hispano-arabeuk.com/show.php?key=189
Brujo is the legally owned horse of Natalie Barker and was put on loan formerly in Dunlop, and subsequently moved by the loanee who breached the loan arrangements in refusing to notify Nat of her and Brujo's new address.
They had until recently kept in touch in writing and when the loan period was up and Nat requested information to fetch Brujo, the other party initially requested to buy Brujo and when again notified Nat wanted her horse returned sent various written responses ransoming the horse!
Nat has sought the return of her horse through civil law to no avail as the other party has evaded legal contact and moved the horse into hiding.
We believe the horse was at one point at Cappelli Lodge Livery in Neilston prior to being removed into hiding.
There is a Police number issued for the notice of Brujo being Missing on Loan. His passport has also been requested returned with Brujo for checking and updating with the PIO.
Anyone 'keeping' Brujo on their property is liable for a Trading Standards fine of £5,000 plus prosecution as through the actions of the loanee Brujo now also has illegal documentation.
Contrary to claims; Brujo is not and never has been the property of this other person. He is Spanish state Registered by his breeder Mandy Thomas and has a filed notice of sale from the breeder to Natalie Barker that has been waiting updating in his passport by Spain along with other updates. Uk Breeders Association representing this breed has been kept appraised of the loan and recent activities preventing the return of Brujo and his passport in compliance with EU legislation.
Any help your members can give to aid in the safe return of Brujo to his legal owner Natali Barker would be most appreciated and to that end I request the postering of this link and full message upon your site.
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2013 : 12:09:01 AM
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| Sincerely hope someone reveals his true whereabouts soon, I cannot imagine the pain that Nat is going through, and so sorry that her long journey was fruitless. Although I can understand that his loanee may have become very attached to him, there is no way that that justifies this behaviour. It is criminal to do this to the legal owner of a much loved flesh and blood animal. |
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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Goldenmane
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4964 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2013 : 07:43:10 AM
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| Will repost again on Facebook, as I have family in West Country. Cannot imagine how Nat is feeling. |
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glo
Gold Member
England
1297 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2013 : 07:54:28 AM
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| I am in the Taunton area, let me know if you want me to do any thing! |
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jillandlomond
Platinum Member
Scotland
3586 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2013 : 07:56:38 AM
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| Can we have the name of the loanee? Somebody will surely know her and be able to pass on her whereabouts. |
    
Borders, Scotland |
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gossy
Platinum Member
England
3639 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2013 : 1:12:09 PM
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| perhaps a PM of who the loanee is to all on this thread would be helpful, although i realise that it could be difficult if any one on here is a friend of the loanee :( |
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Topic |
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Horse on loan missing
