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Zenitha
Gold Member
England
1078 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Feb 2010 : 8:00:04 PM
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Very interesting thread 
Particularly interesting are Emma's comments relating to situations where a number of stallions are kept in close proximity. Would it be accurate to say that stallions kept amongst other stallions are likely to be more 'highly charged' than stallions kept as the only entire on the stud ?
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2010 : 8:08:52 PM
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Well perhaps I have been very lucky then  , I can wear perfume, Never carry a stick pipe or anything else I have lived with this stallion day in day out for 12 years and the one before for 5 years plus many colts , I have obviously been dicing with death and will continue to do so till one puts me in a box then you can all have the last laugh |
   
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2010 : 8:16:12 PM
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| in answer to your post zenitha , Charismma's Son Narismma is as soft as his dad , lives with many other stallions , and I dont think they carry a stick with him , well I have never seen them carry one , but I have seen their young daughter when she was about 5 years old leading him around in a head coller |
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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susan p
Gold Member
Scotland
915 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2010 : 8:20:14 PM
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Lynda,I don't think its luck I think you have a special relationship with your boy,based on mutal respect and trust.
IMO some of the others on this thread are jealous of that relationship and because of their feelings of inadequacy are attacking your views as being non-professional!
(the plastic pipe club!!) |
www.blackislearabians.com
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the ways its animals are treated
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Jamana
Gold Member
England
682 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2010 : 8:37:11 PM
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| Lyndilou,Look I know some stallions can be docile in fact one which I looked after was like a gelding to deal with but sometimes he would spark into life,Yours is I guess that sort,I do think TB stallions live a different sort of life to others mostly live alone seeing but not going near another horse only to cover a mare or try her,this is due to the value of these stallions.The people who allowed a five year old girl to lead around a stallion on a head collar do they also let her play with the dogs unattended?Only a very foolish person would allow that to happen.Does your stallion always try to bite you?As most do,if he does how do you stop him perhaps by jabbing him in the mouth all the time as Ive seen that a lot in the Arab world,BTW this is MrJ. |
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Jamana
Gold Member
England
682 Posts |
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karen d
Gold Member
United Kingdom
847 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2010 : 8:41:04 PM
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I too have the same relationship with my stallion as you do with yours linda. he lives out with geldings all year round, is ridden alone and in company and is led around and brushed by the children(supervised!!)
I never worry about what perfume i am wearing, most of the time i smell of horse muck anyway!! BUT when we are covering mares i ALWAYS carry a stick and ALWAYS will.
My boy certainly isnt frightened of it, but knows that when i have it he has to listen to ME at all times and not whats going on in his pants!!
ALWAYS better to be safe than sorry in my eyes |
www.gkjarabians.co.uk |
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pat day
Moderator
United Kingdom
5324 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2010 : 8:44:52 PM
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In my opinion, Stallions should be respected at all times, as they should us, !!!! too.
Lets keep it civil folk, so the thread can run. Pleaseeee.
Thanks in advance. |
       
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~TREASURES AT TEMPLEWOOD~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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jaj
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4324 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2010 : 8:47:21 PM
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I have to pipe up here and say that Charismma (Lynda's stallion) has the most amazing disposition and I cannot imagine him biting Lynda in a million years! When I first met him, he was on his yard surrounded by his mares and I sat in the stable underneath his head as he dozed above me. He leads the most fantastic life with turnout and companions which is why I suspect he is so lovely to handle.
The TB's sounds as though they lead a miserable existance ~ no bloomin wonder they try and bite people .
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Kuraishiya (Maleik el Kheil/Kazra el Saghira) and Sahara Bey (Kuraishiya/WSA Charismma) |
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Jamana
Gold Member
England
682 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2010 : 9:00:31 PM
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Would it be accurate to say that stallions kept amongst other stallions are likely to be more 'highly charged' than stallions kept as the only entire on the stud ?
Zenitha, I don't think that the presence of other stallions will greatly affect a horses behaviour.Once again it all comes down to temperament. It is unusual on a TB stud to only have one stallion on the yard. Even if the only have one 'official' stallion they will have a teaser and they seem to be unaffected by each others antics. Basically if a stallion is going to react to horses passing his stable etc he will do so regardless of their sex.
The nasty stallion I had would agressively come to his door if ANY horse came past. He would try and pull you toward the horses in their stable if you were leading him past and you had to go very wide to avoid this. But he was a nasty horse and would try and attack me and the mare he was covering. He esp hated covering outside and would start to lose his temper when we turned to go to cover outside instead of in the barn. The very rampant stallion was not esp bothered by horses walking past his stable (obv not right next to it) he would always come to his door and look but nothing more.
You can aggravate a stallions reaction to horses near his stable by trying mares over his door. Something I have been amazed to see since I have been doing 'local' coverings. You should always try at a board or over a rubber-clad gate. Always in hand, NEVER loose. |
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Jamana
Gold Member
England
682 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2010 : 9:03:22 PM
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The TB's sounds as though they lead a miserable existance ~ no bloomin wonder they try and bite people .
Do they? where as this been intimated? Further up this thread Helen mentioned the Juddmonte stallions and the fact they live out 24/7 all summer. They come in to cover their mares and do their work and go back out. They have good temps, but their men have sticks. |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
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karen d
Gold Member
United Kingdom
847 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2010 : 9:08:40 PM
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Agree with you completly Jamana, surely its common sense.
i Have VERY strict rules about covering in hand with my boy.we have a very high, very solid covering board that we use for trying and serving. the ONLY time our stallion goes to that board is when he has a job to do, and the ONLY time he gets do do the job in hand is when he is at that board. (if that makes sense!!)
his stable is his quiet place, and for sharing with his 'boyfriends'!!
I would also like to point out that he also runs with my own mares quite happily,
And the only thing he ever uses his teeth for is stuffing his face!!! |
www.gkjarabians.co.uk |
Edited by - karen d on 09 Feb 2010 9:10:12 PM |
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jaj
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4324 Posts |
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pat day
Moderator
United Kingdom
5324 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2010 : 9:19:04 PM
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Right, can we agree to differ!!!
Some will be boys, and some will be gentlemen.
This topic is going round in circles and serves no point, unless it can be moved on, to run. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~TREASURES AT TEMPLEWOOD~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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firstlady
Gold Member
Wales
767 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2010 : 9:24:16 PM
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Just another thought but should stallions that have aggressive tendencies be used as sires ?
other traits of the sire and dam be passed on ? |
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Cate
Platinum Member
Scotland
1785 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2010 : 9:48:01 PM
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Susanp. I think what you have written is uncalled for and quite honestly I'm absolutely aghast at such a reply.
I'm certainly not jealous of Lynda. I had a wonderful relationship with my black, he spoke to me, followed me in his field, watched for me coming out of the house and would call to me and belt over to say hello. We always knew when there were visitors as he would make a noise. He ran with his mares for covering and was in the field next to them as is my present stallion. The stallion I have now was kept in a showing yard but has absolutely blossomed since living with us and living a natural life.
Lyndilou, I think perhaps you're taking this thread too personally and should take what Jamana is posting as the advice that needs to be given so that newcomers know what possibly can happen and how stallions can, and some do, behave. We are fortunate that our stallions are so chilled and nice to be around.
A vet when he came out to my R Ali Bey stallion couldn't believe how nice tempered he was and commented on another Arab stallion up this way that had a dreadful temperament. I also had a lady bring her TB mare to be covered and she couldn't get over how lovely he was and that he would allow her and her children to pet him and didn't bite them, unlike another Arab stallion she knew. When he hurt himself in the field my vet sent the physio out. When she realized he was not only an Arab, but a stallion the horror on her face could not be hidden. She was scared to go into his stable. Fortunately, my friend who is a TTeam practitioner told her along with me that he wouldn't do anything to her. She went in and was pulling his tail in all directions and then came out and rented me some heat pad. She said most of the Arabs she had dealt with were difficult and could be nasty. She went away with a totally different opinion after dealing with my chap. The same with the stallion I now have. My farrier's wife was chatting to me while I was standing holding Ahanu. She then said "is he a stallion?" When I said yes her answer was "this is how I think all stallions should be". He is one chilled chappie.
It is unfortunate that this thread is being spoiled by people taking what Jumana is posting the wrong way. Jumana has only put forward his experience with stallions and being a "stallion man" should be appreciated. After all, he has the experience of many different stallions.
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Jamana
Gold Member
England
682 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2010 : 10:04:16 PM
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Maybe not for riding horses where temp is everything really, for the ease of day to day care for future owners and general usefulness.
Racing is a different story though, where it is ability on the track that counts above anything else (perhaps because owners don't have to actually deal with the animal?!)
The nasty stallion OH had was Champion sire (National Hunt) several times. He himself fell in a race when well clear, another horse went past him as the jockey was remounting. He got up and acclerated jumped the final fence and won by a head. He passed his tenacity on to his stock which no doubt helped them to win many championship races inc the Grand National. His own sire killed himself by biting his own front open.
The very kind quiet stallion was a flop as a racing sire as he didn't get anything with much will to win. He was exported to Holland and became a sucessful SJ sire. That horse was a British Classic winner with an exceptional pedigree and loads of ability but didn't want to put the effort in in his races.
Some have temp issues and don't make it. Another one of OH's had a very nervous temp and passed this on to such an extent that many of his stock were virtually unrideable. 
As I said at the beginning of this post though, breeding a 'normal' horse temp should be first priority, at least equal to conformation imo.
Helen |
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Jamana
Gold Member
England
682 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2010 : 10:11:49 PM
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Thank you for that Cate, I really don't think that the points myself and OH are trying to make are massively different to anyone elses views. We are all perhaps closer together in thought than it may appear.
I am afraid that in OH's world everything is black or white with little in the way of grey! He can be rather direct in the way he puts things, but if you can look through that (as Cate and some others obv can) there is a lot of merit in what he is saying. |
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jaj
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4324 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2010 : 10:18:24 PM
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It's very interesting definitely! Every day is a school day .
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Kuraishiya (Maleik el Kheil/Kazra el Saghira) and Sahara Bey (Kuraishiya/WSA Charismma) |
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Cate
Platinum Member
Scotland
1785 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2010 : 10:32:03 PM
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Jamana, you're very welcome. Thoroughly enjoy both your posts.
As Jaj says "every day is a school day" to be digested and stored and used if needed. None of us know when or if this information will be of use to us, but far better to have it. As they say forewarned is forearmed. |
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Edited by - Cate on 09 Feb 2010 10:53:30 PM |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2010 : 10:36:55 PM
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| Originally posted by Jamana
Racing is a different story though, where it is ability on the track that counts above anything else (perhaps because owners don't have to actually deal with the animal?!)
The nasty stallion OH had was Champion sire (National Hunt) several times. He himself fell in a race when well clear, another horse went past him as the jockey was remounting. He got up and acclerated jumped the final fence and won by a head. He passed his tenacity on to his stock which no doubt helped them to win many championship races inc the Grand National. His own sire killed himself by biting his own front open.
The very kind quiet stallion was a flop as a racing sire as he didn't get anything with much will to win. He was exported to Holland and became a sucessful SJ sire. That horse was a British Classic winner with an exceptional pedigree and loads of ability but didn't want to put the effort in in his races.
Helen
Helen has a major point here. There is a BIG difference between the way TB sires have been selected - and so passed their genes on - and the way Arabs have been selected over the centuries.
In the TB, the will to win - a modified form of aggression - is paramount amongst selection criteria. Temperament usually doesn't enter into the equation. OTOH, the Bedouin selected *their* stallions for equable temperament amongst other horses AND safety around humans. To put it simply, the TBs with the modified form of aggression got the mares, the Arabs who showed himself 'forceful' to other horses and humans got eaten or sold to India and so didn't perpetuate themselves!
The end result within the breeds is the logical outcome of generations of selection for different qualities within the male - TBs are *on the whole* sharp, Arabs are *on the whole* laid back. Doesn't mean there can't be exceptions, though.
Since I became a stallion owner I have given up perfume (a big sacrifice!). I admit to not carrying a stick on the yard, but always would at shows. The good thing about a plastic pipe is that it makes a noise when it comes in contact with the horse, so has more effect than simply the force of the strike. It sounds a human as well as sensible precaution.
That said, I try to treat my boys as much like ordinary horses as possible, and not like potential sex-murderers
Keren |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2010 : 08:10:13 AM
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what worries me is new people may actually take all this bunkum in and believe Arabian stallions are vicious creatures who cant be trusted , I am here to say that given the right treatment AND respect that they can!
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www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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jillandlomond
Platinum Member
Scotland
3586 Posts |
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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2010 : 08:20:09 AM
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Susan P, I feel your comments are totally uncalled for I ask you to read the whole thread which is very informative. Please to not make light of a subject opened because someone lost his life. I do not feel any inadequacies and will be a life long member of the 'plastic pipe club' if, for no other reason, that I am someone's mother and what happened that day with Sinan Bey can never happen again. My family do not deserve to see that ever again !
Lynda, we all know how you feel about Charismma and your posts show him to be a truely exceptional tempered stallion BUT this isn't a personal crusade to show the forum how great he is. Please add your experiences with him BUT respect the others out there who have far more far reaching experience with stallions. Your relationship with Charismma is purely fairytale and I'm sure many of us envy that but it is not real life. I hope Royal Justice will be the same but I'm sure other tactics will have to employed when he starts his breeding career. Nothing personal, but there will be people reading this and hanging on your every word and perhaps thinking this is how a stallion will be........people it won't !!
Anyway off to deal with 12 mares and 4 males today.......the 4 males will take longer than all the mares put together !! |
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Topic |
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Reality Check
, and he is not like a gelding at all but a full blooded male,
