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angelarab
Platinum Member
 Wales
2876 Posts |
 Posted - 28 May 2009 : 10:03:25 PM
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This is the inch high title of a poster someone has put up on the ad board at work.. 
Stunning looking cob stallion lots of feather etc and the fashionable colour
£150 including free mare keep two weeks
I asked my boss if she had seen it, and how she feels about it, i think it should be removed.
Animal world has gone crazy we had two meer cats in the this week on blooming leads, (facinating to see them)owners paid £650 each!!!!!
Not good!
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 "Until one has loved an animal, part of their soul remains unawakened."
www.northwalesarab.co.uk |
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Mrs Vlacq
Platinum Member
Wales
3776 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 10:06:05 PM
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| MADNESS!!!! |
    
- V Khazad - V Calacirya & V Sulime - Quarida(L) - V Boogie Knights - V Hamra Tofiq |
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vjc
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4952 Posts |
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bridie
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2395 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 10:37:32 PM
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Yes and then you have the arab stallion owner who is offering free returns to anyone that has used her stallion this year....if they LIKE the foal!!!
Laughable, no....just sad as wonder where they will end up.
Perhaps this time next year we will be talking about how we are going to save these poor FREE horses from markets or cruelty. |
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Timbercroft
Gold Member
Wales
936 Posts |
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Pasha
Platinum Member
England
3622 Posts |
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pat ww
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3459 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2009 : 09:36:24 AM
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Sadly its not that new. For a long time, some people - I wont dignify them with the title breeder - have offered very cheap coverings to stallions of completely unknown ancestry and the unknowing fall for the patter.
I've heard of one coloured cob stallion - unknown ancestry - who was running out with about 25 mares, as he was 'very cheap'.
The people who do this have convinced mare owners who have a natural desire to have a baby from their treasured pet, that it is a financially viable exercise. "Your foal will be worth.....'.
The only winner is the stallion owner, gets the keep fees, and by doing a bulk job makes more money than responsible breeders of pedigree horses and ponies who limit coverings to achieve the best possible outcome in the resulting progeny.
Theres no easy answer as any old deformed mongrel can be used for breeding without penalty since scrapping the horse breeding regulations that required a colt age two and above to hold a MINISTRY licence obtained after a STRICT veterinary examination. There used to be legal consequences for keeping a colt / stallion who did not have a licence.
Even pedigree breeders are irresponsible. At one welsh pony sale there were 6 chestnut filly foals being sold by the same breeder by one stallion - a few years BEFORE the credit crunch. In the event they were not forward as the breeder was slow in getting their passports.
WHY breed to sell at least 6 foals for an average of less than #200.
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Vygoda
Platinum Member
United Arab Emirates
1627 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2009 : 09:53:35 AM
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Yes, totally irresponsible but by doing this in the present state of the market, it is also a dis-service to the Arabian horse, and actually insulting to people’s intelligence to think they will grab this offer.
Some thoughts:
Does this stallion owner hope to swamp the market with the foals by the stallion and leave everyone else to pick up the rejects sold in markets, etc?
Will this owner buy in rejected foals?
Is the owner hoping that by so many foals being born by the stallion, there will be one that will really ‘hit’ big time?
Does the owner not have enough confidence in the stallion that he can sire well?
Very bizarre thinking in my opinion . But what do I know  .
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2009 : 09:58:40 AM
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I don't post on here very often now, but this thread has made me do so.
It costs a stallion owner, a responsible stallion owner nearly £600 to do all the yearly swabs needed pre breeding season from the stallion.
To then pay for continued advertising which owners of mares like to see, plus the show entries to promote your stock and stallion makes the whole issue of standing a stallion at stud very very expensive.
Some stallion owners like to wait till their chap has proved himself under saddle, some like to start covering early, some like to get in-hand wins for the stallion under the belt first. Whatever way that stallion owner wishes to promote that stallion it is all extremely expensive.
All of the above has to be taken into account when setting a stud fee. Whoever gives the coverings away if you happen to like the foal this year should remember the rest of us trying to do the proper thing here.
They should also take back the foals that are no longer wanted by the many inexperienced owner/breeders who will fall for a cheapo covering.
A cheap covering will get the mares no doubt, but possibly at the cost of a not so discerning owner.
We now actually vet the owners more so than the mare they send
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2009 : 10:06:44 AM
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Poor quality hairy coloured cobs have been a licence to print money for the last few years - obviously the 'foal farmers' who produce them think they are recession proof.
Producing 'choppers' for the meatmarket to supplement your income when you're a small Irish farmer is one thing - foisting these creatures as objects of desire on the riding public is another.
Personally, I can't see why ANYONE would want an unhandled high-maintenance conformational nightmare with questionable background and temperament when for a quarter of the price they could have a trained, purebred Arab that would be a friend for life. Still, I suppose the above do perform a function in that they give those who see horses as nothing more than a glorified mountain-bike something to own, instead of making life hell for an Arab...
Keren |
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Tracey@ET
Gold Member
England
539 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2009 : 7:29:50 PM
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Its absolute madness to be offering free coverings in any economic circumstance let alone a recession...What is this person hoping to prove? after all its all about the quality of the foals produced not the quantity that proves stallions as a sire!
This person is obviously selfish and incredibly irresponsible, strong words but i feel very strongly about over-breeding just for the sake of it!
Tracey Austin
El Tahira Arabians
(responsible stallion owner) |
  
www.el-tahira.co.uk |
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kate b
Gold Member
Wales
1418 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2009 : 8:22:41 PM
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There is a field behind where we keep our horses that has 2 non-descript chestnut mares in there. Recently a hairy, coloured, butt ugly stallion has appeared in there with them for obvious reasons. Now my father doesnt know an awful lot about horses, but asked the question "why on earth would anyone breed horses at the moment? Who is going to buy them? Fair enough if someone has pure breds (of whatever breed) and carefully considers what they are doing". Even he could see that resulting offspring from this stallion and these mares will probably be heading for Llanybydder or similar, and to what fate?
We should be very hesitant about breeding at the moment. There is no guarantee of the saleability (SP!) of the resulting offspring, and unless you are prepared (and financially able) to give the foal a home for life, you should perhaps give it a miss at the moment!!
Therefore encouraging people to breed at the moment by cutting stud fees is extemely irresponsible. I understand that stallion owners put a lot of time, effort and money into promoting their stallions, and perhaps want to see some return - or are curious to see what they produce, but in my opinion keeping your stud fee high, you are more likely to attract a higher quality of mare (and perhaps mare owner!!!  )
Kate |
      
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natntaz
Platinum Member
England
2919 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2009 : 8:55:57 PM
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I think anyone breeding at the moment should only
do so if they are looking to keep the foal as i have
also been amazed at how many un-wanted horses there
are out there that are being neglected and sadly
sold to all sorts of terrible people who are trying
to make a fast buck out of them.
We only have to look at how many are being advertised
on free sites and so on. Old and young horses alike.
I do think that some of the larger studs dont take quite
as much flak as they should, they breed lots of foals
and quite often you only get to see the better one's.
What happens to the not to good  In the current climate
we are all seeing that the homes are just not out there.
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Natalie Pix. Essex. Tariq ibn Radfan and Taroub |
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taranstorm
Gold Member
Wales
952 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2009 : 9:37:05 PM
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I know a Arab breeder who breed lot of purebred around 8-12 foals a year,think that is very selfish as should think of their future instead of make plenty of money!as i can not stand see any arabs being neglect or end up at sales! i now go hide before i get shoot! |
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Jingo
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3632 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2009 : 1:52:05 PM
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How desperate for a stallion owner to start offering free breedings to their horse and especially in these trying times. Do these stallion owners, own mares if so by offering free breedings doesn’t this de-value the stock they breed themselves. Or are they just passing the buck for the responsibility of the foals to the mare owner? I find it totally irresponsible especially as there are so many Arabian horses going thru markets.
I hope I am classed as a responsible breeder – yep I’m one who has “shouted loud and clear” that horses have to prove themselves – hey my boy, I think, has done that over the last four years BUT we decided to close his book for this year, due to the financial situation. We have honoured the breedings that were booked early. I would NEVER want to see any of his children thru a market and hope and pray that those who eventually own one would feel the same.
As responsible breeders we have a “duty” to those animals we breed, they should not be a whim and we have to make sure we are there to support them if they need our help.
I only hope these stallion owners who are doing this dis-service to the Arab breed will be able to do the same – but perhaps they don’t give a damn as long as their horse is seen to get the mares!!! Oh well, on their head be it!!!
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Jude
www.auchmillanarabians.org.uk
      
photos:Anthony Reynolds,Sweet,Deano,Real Time Imaging |
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DenmoorStud
Gold Member
739 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2009 : 2:38:30 PM
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Well said Jude as responsible breeder,I agree with all you have written.
Denise |
   
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2009 : 3:29:15 PM
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Echo those comments Also responsible Breeder here. We are fussy what mares we take i.e. will also turn away Mares that are in poor condition when they arrive......if Owner cannot look after a mare...what chance does a foal have!!
We have three top class proven brood mares....and whilst it is a shame not to cover them, we have only bred one foal for the last couple of years and will continue to do so, whilst the current financial markets, remain at a low ebb.
We would be absolutely gutted to think that a Sunray Bred Anglo ended up in the same plight as Shulay Montana has.......just a bag of bones at an auction. Thank God she was bought by a private buyer 
Reduced Stud Fees...just to attract Mares, so the Owner can boast the number of Mares the stallion has covered, is, IMO irresponsible, as over production will lead to more Pure Arabs, glorious though they may be, probably ending up at Markets, with a good percentage on a one way ticket to the abattoir
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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Edited by - BabsR on 31 May 2009 3:32:56 PM |
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Jingo
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3632 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2009 : 3:42:04 PM
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Babs,
I am in the same situation as yourself, I have some wonderful broodmares here, producing lovely foals BUT we have decided in the current market we will not be covering any mares for ourselves this year.
We have three lovely foals this year and the thought of "having" to sell to make room for another batch is not the way forward for us. We will make sure they have a home here until the right owner comes along |
Jude
www.auchmillanarabians.org.uk
photos:Anthony Reynolds,Sweet,Deano,Real Time Imaging |
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Pashon2001
Platinum Member
3575 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2009 : 3:45:55 PM
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I'm going to get shot now  . But credit crunch or no credit crunch people will continue to breed dozens of horses every year. Some horses will always end up at markets or in poor condition, no matter how hard we try to find them that 'perfect' home, times change, things change and horses get sold on.
There will always be people that keep two bit stallions and promote them for tuppence a covering to get foals. Whatever we say or do............this will NEVER change!
If we (as in responsible breeders) all stopped breeding today, there will still be a whole bunch of nitwits filling up the gap in the market with foals/horses who's 'great great grand daddy won something somewhere at a local show in outer mongolia'.
I'm not saying its right, but there is very little we can do to change it I'm afraid.
Personally a leap in the right direction would be to have compulsory (and I mean all horses not just registered ones) vetting/licencing of stallions AND mares. How many times have I seen badly conformed mares bred to a decent stallion! It may cut a few unwanteds down but would be so hard to impliment.
And what about the hundreds of wild native ponies, interbreeding willy nilly that go for slaughter every year? Or do we just save the arabs?!?
Right I'm off now to beat and starve my horses lol  |
     
www.jarvastud.com http://hocon.webs.com/ |
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avanti
Platinum Member
England
2222 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2009 : 3:46:40 PM
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I don't understand the thinking behind the free breeding offer,I have 2 foals for this year and am covering for next year only those that have good homes offered from people I know well, my stallion and mares are old and this years breedings will be to keep, we have to be responsible,
Mandy
Avanti Arabians
edited to add its been several years since my last foal |
Edited by - avanti on 31 May 2009 3:48:03 PM |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2009 : 4:03:19 PM
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Me too , I have bred only one mare last year ,( and three outside mares who want to keep their foals. this year I will do the same.only one mare of my own although I have exellent empty mares.
if we all stuck to one or two max we may be able to get things back to normal.
Pashon, I get what you are saying but two wrongs will never make a right. saying its going to happen anyway so I may just as well cover as many mares as the gypsy up the road , is not going to help the situation. good quality or not. the problem is here and its not going to go away if we dont act ! |
   
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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Vera
Membership Moderator
United Kingdom
8652 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2009 : 4:24:48 PM
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Although I 100% agree with Pashon, indiscriminate breeding is disgusting all the same. I have long since preached that breeding stock should be graded and licensed.
This is another case of when naming and shaming is appropriate but not allowed. |
    
Hampshire |
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bridie
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2395 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2009 : 5:24:56 PM
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Re Naming & Shaming.....would love to!!!!
Jude, Pashon, Mandy, Babs R, Lynda......just from your posts we all know you are responsible breeders.
Jude....in the wrong hands how much could Tom have been exploited? but then in different hands would he of achieved what he has or just been a baby machine performing for the wooden mare/collection guy? what a fabulous and lucky stallion to have you as his guardian.
Unfortunately the stallion being offerd free "if you like the foal" is not so lucky.......regardless of the naming & shaming rules here, the truth will out one day, but if only others knew the truth now!!
Bonkers |
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Pashon2001
Platinum Member
3575 Posts |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
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Jingo
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3632 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2009 : 7:11:50 PM
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Vera/Pashon,
I remember standing up at an AHS AGM and asking WHY we didn't have stallion/mare grading - I dont mean the premium scheme or Nasta etc - well I was SHOT down quite strongly by the then powers that be - saying it was not allowed under WAHO rules. Then why does Europe have stallion grading?
All stallions used to have ministry licences methinks - not just the entering as breeding stock that now exists. Maybe its time to put our house in order and have a more rigorous test for both mares and stallions and not only by Arab judges/vets but perhaps people from other breed panels. Afterall what are we afraid of.
Sadly this would not deter the free breeding syndrome.
I mean at the moment all we need to do with mares is fill a form in, send off the money, and bingo entered as breeding stock - no inspection, nothing.
Bridie, I hate to think how Tom would have been exploited but luckily he is "our" horse in a million and dearly loved and cherished and won't be going anywhere
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Jude
www.auchmillanarabians.org.uk
photos:Anthony Reynolds,Sweet,Deano,Real Time Imaging |
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