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Lisa
Platinum Member
 United Kingdom
2611 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Sep 2003 : 11:05:40 AM
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Does anyone on here have any information, stud books etc. giving details on Russian Bloodlines as I only have my AHS studbooks to go on. Hope someone can help!
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Amanda Teale
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
129 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2003 : 6:24:18 PM
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Hello lisa
There are a couple of good web site,
www.horses.ru/arabians.htm
www.janow.arabians.pl/en/ Polish but there is alot of Polish influence, also Crabbet.
Also typing "Russian Arabian Horses" pulls up some interesting sites.
good luck and have fun searching, I have found alot about my mares ancestry through these sites.
Amanda
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n/a
deleted
348 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2003 : 6:40:27 PM
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| The Russian Studbook is sometimes available at Malvern and is currently available I think from Kossack Stud in Holland.It's my bible! |
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Jingo
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3632 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2003 : 11:35:33 AM
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Hi Cass - is the Russian Studbook printed in English? Should have investigated further when over there - oh well maybe next year!!
Jude |
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Lisa
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2611 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2003 : 11:36:28 AM
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| Sounds like I'm a bit late joining you all in your passion for Russians! Done the Vodka bit tho! |
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Jingo
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3632 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2003 : 11:43:48 AM
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Never too late Lisa - don't need the Vodka to appreciate these wonderful horses. They just get under your skin and make the hair on the back of your neck tingle!!! Husband is really jealous!!Only kidding!
Jude |
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n/a
deleted
348 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2003 : 6:49:14 PM
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My copy is in English - I need to get the newer editions now though.Got mine from the AHS stand at Malvern years ago so it stops short of the horses coming out of Tersk now.
I didn't AIM for Russians (and still don't) but whenever a horse REALLY stands the hair up on the back of my neck it turns out to be a Terskie.Love the exotic Egyptians and the sound and solid Crabbets.Admire the elegance of the Poles - but EVERY time I'm tempted to reach for my wallet it's a Russian! |
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Lisa
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2611 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2003 : 8:59:38 PM
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| I know what you mean. I couldn't really say I like only Polish, Egyptian, Spanish, Russian or English, I just like what I like and every so often an individual really stands out!!!! |
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wizzy
Silver Member
United Kingdom
424 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2003 : 07:34:45 AM
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I believe you have to have what lights your fire.
There are horses with exotic faces that generally do much better at the shows and their foals are worth more if you're breeding, but I'm completely hooked on Russians!
I love their huge, bold eyes and their wonderful attitude to life. Each day I turn them out and watch them blat round.
Each to their own, but the Russians are the ones that warm MY heart.
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Paul Atkinson
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
194 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2003 : 1:30:11 PM
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Russian horses have been a part of my life for many years and I believe that they have exerted a huge influence all around the world.
I have been fortunate enough to have seen at close hand the legends, Muscat, Nariadni, Salon, Nadejni, Mag, Marsianin, Nadejni etc etc.
Then, thanks to my friends at the Kossack Stud, I was able to work with Prononce and Kapron, then Najman and Roulette RD.
Thanks to David & Bob Boggs I have ridden the most wonderful Padron, who many people consider to be Russian but his dam in fact was bred in England by Joan Ratcliff.
His son Padrons Psyche has become another superstar and I have been fortunate in being able to find and show some of his best sons and daughters.
Now there is Balaton and Kubinec and FS Bengali...the beat goes on.
Amongst the other Russian and Polish horses in our yard we now have the exotic filly NYINSKA KOSSACK (Balaton x Nereska), one of the the best I have seen.
As a whole, they are generous extroverts with fantastic temperaments and I could heartily recommend the bloodlines of Russia to anyone.
Paul |
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Liz Salmon
Bronze Member
USA
224 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2003 : 2:25:36 PM
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I too love those Russian lines. I first saw Padron's Psyche as a 2 year old, and have loved what he has produced. If anyone is interested I know of a lovely Muscat daughter for sale at a very reasonable price here in the US—approx £5,500. She is 16 and has produced some stunning foals. My daughter has a 5 year old daughter of hers in training at the moment, who has won in both Sport Horse in hand, won and was Reserve Champion in open class A Halter, and won in dressage. Liz Salmon
Elizabeth M. Salmon |
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Michelle
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3197 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2003 : 4:06:24 PM
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Hello, I have a Muscat grandaughter who is also an Aswan granddaughter (sire side) - she is gorgeous and has a nice personality. She has been racing but will be out and about in the showring next year!
Michelle
IIsis Arabians |
Edited by - Michelle on 02 Oct 2003 08:53:19 AM |
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Lisa
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2611 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2003 : 6:29:17 PM
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| She sounds fabulous Michelle, any pics????? |
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n/a
deleted
348 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2003 : 7:16:53 PM
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| Don't know of any temperament probs in the Russians to look out for,though I find they can be 'hotter' than other lines.I doubt that's a particularly valid observation though.I personally am wary of too many crosses to Aswan in a Russian pedigree as he didn't have the best legs on earth.He did add head type and his progeny were no mean hands on the racetrack.Sax Arabians Nadir 1(?) is heavily linebred to Aswan and he's a multi ch. himself and ch.producer.(I think it's Nadir - not the bay stallion ,the grey) but I haven't seen him in the flesh so can't put a personal rating on him.I prefer the Nabeg lines for soundness,and the studmasters of Tersk have been crossing the two lines,Aswan and Nabeg, for years resulting in some of the very best Russian Arabians to be found.I also like a touch of Salon in a Russian pedigree(he mostly appears through his best known sons,Muscat and Moment though he had plenty of daughters) because SOME of that line carry the incredible movement that makes everyone SCREAM when Vodolej trots.(He has Salon - on his dam's side I think it is.)I believe the dramatic movement comes from further back in the pedigree to a stallion called Skyrzyp but other than Salon his descendants are seldom seen.I have spotted a few over the years and they did have that extraordinary movement but no Salon in there - just Skyrzyp.The Salon line seems to be less popular these days and the classic Aswan / Nabeg cross in varying shades is dominating the market.I've seen some truly AWFUL heads from the Salon lines and this could be why (although you certainly could never call Muscat plain!) it hasn't as many representatives but golly gosh they can MOVE! |
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Paul Atkinson
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
194 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2003 : 7:33:29 PM
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Cass
SKRZYP is Polish 'n I never heard of him being responsible for movement - what makes you think so? Also Muscat did not have the dishiest of heads....a great horse though and the sire of some beauts!
Paul |
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Alyssa
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
123 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2003 : 8:50:35 PM
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Hi all,
I agree about Russians. There are some lovely horses out there, but nothing does it for me like a Russian arab. It's funny, but whenever I see a horse I REALLY like it always turns out to be Russian. I like their power and athletisism-they just look fantastic like they can do any job-showing, endurance, hunting, jumping or just hacking. I agree with Cass that they can be hotter than any other lines. My mare is 7/8 Russian, the other 8th being Polish and she is so hot at times that she is almost on fire!! In fact when I first had her she terrified me as I had never owned an arab like it-talk about firey!She has Salon and Moment in her pedigree and can't half move!! Am really looking forward to finally (after 7 years) getting her out to do some dressage over the winter, and then maybe some showing in the spring. Love to see her move in the field, all that power with her tail kinked over her back just takes my breath away.
Gemma
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Kerry Wilson
Silver Member
United Kingdom
280 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2003 : 8:50:49 PM
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| Well I would say in Vodolej's case the action comes from monogramma? |
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Kerry Wilson
Silver Member
United Kingdom
280 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2003 : 9:01:22 PM
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Hello Gemma, glad you finally got hold of Angie. Both Gorbys parents were 'movers' but Begonia was one of those 'wind up' horses that would trot for ever, typical Moment, possibly Salon added something but I always assumed it was from his dam Malpia a Priboj dtr.
Anyone interested in the breeding characteristics of the Tersk sire lines could try to obtain any of the following - Arabian Horse World, November 1981, 'Pieces of Perfection' booklet or the videos 'The Immortal treasure' and 'Creating the Immortal Treasure' |
Edited by - Kerry Wilson on 02 Oct 2003 07:57:53 AM |
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n/a
deleted
348 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2003 : 9:53:42 PM
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There is movement and movement.I think(sorry Sally - I really do love him to bits too!) that we can safely say Vodafone isn't THE greatest stallion ever to grace the earth for looks and conformation but that movement makes you forget 'petty details' like that when you watch him!In further apology to Sally - he's one of the NICEST people to ever wear a stallions balls...
Anyway back to the point - there's a pattern to that spectacular hair raising movement(I believe Pat Lyndsey{sic} once called it "peculiar bicycling") and it ONLY occurs when (yes you're right Paul - he's Polish) Skyrzyp appears in the pedigree.There's plenty dramatic movers on plenty diverse backgrounds but that 'style' belongs to ONE line only.I first noticed it on the Salon line -and admired it.Then I saw it elsewhere.Hmm I thought - where's that coming from.Traced back the pedigrees of the culprits and BINGO - found a common denominator.It's late,I'm tired and I mix up names without the references in front of me but Odaliska springs to mind...Anyway - Skyrzyp was the name that kept coming up behind these HUGE movers.I've seen it in Polish horses (though more rarely) and he was behind them.I'm guessing that the cream of that crop was pinched along with a lot of others when the Russians did the 'evacuation' of the Polish studs.
That's why Paul!
Sorry Kerry - Monogramma - though a great mare of the Mammona line - did not per se create a line of 'movers' the way Skyrzyp did.You need to go back further...and see a wider variety.Tricky to do in Europe - America has more to see.I've been researching -as a hobby - Arabians and their pedigrees for a LOT more years than I care to admit... |
Edited by - n/a on 01 Oct 2003 9:57:52 PM |
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wizzy
Silver Member
United Kingdom
424 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2003 : 10:27:31 PM
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Magdalina is out of Moskwa, by Suvenir - who was full brother to Salon. |
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n/a
deleted
348 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2003 : 10:32:36 PM
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| Wizzy has another example - and who can deny Magdalena's movement! |
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Michelle
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3197 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2003 : 09:14:44 AM
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Lisa, no pictures yet - you will see her next year. I plan on training her over the winter, and I may put her in foal and then bring her out. She is used to racing so she shouldn't get too stressed out by showing.
For those interested in Russian pedigrees, here is a slice of hers
Sire Desant: by Aswan out of Natuma who is by Moment and out of Natur****sa by Arax.
Dam Pomarka: by Muscat out of Poprigunia who is by Pomeranets out of Panel.
This is my first straight Russian, the only problem is I can't ever remember the names they are so hard to pronounce!
Michelle
IIsis Arabians |
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Sally Etchells
Gold Member
United Kingdom
738 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2003 : 09:33:59 AM
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Cass
No apology necessary - as I've said many times Vodolej is far from perfect  but I totally agree - he is one of the nicest people I've ever dealt with -  Love him or hate him he just has such an enthusiastic love of life - he's a very happy horse and that's all I care about 
On another note I been told it's the Mashuk line that the movement comes from. E.g Gips, Distancia etc
Sal |
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Paul Atkinson
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
194 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2003 : 12:51:43 PM
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I think this thread tends to prove one thing...no one horse can be responsible for producing a single characteristic in contemporary bloodstock.
Imagine just how prepotent a horse would have to be to outshine the influence of 127 other names in only a seven generation pedigree.
However, when the individual's name begins to repeat in a pedigree (ie linebreeding) the chances of his/her characteristics appearing may be increased.
The thread also confirms that if 50 breeders sit down in a room - there will be 49 different opinions!
Paul |
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Michelle
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3197 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2003 : 2:37:14 PM
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bloody nora - this forum deleted half the name out of my pedigree!
ha ha , thats funny - as i wrote it I thought 'what a strange name' but I don't suppose 'sh1t' is a swearword in Russia!
Michelle
IIsis Arabians |
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Alyssa
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
123 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2003 : 4:09:24 PM
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Hi Kerry,
Yes, I did manage to get hold of Angie, she said that she would love to come and visit Buzzi at some stage as she has relatives in our area and said that she would dig out some pictures for me also. You are always welcome to come too of course!
Buzz is really well at the moment, and we are enjoying hacking out in the mornings with her absolutely full of herself spooking at every oppotunity! I promise to send you some pics once we have done our first dressage tests-soon I hope! I'm really looking forward to it, although we need to get back into the hang of this schooling lark!
Take care and I'll try to keep in touch!
Gemma and Buzzi
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