| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Feb 2010 : 08:29:34 AM
|
OK to get this back on track !! I'm going to ask questions !!
How do you all start a new colt.....does anyone use heston bales of straw to the line the mare against to stop the colt running down the side ?? When they still go down the side and try and jump on the head, do you try and push them back round, try and just turn the mare, pull them off and try again ?? Do you ever pull a young horse off ?? Do you just turn out in a paddock and let the free for all begin ?? Or do any of you get someone else to do it ;) Personally I love the latter !!
We've had good results with certain horses and the heston bales who'd got into bad habits. Ansata El Salaam liked them cos he leaned on them when he'd finished !!
Lynda is he fully drawn trying to sh*g a bucket ??!! |
Report to Moderator  |
|
|
LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2010 : 08:31:24 AM
|
Delyth, no one hangs on my every word! far from it , I feel I am pi..ing in the wind. .
my fairytale relationship as you put it , is not a fairytale but a reality! it also extended to my other stallion and several colts, so unless I have been extremely lucky  . right I am off to do two boys and seven girls , I shall tell my girl ( who helps) to wash off her purfume and carry a pipe at all times |
   
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
gossy
Platinum Member
England
3639 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2010 : 08:34:32 AM
|
All horses can be unpredictable at times, i have a filly that im sure has too much testosterone in her!! When i worked at Millfield we had some lovely stallions perfect temperements and then some especially one that wasnt, but the story was that he had a really bad start in life and was hit alot, with time he has mellowed into a lovely old boy, we always had a healthy respect for all the horses and luckyly never had any really nasty incidents.
I do know someone that never goes near her stallion without a stick, she hasnt actually used it but does take one in.
I have to ask myself if i would enjoy that horse as much if i feared it so terribly that i had to take and use a stick! |
   |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2010 : 08:47:02 AM
|
I only mentioned numbers to imply it takes as much time to do/spend time with each boy as it does 3 or even females !!
But just to re-iterate you do carry a stick to cover Lynda !! No Ffatal does bother about perfume either (like Karen there is a much more overpowering smell most of the time !!) but Salaam was very sensitive to any smell.
I definately wouldn't keep a horse if I felt I had to have a stick through fear ie Sinan Bey alas no more..... |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
lisa rachel
Gold Member
Wales
831 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2010 : 08:58:47 AM
|
Re selection think Minhe is correct, as I have said ad nauseam this is why I love the breed. I cannot but tell the truth yet again the large number of Arab stallions that I have worked with have been very pleasant horses, many outstandingly so. I go to see them as a vet but always take time to chat to them over the stable door and don't just barge in without introducing myself,on the other hand I am not expecting trouble or feeling apprehensive and have never yet had any problems. The Arab stallions I am talking about include all strains, ,ridden horses, endurance horses, international standard in hand show champions, one stallion yards,big yards standing several stallions etc. Other stallions would range from tb race horses to mountain pony stallions off the hill.
I am aware that many people carry a stick for covering, a sensible precaution,( but as I said many many times I have been involved with covering a mare with no stick being carried in fact this applies to the majority of stallions I deal with).Personally I would not be interested in using an Arab that needed a stick under normal conditions, that would not rule out any Arab stallion in my area, so I don't think it an unreasonable position to take.
I do not know Lynda personally but from her posts on here and PMs I would say she is an excellent horsewoman, her stallions behaviour is a credit to her. I think she is taking it personally because the implications have been that she is careless to put it mildly, she has probably felt defensive of her friend Charissma as well.
I have agreed with Jamana on several points and with Emma re stallions being dangerous when jealous. So, as you say, we are not so far apart as I am firmly in the 'an Arab stallion should be a gentleman' camp.
We have approx 5,000 horses on our books, the most vicious and dangerous by far is a pony mare.
To clarify one point I am not recommending that novices should be blase around stallions or any other horse for that matter. All horses can kill,indeed they can kill by accident, and stallions and mares with foals at foot need to be treated initially with extra caution. Arabs in particular, being intelligent and high couraged are not suitable for foolish or aggressive people. In the right hands though, imo you will never have a better friend, stallion, mare or gelding.
Can someone please explain all the stuff about 'time of the month' are you suggesting that stallions are like sharks and will attack if they smell blood??? or are you suggesting that female sex pheromones will arouse him , if so it might be worth remembering that a woman ovulates a week AFTER the end of her period!
Last of all as I said in a much earlier post, horses imo are at their most dangerous when that feel threatened or stressed, which echos a point Emma made, a calm relaxed stallion who RESPECTS,TRUSTS and LOVES his owner/ handler is by far the safest horse to be around... I suppose I must feel grateful that the owners .. men AND WOMEN who own the stallions that I deal with are sufficiently good horsemen that I can do my job, ie vaccinate, stitch up, remove teeth, take blood or collect semen without fearing for my life.
Finally, I have been at home sorting out a manege, but am back to work from now so will not be on A/L for a while, nothing I have written is intended as a dig at anyone, I respect everyone's views, if I have offended anyone please PM me and I will respond at a later date.
Cheers
Lisa
|
lisa |
Edited by - lisa rachel on 10 Feb 2010 09:20:37 AM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2010 : 09:17:45 AM
|
Plastic pipe. Well, well. I think that says more about the people wielding them than any stallion.
Mr and Mrs Jamana have stated frequently that it is inarguable that the racing TB industry is at the pinnacle of horse care, so professionals in that industry know it all and can therefore belittle kindly owners, like Lynda, who trust their stallions, implying they are fools. Well, I would argue with that. As I have said earlier,in any industry where the individual animals are secondary to the profit the animals always suffer. This is an industry where it is okay to race two year olds, and breed on terrible aggression, and countless other things too numerous to mention that are clearly not for the good of the horse.I am sure those who make huge profits out of factory farming regard themselves as experts, but the animals in their care would beg to differ.
There is however, one obvious professional in this thread and that is Lisa Rachel--a highly respected equine vet with huge experience of horses in all different situations. She has been patient and polite throughout when a lesser person would have been totally exasperated at the argumentative tone of others who appear to not pay attention to what she says, and think they know better than everyone else.
Thank you Lisa, for always being the voice of reason, and always standing up for the horses.
|
    |
Edited by - Zan on 10 Feb 2010 09:30:24 AM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2010 : 09:38:52 AM
|
LOL! Delyth he wasnt shagging a bucket , if you saw the bigger picture , you would see he was showing off to the mares who were all watching him, he was simply playing with the bucket , now your implying he is a frustrated stallion who has to shag a bucket !,!! and no he doest masturbate in the stable either !I said before YES I do carry a stick when covering, of course I would not do it without. I find I have had to defend the whole time so get on with your thread I will step out. leave it to the professionals  |
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
joanna_piana
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3935 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2010 : 09:48:34 AM
|
| Very interesting thread I know nothing about stallions and have never handled one but I do think we probably all become very complacent with our own horses and whilst most would never intentionally hurt us we probably do put ourselves at risk because we trust them so much and the unexpected can always happen. I guess it never hurts to be aware of their power and strength and to sometimes think what could happen with any horse in the wrong circumstances if something sends them into that blind panic. |
      
Harthall Rashida RIP, Binley Ishara, Bouchan
Chorleywood, Hertfordshire |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Zenitha
Gold Member
England
1078 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2010 : 09:57:17 AM
|
Well, I think there is a lot to be learned from all of this.
I do believe that the way the thoroughbred stallions are managed and bred has everything to do with their temperament. They may be exceptionally well cared for in terms of the best feed, veterinary care etc, but clearly their emotional needs(by emotional I mean the natural needs for freedom and companionship every horse has)are for most, ignored. I totally understand the difficulties involved in looking after these animals, and the need for protection of the handler by carrying a stick, but find it sad that, to my mind, the temperament issues are largely man made (although clearly this is not ALWAYS the case).
There is generally a big difference between how thoroughbred and arabian stallions are kept. Most studs have from one to a few stallions. These stallions are probably given more freedom than the thoroughbreds (via turnout)and are also likely to be involved with less people (eg they know their owners well). Their 'emotional' needs are better catered for (although obviously there are always exceptions)As has been said previously, temperament has ALWAYS been of importance in Arabians, which is why so many of them are better tempered than than their thoroughbred relatives.
I do not own my own stallion - although I have been involved in handling stallions and assisting with coverings. So I confess to being a complete novice in terms of the experience many on here have. My experience so far has been of generally well mannered, good tempered stallions, some being a little more 'dodgy' than others, some being exceptionally gentle and trustworthy. However, all are stallions and need to be respected as such - they are hugely more powerful than us !
A sire I have twice used 0n my mares has an exceptional temperament, which he passes on. He would not dream of biting or hurting his owners - they have had him all his life, and have never needed a stick. These horses ARE out there ! At the same time, anyone who has had the terrible experience Delyth had would quite understand the need to carry a stick 'just in case', for their own protection, particularly when they have young children to think about.
In summation, I believe that whilst what Jumana's OH says about thoroughbred studs is very true, our system of breeding with Arabians is rather different and not so intense. Delyth's advice to carry a stick comes from years of experience (good and bad) and I believe should be heeded (I certainly will in the future), experienced or not. And finally, there certainly ARE stallions out there with exceptional temperaments whose owners can and do enjoy a very happy, relaxed relationship with them.
Now, I would love to move on and see some of Delyth's questions regarding introducing a young colt to covering answered - this is a fascinating subject and I'm sure there are many of you with great experience in this area, please do share it with us less enlightened 
PS Lisa Rachel, I agree you always put your views across so politely and patiently, you seem a genuinely lovely person  |
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2010 : 09:59:51 AM
|
I have to say I always walk out to my stallions field, which does cross over a narrow lane, with a plastic hose pipe in hand. This is used as a guide because mine has a terrible habit of trying to wander down the lane instead of across it! we use the pipe as a guide.
The alkathene pipe used is hollow and if waved in the air will make a strange sound which brings most horses back to sense if needed. It also does not hurt them if contact is made.
No we don't beat our horse but it is there as a guide and an extension to my short arm and height. As my chap now towers over me. In his exuberance I challenge anyone not to feel slightly intimidated by a prancing horse.
We use a bit in a mouth on a young colt for walking to the field and for covering. If they are taught to respect your space and lead properly from a bitted bridle I can't see any problems at covering time, we have trained quite a few young colts and never had a problem at covering time for the first go, even with me as stallion man/women.
I think once you get older you don't have that extra monthly worry, in my case I have never had that extra worry and my chap can't make out if I'm a he or she
I do feel that maybe we as hobby owners, which a lot of us are, don't take this seriously enough and accidents can happen to anyone. It does not mean our stallions are nasty, cos their not, but it just means we don't have the same approach as the big studs do.
I also feel that a lot of thoroughbreds who are mainly bred just for speed, forget the temperament side when breeding so hence they might get a few nasty stallions, where as our arabs are often bred for temperament and so our stallions on the whole may be kinder, but still this is not a guarantee and no one should be complacent.
Interestingly we have Double Trigger standing at the stud at the top of my lane, he is by all accounts a sweetheart.
Interesting to read how different people do things on her. |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Gerri
Platinum Member
England
4211 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2010 : 10:00:33 AM
|
I am reading this article with interest and I have to say when I worked in the TB industry many many years ago, I did a stint in the stallions yard at Newmarket and they all carried a legth of hard rubber hose when working with the stallions, and we all loved the stallions so it was not to be cruel but to be safe. I have a stallion and I never ever carry a stick as he does not need one as is such a treasure to handle but we did carry a thick hard length of hose when walking out our homebred colt as he could be so silly and dangerous when he got excited so it was an aid to keep him and us safe, I think the point is missing on this thread the point is you need to keep yourselves and your stallions safe and the only way to do that is to keep in control and I for one will never ever question people who have more experience in a particular field than me however if I saw an animal being abused with a weapon then it would be a totally different subject and when we use our softie to cover mares this year and it changes him then I will have no hesitation in changing the rules with him either as I want to be safe and I want him to be safe too |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
alethea
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1526 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2010 : 10:10:24 AM
|
I have to work with different breeds and temperaments of colts/stallions on a daily basis. I think that how they turn out temperament wise is alot to do with how they are reared and the environment which they live in.
However, some of the tb's we breed are little from a very young age! But they are the ones that turn out to be the best racehorses. I guess they need those extra hormones to win. In saying that, we have 4 tb stallions and they certainly dont lead miserable lives!!
Alethea
Aristotle Arabians |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Cate
Platinum Member
Scotland
1785 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2010 : 11:29:42 AM
|
Zan, nobody has said anything about weilding a stick! You're taking the whole thread and what has been said totally out of context. Jamana did not "belittle kindly owners" to write that is wrong and pushing aside the experience Jamana and Delyth are trying to share and make people aware of what can happen. The information which has been put on this thread by posters like Jamana, Delyth is from people who have dealt with stallions/colts most of their lives. Newcomers who might be thinking of keeping their own colt/stallion should be made aware of what can happen and precautions to perhaps take until they are sure of the type of stallion/colt they have, or what is needed to control a situation if they do not have access to an experienced person.
It is admirable that lisa has never witnessed any unruly Arab stallion, but obviously the training has all been done and dusted. Some listen and some are so highly charged their emotions send them into orbit, but this behaviour has to be controlled otherwise accidents will and do happen. Using a piece of pipe is not because the stallion is necessarily dangerous or unruly but there as back up/guide because one never knows what can trigger an animal to change, or get irritated. Regarding the "time of the month" this is something I knew about when I was in my youth i.e. approx 10 and upwards because I helped out at a dealing stable in London which also used the horses for the riding school. The always had stallions around, some good, some not so good. To discount what Jamana/Delyth have said about stallions is a VERY dangerous road to take especially with novices reading these threads.
I was told by one lady who owned two Arab stallions that I need to be careful because if things went wrong at the covering my stallion could turn on me as did happen to her. I was and am fortunate that my stallions are not like that even when I've had a difficult mare.
What also must be remembered is, if I am correct, Linda did not get her stallion until he was mature, so he was well trained.
I think it is so unfortunate that this thread has changed from the very informative thread it should be, written by those who have a world of experience with stallions and colts, to a defensive thread almost discounting what these very experienced breeders and stallion man have to offer.
|
 |
Edited by - Cate on 10 Feb 2010 11:33:42 AM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Jamana
Gold Member
England
682 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2010 : 11:38:40 AM
|
Mr.J again,When starting off a young stallion to the covering barn,we would always get a old mare that is well use to what is going on.
Take her to the trying gate (rubber clad),then bring the colt to the other side of the gate,take him to her shoulder then work back to her rear but NOT allow him to get under her tail.
He may start to rear up and arse about a bit, but just encourage him. When the mare shows to him then you should see his tackle. If he's ready to and keen for a go then in you go to the covering barn.
Get her in position then make him stand back, dont allow him to charge in. Lead him up to her side,let him try her, some young colts will bite her hard and try to do that under her belly, dont let him do this as she may well kick him,and starting off a new horse you dont want this.
Then pull him back a bit, standing at her side then let him jump up. You sort of push him up a bit,now this is when some of them will just rear up with feet crashing about all over the mares back, they also can get themselves up too far over the mares head,you would have to pull him off if he gets this far forward, but do this a few times and it will work.
DONT grab for his penis, but just guide him in and then put your hand at the base of his sheath to feel the throb then you can be sure he has fired the bullet! Most new stallions will get the hang of it after a few coverings.
This is where a stallion man will always carry a stick as once they cover they can get a bit stupid and you have to remind them that they do have manners! |
     |
Edited by - Jamana on 10 Feb 2010 1:42:16 PM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
cmj
Silver Member
France
383 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2010 : 12:31:45 PM
|
| "Mr" Jamana, it is great to hear your views, based on so much experience. I have the utmost respect for people who can handle many stallions, probably all with different temperaments. We can always learn something on here |
 |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Avonbrook
Silver Member
287 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2010 : 1:00:31 PM
|
I am glad that this thread has continued to run because I am learning and being provoked into reviewing what I do. I am very lucky in my stallion who has now been covering my mares for 4 years and is still very lovely to have as a stallion living at home. Otherwise he would be a gelding.
Yes he did grow up noticably the first season he covered. I am also lucky in that an experienced studman helped us and controlled the situation while teaching me in our first season. I have learned more again watching how he has been handled by others when collecting semen for AI. I am learning again here... I am always particularly careful when covering and will again be working with more experienced handlers this year when he has his first "outside" mares by natural covering (as opposed to AI). His behaviour is not adversely affected by perfume or "time of the month".
Otherwise, I hadn't really thought about it but I do almost always have an old showing cane when I am moving him in the same way as (with any horse) I carry a stick of whatever variety when riding or lungeing. The cane is used as a shoulder "prodder" if he forgets himself and wants to lean on me rather than walking in his own space - in the same way as I do to teach a youngster or with my daughter's would-be-bargey connemara pony.
I absolutely adore him and love it when people remark on his temperament both at home and at competitions (which they always do )but I am always aware that respect with any horse has to be two-way and worked at. I guess its all more intense with a stallion maybe.
Anyway, as I say, we are onto new territory again this year so it is a very apt time for me to think about what I am doing and why.
Rowena |
  
www.avonbrookstud.co.uk |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Jamana
Gold Member
England
682 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2010 : 1:08:17 PM
|
CMJ,Thanks for your comments,Stallions are a thing I have always enjoyed 'doing' the horses I had used to cover books of over 100 mares each,Ive seem most things as to how they react to all sorts of things at the peak of the season they would cover up to five mares a day each,
It is true that TB stallions don't really have a 'normal' life they can and some do get very aggressive,working every day with them you can in a way bond with them but you can never trust them as the day you drop your guard that's the day they will have you,and if they do you will ALWAYS come off the worst.
The stallion man that was attacked in Herefordshire was never the same after and gave the job up and the horse, who was owned by the Queen, was sold to Japan he was later put down due to his temper!I think what some on here don't seem to understand is the speed and force they have if they attack and in most cases for no reason. |
|
Edited by - Jamana on 10 Feb 2010 1:16:06 PM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2010 : 1:48:24 PM
|
Jamana - can you copy & paste yr reply to the starting a colt thread. I felt this topic was perhaps getting 'spoilt'......many thanks :)
All this info is fantastic for EVERYONE and much appreciated. Wait 'til we get onto artificial vagina's and ejaculating problems !! |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Gerri
Platinum Member
England
4211 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2010 : 3:12:14 PM
|
Wait 'til we get onto artificial vagina's and ejaculating problems !! lol......well I look forward to that topic being posted, |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2010 : 3:20:07 PM
|
I would like to echo what has been said about jealousy and frustration changing a stallion's attitude. Our Baggy is a soft sod (he lets me play tunes on his teeth - ! ) but on one occasion, he's had a very frustrating evening with a mare who would *not* be covered.
The next morning I was in Bag's box when the mare was led past (not for Bag, but just to go out into her field), and Bag whipped round and bit me HARD on the leg. He was very contrite the minute he had done it (and got a boot up the bum, which Zan will no doubt disapprove of, but that is how a mare would have disciplined him, and my welly-shod foot did a lot less damage to his well-muscled behind than his teeth did to my leg!).
He drew blood and I was literally crying with the pain of the thing, and as I said, he showed himself to be sorry by ducking his head (which we have NOT beaten him into, but which he does off his own bat when he accidentally hurts someone), but all the same, his instinct was stronger than everything he had been taught just for that one second! So even the sweetest and soppiest stallion CAN hurt you.
Keren |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Gerri
Platinum Member
England
4211 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2010 : 3:27:24 PM
|
| LOL..... Sorry to laugh but I am afraid that would have been my first reaction too |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
LOU
Gold Member
England
637 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2010 : 5:45:10 PM
|
I have had the pleasure of having at my yard, The Maxwell bred Hejaz a very cheeky chappy indeed if im not right in saying at a rather big European show he went for a run in the VIP section with handler, he was a dream but god he took the p--s, I did carry a stick.
Ffeonix by Ffatal Attraction never needed a stick but had upmost respect for me he again had a great temp.
Now ADAWY, Emma Maxwells stallion he lived with me for 4 years he had a temp to die for but again when covering a stick for sure he was rather rampant to say the least. I remember coming down to the yard to leave for Aachen with Adawy, to see him laying down with Emma on top of him trimming his ears, he was so funny.
And now our Erald now he is a boy I wouldnt even dream of picking up a stick with please beleive me Delyth will back me up Erald is more of a gelding than any of my geldings and I have 5, I dont ride with one carry one nor would pick one up he would be so so upset he is them most sensitive horse I kind of think all those years at Michalow State stud in Poland did this to him, I try to get him to break a rule every now and then just to be cheeky.
Every boy I have had has been different but every boy should be respected and I expect respect in Return.
Louisa |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Sirius
Bronze Member
England
102 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2010 : 08:20:36 AM
|
| "He was very contrite the minute he had done it (and got a boot up the bum, ........ no doubt disapprove of, but that is how a mare would have disciplined him, and my welly-shod foot did a lot less damage to his well-muscled behind than his teeth did to my leg!)."
Well, I don't disapprove! Firstly it is exactly how a mare would have disciplined him, and secondly every interaction confirms, sets up or changes the pecking order between each person and each horse. Beware of steel toecaps, and don't kick legs, but if you are going to talk horse you have to talk horse.
I make sure that every foal kicks me from close range: foal because they are usually more tentative the first time and close range because it does no damage in the "sweeping" phase whereas the "punch" phase is dangerous. If they haven't done it by the time they are weaning, I will hassle them until they do. The purpose is to establish that this is a very bad thing for them to do. Soft wellies, a swift kick to the backside - calculated, not in anger, you know the situation before you set it up. That says: "if you kick me I kick you back."
Then I follow them in with a second kick. That says: "I can kick you though you can't kick me."
They chew, they get a stroke from me. That says: "I'm not going to hurt you even though I'm above you in the kicking order."
edited to add: You also have to control the setup carefully. You can't do this in a large space where the foal can run away from you and you have to chase it. A safe space with no obstructions, no sharp edges, no loose buckets ... It has to be a quick moment in a conversation, not an "incident".
This is not for the novice to try without instruction, and you have to know what is going to happen before it does. It is a calculated lesson and worth every second in terms of safety. It is completely unharmful to the foal. They are most comfortable when below you in the heirarchy, as the more dominant horse makes the decisions. It makes it safe for you to cuddle and lie down with them if that's what you want to do, and to massage them while they are down.
We have just one of Hanson's offspring for whom this has not worked: Seren Vega, now a 16hh gelding, simply never responded by kicking at me. Now 10 yo, and I gave up trying to provoke it when it began to be dangerous if he did! He's the one I am most on my guard with if he injures his hinds. There was no damage inflicted on any of us when he had his awful hind pastern injury, but he was nowhere near as cooperative as any of the others would have been.
As to colts and stallions, the front and rear ends both have involuntary strike zones when the boy is excited, different for each horse, and a beginner or relative novice has to observe the way he does this - just as the professional does - to work out where is safe and where is not WHEN HE IS AROUSED OR JUST INTERACTING WITH OTHER HORSES (not jus when he is having a go at you.) The professionals I have watched (and I am not one) seem to have a generalised zone picture of "a stallion" that is quickly and constantly adjusted. It is this ability that sets them apart from the rest of us. I have also never seen a stallion man standing "on his heels".
Seren Hanos is off to the States now he has been fully weaned for over a month, and the flight has changed so we have just 2 days before departure instead of 5. We are now into loading as opposed to wandering in and out of the horsebox ad lib, so he is learning about "this is what is going to happen now." Yesterday he had a swipe at me, and it took just one response from me plus a think from him to reestablish things and get everything back on track. Noone is going to delay a flight for a little colt, and he will find the manual guidance into the flying crate perfectly familiar and therefore much less stressful.
There is a huge difference between normal horse language and anger, and it is really important to think about what you are going to say and how to say it rather than blurting out!
Dom |
Edited by - Sirius on 12 Feb 2010 08:29:26 AM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Suelin
Platinum Member
England
2514 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2010 : 09:23:38 AM
|
I may have misinterpreted your post Dom but I think you are saying that you set up a situation to make your youngster kick you in order that you can kick it back, and then kick it again. Why??? If it doesn't want to kick you in the first place, why would you want to make it? I don't understand that logic at all I'm afraid. My youngster doesn't kick, never wanted to and I have never kicked him. I just don't understand your reasoning at all. Just making a point for the sake of it isn't IMO good horsemanship. Sorry.
edited to add that this is a very interesting thread indeed. |
Edited by - Suelin on 12 Feb 2010 09:24:52 AM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2010 : 09:39:49 AM
|
I agree with Suelin here.
Some of the stuff in this thread leaves me reeling-- Sirius, you seem to be assuming that all horses at some time will want to kick you, so lets get it over with when they are small enough to kick them back without it being dangerous? And then kick them again for good measure. How sad that you make the assumption that all horses are bound to kick you at some time.
In my experience, very few properly brought up horses will ever want to kick their human friends,especially Arabs, and there are much better ways to establish yourself higher in the hierarchy than kicking foals. And no better way to confuse a foal, and teach it to distrust you, than hassling and provoking it to kick you, and then punishing it for doing so. Absolutely astounding!
Perhaps you trust Seren Vega least, who didn't kick you, because he was a kind hearted horse who you confused utterly with your "hassling" him to try to make him kick you, and he now distrusts you, wondering when you might start "provoking" him again. |
|
Edited by - Zan on 12 Feb 2010 12:37:04 PM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Reality Check
