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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
 Posted - 31 May 2009 : 7:11:58 PM
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Agree with your comments Lindylou.....two wrongs never make a right and no, we dont only want to save Arabs from the abbatoirs (every foal born deserves a good quality of life) We can never save all the unfortunates
However, what we can do, is NOT continue to overbreed our glorious Arabians, flooding an already overburdened Market. At least we, as responsible Breeders, are doing our `bit` to ensure we are not breeding foals for the sake of breeding!!!
Surely, if every Breeder in the Country made a stand, by halving their annual coverings.....then foals that are born, stand a better chance of a long life with caring owners.
Know it will never happen.......but we can always hope
Babs 
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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DenmoorStud
Gold Member
739 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2009 : 7:28:11 PM
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| It seems there is a strong consensus of opinion that Stallion and Mare Grading is the key. if our society is not listening then it falls to the breeders to do something to bring about the change we all agree is necessary. |
   
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2009 : 7:45:07 PM
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Would never stand a stallion that was not licenced or did not have a proven performance bloodline. Agree totally that all potential breeding stock (Mares included) should be vetted and approved, before being allowed and accepted for entry in Breed Society Stud Books.
If this rule was implemented.....it would be the way to go forward and would certainly curtail the overbreeding of unwanted foals. Come on AHS, get breeding of Pure/Anglo and Part Bred Arabs on a better track, to ensure only the cream of the Breed is available for future generations
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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DenmoorStud
Gold Member
739 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2009 : 8:39:32 PM
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| Totally agree with you Babs, perhaps we need to lobby the AHS on this, a letter signed by the breeders might start to open channels for a discussion on this subject. |
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2009 : 9:07:00 PM
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I don't know if it is the same stallion owner but there is one who allows the foal to be born before asking for the stud fee.........sort of interest free stud fee.
Doing this just IMO devalues that stallions stock. It allows those that probably could not afford a stud fee to breed.
Not wanting to sound horrid but if you can't afford the stud fee how can you afford to care for the baby and all that goes with bringing up a youngster?
I can see this topic being locked fairly soon. |
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bridie
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2395 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2009 : 9:17:33 PM
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Sue B.....one and the same. Cant see why this topic would/should be locked, no names mentioned. Unless the owner in question has the "influence" they used to have here.
We shall see I suppose. |
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s.jade
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2401 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2009 : 9:30:46 PM
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I bred one filly this year - she is for keeps.
Can't see any sense in offering free breedings IF YOU LIKE THE FOAL?!?Understandably, dropping the fee a bit for a Top Class mare - when our old event stallion stood publicly (15 years back) my mother offered concessions to proven competition mares.
We saw such sad sights in January at York Sales - a 3year old filly, all bones, with a 3 week old foal at foot - a yearling in the same pen, snotty and sad - the dealer wanted £100 for the mare & foal and £80 for the yearling - I had to walk away
How does he even break even on that, surely people like this would be better NOT breeding these poor ponies, and saving the money it costs a year to keep them, rather than scraping in measly amounts and uncertain futures? |
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pat ww
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3459 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2009 : 09:39:07 AM
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Beeston is full of such ponies, I still think the problem lies with the 'others' who breed any old cr*p, not GENERALLY with real breeders who value performance and bloodlines, it is the 'others' that have flooded the market so reducing the number of buyers for carefully thought out stock.
The 'others' can sell at any price just to cut down their costs of keeping the cr*p they have bred. It no way reflects the economic cost of producing that foal to whatever age it is sold. |
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pat ww
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3459 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2009 : 09:43:52 AM
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| I have also never taken a stud fee until a foal is on the ground, and been VERY cheap. The difference is, it has been one breeding every few years, to responsible adults who have had an ageing ridden mare that they wanted a 'special' replacement for. By using a pure bred RIDDEN Arab stallion, they at least were not going to perpetuate the rubbish that they could have used. The oldest is now 14 and with his breeder. |
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DenmoorStud
Gold Member
739 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2009 : 5:24:23 PM
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| I am considering putting the following declaration on my website. Operating under the responsible breeders code, its seems there are a no. of us in agreement on this and those who really care for horses may well take this on board when looking for a performance Arab, AA or PB. your comments may be interesting. IMO it really is time to pro active. |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
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pat ww
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3459 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2009 : 10:00:12 PM
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and in fact true and registered Exmoor ponies are on a list of endangered breeds due to very low numbers, as are the suffolk punch draft horse.
the rubbish mares out there could have productive lives as recipient mares for the donor embryos of our rare and worth preserving breeds. |
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DenmoorStud
Gold Member
739 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2009 : 10:08:49 PM
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We really have to start some where,and if the responsible fall in line, then others may follow their example, after all the proof of the pudding is in the competing, and the aspiration to be a successful and acclaimed breeder.
We also have to appeal to those wishing to buy quality, which I might add does not come cheap,as we are well aware.
I would also like to point out that those breeders under cutting are doing themselves and their fellow breeders a great disservice.
Minhe, I am a little uncertain as to the point you are making in your last paragraph, perhaps you could enlighten me |
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pat ww
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3459 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2009 : 10:54:42 AM
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Moorland ponies today are not the true natives that used to roam, far too much alien blood eg shetland have been turned out indiscriminately to mate with whatever is there.
historically the markets have always supplied the european meat trade, the indigenous natives are now carefully and pedigree bred by breeders such as ourselves who aim to keep the type, characteristics and purity of the true natives
hope this is what you meant keren and sorry for hi jacking the answer. |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2009 : 3:16:16 PM
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| Originally posted by pat ww
Moorland ponies today are not the true natives that used to roam, far too much alien blood eg shetland have been turned out indiscriminately to mate with whatever is there.
historically the markets have always supplied the european meat trade, the indigenous natives are now carefully and pedigree bred by breeders such as ourselves who aim to keep the type, characteristics and purity of the true natives
hope this is what you meant keren and sorry for hi jacking the answer.
Hi Pat, that is exactly what I meant!
Most of the oversupply does NOT come from those who breed purebreds or quality partbreds: it is those who breed cheaply (ie in semi-feral herds such as on Dartmoor and on the Irish bogs) with no regulation of - or regard for - the quality of the animals. They are not interested in producing a sound riding animal, much less in competing - they are not part of the equestrian world but part of the meat market, except they raise ponies instead of sheep or cattle.
The likelihood of getting these type of owner/breeders to change is infinitesimal - it has been tried on Dartmoor for decades with little or no effect. They know little and care less what responsible breeders do: equines to them are a no-cost, high-margin meat product, so what is the point of registration, quality control, etc etc? After all, a poorly conformed, unregistered pony tastes exactly the same as a quality one - and costs FAR less to produce.
Henry VIII tried to end the breeding of feral equines - look how far he didn't get. There is not a cat in hell's chance you can *persuade* the overproducers to become 'responsible' - and little chance that legistlation would achieve the end result, except at the expense of massive infringements of the privacy of those horse owners who ARE responsible.
And even if it were possible to enact and enforce such legislation, the numbers of equines 'culled out' would be horrific - F&M wouldn't be in it. There is no way the public would stand for it - there would be animal rights types rioting outside every equine slaughterhouse and questions in parliament.
Keren |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2009 : 4:01:54 PM
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But Keren, there are too many Pure Arabs being Bred!!!....otherwise why are studs culling and sending perfectly healthy foals to slaughter just so they can accommodate the following Season`s foal crop???
SUCH ACTION IS IRRESPONSIBLE and more than likely, it is the large Studs/Farms who are guilty of this deplorable crime!! As you say, the meat tastes the same whether from a common feral bred pony or a highly bred pedigree. So Arabians and indeed Thoroughbreds are not exempt from the meat man!!!
Small dedicated and responsible breeders are leading the way.....it is about time the Horse Farms followed and showed the same consideration.....and cut back on breeding programmes. Only then, will annual "culls" of strong healthy foals, be minimised!!!
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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Edited by - BabsR on 02 Jun 2009 4:04:33 PM |
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DenmoorStud
Gold Member
739 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2009 : 5:53:51 PM
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Minhe, I understand What you are saying, but should we not put our own house in order first.
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