| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Jan 2010 : 10:47:51 PM
|
Obviously, Russian/OEng works, as Russians are primarily Egyptian/OEng with a dasj Polish and French! 
Keren |
Report to Moderator  |
|
|
honey
Platinum Member
N. Ireland
2634 Posts |
|
|
alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2010 : 12:42:56 PM
|
Minhe
the addition of Eygptian and Russian would bring back a lot of OE blood.Seems a good idea to outcross at the same time as keeping important genes. |
    
blue moon |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Paulette
Bronze Member
England
173 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2010 : 2:08:29 PM
|
I too remember Harkem when he as at stud at Alison Hardcastle's Mill Farm Arabians in Norfolk. He was a lovely horse with a super temperament and I think I also saw him being ridden at the AHS Nationals - will have to look out my photos.
I have the 94% Crabbet Stallion Silmalia Blue by Silver Blue and out of an Al Malik mare, Gamalia, who traces to Nuhra. He has Silver Blue's fantastic movement and was 2nd at the AHS Nationals as a 2 year old, which needless to say I was over the moon about and a nervous wreck standing next to Emma Maxwell!! Blue is a lovely ride as was his sire who I used to ride when he was at stud with Tanya Betts mum and dad.
Blue has not been used at stud but I have a Courthouse descendent who I would love to use him on but I hope she will prove herself under saddle first. Shakira is by Bay Dream (Kubinec x a Sanadik El Shaklan mare)and out of the stunningly beautiful Saffron who is by the Polish stallion Flet and out of Sobah (who traces to Musgrave Clarke's Sappho with the addition of the Spanish Ghadames and Eqyptian Shakhs).
Trouble is both Blue and I are getting on in years and I would have to find a fantastic home for the progeny.
Paulette
Silmalia Blue
Shakira Bint Dream
|
        |
Edited by - Paulette on 12 Jan 2010 08:37:07 AM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2010 : 2:26:54 PM
|
Wow judith, where have you been hiding Badour!
Thankyou Honeybunch for those figures! As you say worryingly low.
Talking about Australian imports, anyone after a 100% carbbet stallion to use, should check out Erin Park Excel, he is stunning! |
pagey |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Jamana
Gold Member
England
682 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2010 : 5:12:36 PM
|
Paulette, what a lovely stallion Blue is! A really useful looking 'doing' type and beautiful with it. A horse you could imagine riding all day every day for years  |
     |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Ziadomira
Platinum Member
England
1635 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2010 : 7:22:17 PM
|
Breeding to an outcross is fine but you have to remember that as soon as you use a horse that is not 100%OE or 100% Crabbet on your 100% OE or Crabbet respectively then you will never get the 100% back again. You will always have something less than 100%.
This is not the case with GSB. GSB Crossed with a non GSB produces a nothing as GSB does not include a classification for anything apart from pure GSB.
It is important to keep a good stock of 100% pure horses in each category as once lost it can never be regained.
Ziadomira GSB O/E and 90%+ Crabbet |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Cate
Platinum Member
Scotland
1785 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2010 : 08:59:47 AM
|
Surely using Egyptian is not diluting after all Crabbet/Old English comes from the desert, or it should do.
I know some, as is shown on allbreeds if you trace right back have had other breeds mated with them i.e. Turkoman, TB, Prussian etc., which dilutes, but this was way back. Must say I couldn't believe it when I looked back on one mare I had and it came through a French line in her Russian dam. To keep on about diluting the Crabbet/OE lines is folly when they quite often need an injection of type/desert dryness from the tap root i.e. Egyptian. JMHO |
 |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Treasure
Silver Member
England
442 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2010 : 10:47:41 AM
|
A lot of the 'foreign', therefore imported breeding has OE roots - see 'Arabian Exodus' and other sources. Therefore the SE, Russian, Australian blood is not really diluting but bringing back in lines that hereto have been lost to this country. That is healthy I would have thought - so long as you know what the lines actually are and maintain purity of the breed and then it's down to the particular lines each breeder has preferences for. I am personally sceptical about some (clearly not all!) of the horses from the USA as I'm not convinced about the purity of the lines (have heard some rumours  ?
It is often obvious from individual horses where their pedigrees come from and Paulette's photos are examples of a high %age Crabbet stallion (isn't he lovely!) and a mare from the Courthouse lines, Shakira, and it shows!
At the end of the day it is personal choice. Jingo mentioned her mare Johara A'Taj who is full sister to my Khazana - but they are completely different so the genes manifest themselves differently in each horse. Same as I'm quite different from my brother . I personally think the 'old bloodlines' should be maintained and there are some superb examples of real quality horses from those lines (Daas being a fabulous example) but not to the exclusion of horses that can improve the breed. Where would modern breeding be without Carmargue and El Shaklan for example, as well as the wonderful Crabbet horses?
Fashions and money dictate modern breeding sadly  and not always for the better. JMHO! |
Carolyn
Johaara Arabians |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2010 : 10:50:56 AM
|
Cate is reflected a view of many -that these precious horses are under-used and the bloodlines with wither in a time warp if contained in a statistic.
Likewise there is the other extreme where a mare can now be concentrated Padron/Beyshah being bred to same which narrows the gene pool .
IMO the UK breeders could have the same results as the breeder of WH Justice by using very typey stallions on OE/Crabbet mares-they are here in this country too . |
blue moon |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Di Ellis
Silver Member
United Kingdom
415 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2010 : 11:27:15 PM
|
Nikki,
Marbon Mead is in foal to Erin Park Excel - I am really excited about the possibility of breeding a bay (El Sharluke has bay behind him through Sengoran) and to regain some of the lines that went out to Australia.
I have also re-purchased the last daughter of Roselinda who had a filly by Marbon Maestro that was sold as a 2 year old. She is Crabbet/OE and has been covered by Marbon Masadi. The dam of Maestro was Rushmere's Fire Fly (my foundation mare) who was also the dam of Mayfly. The mare is called Meganne and through Maestro I have regained my very first Crabbet Stallion, Golden Khalifa, bred by Mrs. Archer. She is only 10 years old and so hopefully will give me back some of my old bloodlines to cross with my modern ones. I have also considered putting her to a Courthouse stallion as she is not 100% crabbet. |
D.S. Ellis
Somerset
marbonarabians@yahoo.co.uk |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
kathleen
Platinum Member
England
1835 Posts |
|
|
gu-ku-vi
Gold Member
Denmark
744 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2010 : 10:44:36 AM
|
What a lovely tread!!! Good Luck Diane hope you will have a filly out of Mead.
I am still around, but I am not doing so much in it anylonger, mostly because that it is so difficult to find stallions here in DK, as the only crabbets we have is Lenny and now my Meadley. After all I have done my share telling about the Crabbets and the Old English.
There are stallions here that I would love to use, but as I said it is very expensive as the mares has to travel all the way from DK and the sales of Crabbet is not the best as the arabian world don´t think so much in the use of the horses but more in the shows. Be greatfull that you have your crabbetclasses over there.
Meadley is now 2½ years old and will in the summer start some training and I think we will try him once at Silver Zara Saint, just to be sure that he is fertile.
I am not expecting any foals in 2010, will take the break to do something with the horses and foals instead.
I have done my homework and have them all, except the foals, testet for CA and they are all clear. The foals will be testet to this year if not Diane has Mastarifah testet. Think you all should have a though about that to, as there is some crabbet around, who carries the gen. I know of a girl who had breed a carrier to a carrier whitout knowing and she is very worried, until the foal is born summer 2010 and she can have it testet.
Here are some pics of Meadley, he is a bit fat,(pictures not good as usual,) but that is good with the winter we have, -15 degrees was it that day, later we have one more bunch of snow and eveything was closed, the fence disappeared in snow, but now it seems that it will not be worser, in fact it is much warmer to day only -5.
GKV Meadley 100% crabbet
GKV Sami
100% crabbet, also 2½ years old now and will be a little under saddle in the summer
The foals in oct. GKV Honey Bun on the left.
100% Crabbet out of Silver Zara Saint and
GKV Pounds of Fun out of Marbon Martini, Crabbet/Old English.
Both after Marbon Mastarifah.
All of them having fun in the snow
And another of Sami,I love her so much she has the sweet, sweet temper from Lenny same goes for Meadley, so sad with the scid as it was a perfect match. After all I was so lucky that i got Sami.
KR Gunni.
ps. in fact I am responsible for 3 100% and 1 OE in 2009, as Dianes mares was covered in my place.
|
Edited by - gu-ku-vi on 14 Jan 2010 10:47:00 AM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2010 : 12:27:54 PM
|
Hiya Di,
Wow that is fantastic news-fingers xcd for that bay filly, should be a spectacular looking foal with those parents!
So pleased for you that you've been able to get another of your breeding back-great news!
Gunni lovely to see some pics of your gorjus horses, hope you have lots of fun "doing" stuff this year. |
pagey |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
kathleen
Platinum Member
England
1835 Posts |
|
|
Cate
Platinum Member
Scotland
1785 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2010 : 12:59:41 PM
|
| Gunni ..Gorgeous horses. You must be so pleased with them. Lovely to see you back on AL posting. |
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
alan
Silver Member
England
434 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2010 : 8:59:48 PM
|
We'd like to add our crabbet/old english stallion. I've had Crystal Magic (Silvern Sceptre x Crystal Lazuli) for 11yrs. We've outcrossed him on a mix of Polish, Crabbet, Spanish, Egyptian & Russian mares & have been very pleased with the results. We are going to try him with a straight English mare in the future but haven't been lucky enough to date. We have 3 of his babies still at home, S A Eternal Spirit (x Nahema), his full sister S A Khindred Spirit who has been sold for endurance & leaves us next weekend & S A Rossiahs Spirit (x Rossiah) who was known last year as orphan Rose by anyone who read the thread.
 |
  
www.spirit-arabians.co.uk |
Edited by - alan on 18 Jan 2010 01:41:23 AM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Mrs Vlacq
Platinum Member
Wales
3776 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2010 : 9:33:01 PM
|
| Love your lad Paulette such a classy looking man! Fingers crossed his future wife will cooperate! |
    
- V Khazad - V Calacirya & V Sulime - Quarida(L) - V Boogie Knights - V Hamra Tofiq |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Paulette
Bronze Member
England
173 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2010 : 09:52:39 AM
|
Thank you so much for your lovely comments about Silmalia Blue and Shakira. They are my pride and joy along with my mare by Arastin.
I looked back at some old photos and I think this is Harkem at Ascot. Perhaps someone on AL can confirm. Not sure what year but will try and look back in the old AHS News.
Paulette
 |
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Gerri
Platinum Member
England
4211 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2010 : 09:58:29 AM
|
I have to agree with all said in the above posts fabulous horses and what a dishy guy!!!!! My foundation mare known affectionately as Milly is Old English with one line of polish will try to post a picture but please remember they are snapshots and I am a useless photographer |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Gerri
Platinum Member
England
4211 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2010 : 10:09:50 AM
|
Here she is in the summer, she had just rolled and given herself a sand bath and I had ownly had the black mare a week then |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
lisa rachel
Gold Member
Wales
831 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2010 : 11:00:04 AM
|
Paulette,
Your stallion is absolutely lovely and he is has very good breeding (imo).It is a real shame he has not been used at stud ( sorry, I don't mean that to sound like I'm telling you what to do, I'm sure he has had a very happy life and is very precious to you).
Have you thought about collecting and freezing semen from him?
I was looking for a Crabbet O/E stallion last year, there are still some lovely stallions around but many are old gents now and very few are available by AI ( which was what I needed).
Frozen semen is a bit of a pain but if we could get some of these lovely older stallions collected and frozen we have a bit of a gene bank stored and have bought ourselves a bit of time, in a few years we will have lost the all the stallions from the 80's.
Just a few examples of that cohort... the late Imad, Mareschal, Spearmint, Indian Idyll, Eaglescliffe, Winged Saint, Silver Blue Ludo, Silva Dollar etc etc
It is surprising what good quality semen can be collected and frozen from older stallions ( though of course not all stallions freeze well).
The batch of Spearmint's semen that I have used was excellent and I also got a 20yo mare in foal to frozen semen from Imperial Zar (also 20) last year.
Of course re-introducing blood from horses exported in the past eg to Russia, Australia, using Egyptian horses etc is useful. But it seems to me we are at the eleventh hour in terms of actually saving the original wellspring of blood that we have here.
cheers
Lisa |
lisa |
Edited by - lisa rachel on 18 Jan 2010 11:12:14 AM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
|
|
kastell
Silver Member
France
430 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2010 : 2:55:36 PM
|
| I agree with your thoughts too Lisa! Indian Banner is available by frozen semen he's 28 this year! I was looking through the Crabbet Convention 2002 book & was wondering if anyone ever used the stallion "Indian Fanfare" (Rafid x Indian Miracle), as it mentioned he didn't have any purebred foals back then or Naraan (Bayazar x Rosmeen) another tail female line to Nurha? I am sure there are several very well bred Crabbet / OE stallions that aren't used that are still in the UK, Spirit of Silver (Ludomino x Silver Sheen) springs to mind, now 24 & as far as I'm aware he only has 1 100% Crabbet offspring who is a gelding, which is crazy seeing he's a son of Silver Sheen & half brother to Sport Horse legend in the US Magic Domino! I just wonder how many others there are that have disappeared off of the radar so to speak! |
      |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
mogwai
Platinum Member
England
2717 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2010 : 6:59:47 PM
|
Gorgeous pictures of your lovely horses, as ever Gunni!
Alan, your boy is superb. I remember the story about Rose. How is she now?
Ros |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Topic |
|
Our English Heritage-where are they?
