| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
CINDERS
Gold Member
England
750 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 11:37:44 AM
|
Why can't the AHS pay their office staff - they do but this scheme simply does not generate income enought to pay a dedictated staff member hence the suggestion of a volunteer (as are all the council members)
Maybe I am naive but I do know my own horses strengths and weakness and breeding mainly russians means that many of the horses in the background of sires I would consider would probably qualify as premium horses on their race records alone. My spanish are so lazy that if I wanted to produce a performance horse I would not even consider trying with one of them, that said tehy have the most amazing temperaments and are worth having for that alone. I think the point I am making is that any horse given the chance should (not necessarily would) be able to perform, there should not be a divide between a show or performance arab. I do not breed for performance but as I said I breed with the intention that those who do not make the criteria for showing are capable of going on to compete in other spheres in the right hands (those with the skill and the wherewithall to train them). It would be intersting to see how many horses would qualify for premium status if their owners were to provide the information and also to try to guage why owners do not support the scheme
Yvonne
|
Report to Moderator  |
|
|
alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
|
|
BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 11:58:36 AM
|
Cinders..........why cant the AHS pay their staff or their Council Members, cant finance the Premium Scheme, cant finance a Performance Show,cant afford but one issue of , cant pay prize money at our National show, cant put on Breed classes for a section of their Members, and on and on and on!!! Need I say more?? Am sick to the teeth, of all this apathy. What on earth is happening to all the Membership fees???
Yes costs have gone up, Showground Hire, equipment etc etc, Judges expenses, printing costs....BUT SO HAVE Membership Fees, Entry Fees, Registration Fees, Advertising in AHS Mags Fees, Breeding Stock Fees...need I go on?? Why is it so impossible to balance the books?????
All these services and MORE, the AHS is now unable or unwilling to provide for it`s Members, which in bygone years,such services never appeared to break the bank!!!
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
        |
Edited by - BabsR on 19 Mar 2009 2:02:01 PM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
templars
Platinum Member
England
1852 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 12:54:36 PM
|
ie those not good enough to show can have a go at performance
ie what this thread is about - that Premium and performance horses = second class citizens
|
   www.eviepeel.com    |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 12:56:20 PM
|
Cinders, you ask WHY members do not support the Premium Scheme....have you not looked at the Premium Scheme Website.......outdated by at least three years!!
What is the point in Members advising, sending results, offering pics...only to note that they are not being posted to the website, nor is the Premium scheme mentioned in the AHS Mags. How do the AHS require Members to finance the Premium Scheme?? by `paying` to have Premium Scheme news and info printed on the Website........Help us on this one!!!
Answer....as Templars suggested, initiate an open Premium Scheme Forum...Members can post all info, pics whatever, which will help inform the reader/enquirer whilst self promoting the Premium Scheme...and keeping the site up to date. The eventual benefit to the Society hopefully will then reflect in an increase in Premium Stallion/Mares Performance Interest and foal registrations, with the added revenue that entails.
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianLines.co.uk |
|
Edited by - BabsR on 19 Mar 2009 4:40:35 PM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 1:12:10 PM
|
Well, here we go again Templars....It seems some Members view the Premium Scheme being part of the AHS, as a `set aside` site, for Owners/Breeders of failed Show Horses, who can then find use for their showing `rejects`by turning to performance!!!
to give them a purpose in the equine world!!
More head banging on the way 
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
|
Edited by - BabsR on 19 Mar 2009 1:13:32 PM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
templars
Platinum Member
England
1852 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 1:30:37 PM
|
If you look at other breed societies - the Premium scheme (or whatever choice of name they choose, some choose "graded") - the Scheme - is at the core of the society. The hub around which everything else is based.
Other breed societies accommodate showing (in hand and ridden), performance (in its widest sense) and breeding.
Entry to the Premium scheme attracts great kudos and it would appear that people strive to gain entry. There will always be those who choose not to, but the whole mind set of other breed societies is to gain access to the Premium scheme.
The AHS does not have that mindset and as we have seen on here, not only do general members struggle with the concept of Premium animals but they cannot embrace the fact that showing is not the be all and end all of the Arab horse.
Several reasons are given for not being able to accept the Premium scheme and most of these seem to arise from a misunderstanding of what the Premium is. Yes there are criteria for gaining entry and yes, of course, those criteria should push the boundaries. But not every horse is capable of gaining entry just like every horse is not capable of winning at Paris or Aachen. The reasons given repeatedly on here are "my horses could gain entry if I wanted them to, but I don't want to do that so I'm not going to try and your horse is no better than mine just because it has gained entry"
I believe, that the majority of us who have gained Premium status compete against non Arab breeds on a very regular basis (and I mean compete in all senses - showing and performance) and as a result, we know exactly what Premium means to the general horse population. We have had to meet criteria to gain entry - that was our choice to put our horses forward for assessment and selection, just like it is your choice not to put your horse forward.
But, having put ourseleves forward, we still have to meet the criteria and then we can, with pride, go out and compare ourselves with other breeds on a level playing field. We know they have had to meet very similar criteria to us. We are judged for conformation, temperament and performance (and breeding record).
The Premium scheme provides the Arab with a platform for direct comparison. Our horses are viewed alongside other breeds as adding value to a breeding programme based on the award of a Premium or on the ability to consistently produce offspring that can perform.
This constant insistence that the Premium scheme adds no value indicates that those saying it are quite happy to remain in the rarified atmosphere of the Arab Horse world and they are not living the purpose of the Arab Horse Society - to improve Light Horse Breeding by the addition of Arabian blood.
Trust me, performance breeders are not interested in a glamorous horse - good looks are a bonus but the performance record is paramount. That's where we, as Arab breeders, are at an advantage. We can breed horses that can perform AND are good looking.
Stop seeing the Premium scheme as a "them and us" - see it as what it is designed to be - a shop window so that the rest of the horse world can look in and see just how wonderful our breed is.
If you don't want the Premium scheme, then maybe we should close the shop because the only customers soon will be the shop assistants.
At the moment, the AHS seems hell bent on boarding up the windows!!
Rant over! |
www.eviepeel.com |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Hazel Cornes
Silver Member
United Kingdom
288 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 1:37:36 PM
|
Have deleted my post as it seemed repetitive.
Hazel |
Edited by - Hazel Cornes on 19 Mar 2009 1:47:09 PM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
templars
Platinum Member
England
1852 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 2:17:20 PM
|
Hangs head in shame for being second class citizen with second class horses - forget the National Championships, the WAHO award, the Premium etc etc etc etc etc etc etc - I have a mare who hates the show ring so I'm just off out hang a bell round her neck so that people know she's a social outcast!!!!!
Just had a thought though - if all those of us in the Premium scheme are there because we're not good enough to show, and as has been said by all the mainstream members on here - the AHS is all about pretty show horses - maybe we should get reduced membership for being such low lives!!!!!!!
I know - instead of Premium Scheme we could be known as Pond Life, or Bottom Feeders or Lepers or Scum of the Earth for daring to breathe and believe our horses are important.
(sorry for going off one one, but every time we take a step forward and think we're getting there, we are hit in the face full force by sheer bloody mindedness and out and out ignorance)
Takes deep breath, counts to ten and chants mantra - we can bring about change, we can educate, we can share pride, we can find common ground (please?????) |
www.eviepeel.com |
Edited by - templars on 19 Mar 2009 2:21:10 PM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
nn
Gold Member
England
659 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 7:55:42 PM
|
Templar's i just nearly fell of my chair laughing!
I never thought of my two premium stallions as bottom feeders and my premium mare as a leper.But perhaps they are!
My premium yearling filly might have the look of pond life at the moment, but I'm sure when her winter woollies fall out she will turn into a koi carp!
Cinders: If as a breed society you set up a scheme which to the outside non Arab world gives you a bit of kudos, should you not back that scheme with all your might in order that the Arab is taken seriously by others in the non Arab world?As the owners of premium stock we are out there shouting about it!
As Templar's said the other breed societies look on there premium stallions and mares with pride so why aren't the AHS?
As premium stock we have all worked hard ,be it in the show ring or the performance field to gain the level required to gain our premium.
Has this all been for nothing?
You can show and perform! Our lad does it!Plenty of Geminis stock have gone from the show ring to the performance side. It isn't the DARK SIDE.
Plenty of Arabs go out and do another job perhaps we just don't hear about them as a lot are the property of non Arab horse society members.But they are out there.
We should all stick together for the premium scheme to move forward and stop the us and them as it doesn't exist!
Nicky
www.romarnicstud.co.uk |
       |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Jude
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
81 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 10:59:08 PM
|
"Just as a matter of interest - who was your Premium mare?? I guess hardly anyone on here will know who she is and isn't that a shame? "
Our Premium mare was Rasmiga (Gaymet/Radsilla), full sister to Ramilla and Rameed, and was produced from home and ridden by my daughter, both in the show ring and at PC competitions until her retirement, when she joined the broodies and produced lovely babies including Ravor. Radsilla produced many good ridden horses and Gaymet himself took part in all ridden activities. I would certainly hope that some people on here will remember her. Sadly she was pts a few years ago at the age of 23. |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Scarlet Arabian
Silver Member
England
339 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 07:18:56 AM
|
surely in hand and ridden shows should be seen as windows for future performance animals!!!
not the be all and end all.
performance animals should be seen as the ultimate finished product.
this is some thing many other societies encourage in there grading.
we aim to breed (as i am sure many other breeders do)for a animal that can go on to do any job asked of it, not just to look pretty.
Abby
. |
    
stacatto wind...... kharibe........salana A/A........julien p/b........scarlet...
whitsbury/new forest
www.scarletarabianbridles.co.uk |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 07:30:26 AM
|
Jude.....there must be very many Premium mares out there, both Arab Anglo and Part Bred Arab. We ourselves have three Premium Mares all whom have `proved` themselves and through their successful progeny at Major Events throughout the Country. There are also quite a number of Mares, sired by our Premium stallion, who themselves, through their own and their offsprings performances, fully meet the Premium Scheme Criteria, who just have not `bothered` to apply......shame, but they feel what is the point!!
In all the history of the Premium Scheme, there has never been and listing or acknowledgement of the Premium Mares, so no one KNOWS they even exist.........this needs addressing!!!!!! Likewise, the same can be said for Premium bred offspring. ALL Sunray offspring are Premium bred, either through their Sire or through their Dam and quite a good number of those are DOUBLE premium bred but is there
any information on the Premium Scheme Web Site available by way of a listing??.....which should be made available to the public on line...NO!!! This needs addressing.....Mares are as important as the Stallions!!!
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
|
|
Edited by - BabsR on 20 Mar 2009 07:34:26 AM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 08:09:22 AM
|
EXACTLY Abby........our proven stud policy!!! Good Looks, excellent conformation, good limbs and action, amiable temperament.....add to that a proven performance bloodline, the result = success!!!
Showing classes ARE the shop window of the breed for all to view and are well documented and promoted......However, there is an inbalance when AHS comes to "documenting and promoting" the END PRODUCT.....surely, the ultimate aim of most Breeders, the Arab/Anglo/PBA competition horse!!! Hence the AHS Premium Scheme was introduced, with the Performance Horse in Mind!!!
However, the "documenting and promoting" of the END PRODUCT, has sadly been neglected by the AHS......this needs addressing!!
There have been a good number of suggestions on the subject of how we address this failure to provide!! It is clear, we are not going to get any help from the AHS, again pleading poverty!!
Way out in front, and by far the best suggestion is Templars idea,to initiate a Premium Scheme Website Open Forum. This would give maximum input from Members and minimum input from the AHS....and offer huge range of information to the general equine public, thereby the Premium Scheme Forum would be self promoting!! One only has to look to A/L forum, to appreciate how successful such an initiative would benefit the Premium Scheme. Methinks the site would be inundated with `hits` from interested parties.
Food for thought, methinks 
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
|
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
templars
Platinum Member
England
1852 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 08:11:41 AM
|
| Jude - exactly as Babs has said - your wonderful mare was known about and loved by you and people locally but she had been selected as an Ambassador of the breed and we should all have known about her name and her achievements. It wouldn't change what you did with her or what how you loved her, but it may have helped spread the word that Arabians are a valuable and valued breed. That's what the shame is - that this super lady was hidden to the wider world. |
www.eviepeel.com |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 08:27:03 AM
|
Templars
You have given me an idea which I will expand on on another thread
.
Ridden Pure-Bred Performance
|
    
blue moon |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Micky
Silver Member
308 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 10:20:28 AM
|
I'm sure that lots of people looking for an Arab, Anglo or part bred stallion have heard of AL.
What about asking Admin if they could/would do something for the Premium Scheme in the way of advertising stallions etc. I'm sure people wouldnt mind paying for their adverts, after all the site goes world wide! |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 10:53:53 AM
|
Micky......we have ALWAYS paid and WILL always be prepared to pay. We HAVE supplied results, successess and information, pics etc., when requested to do so
only to be disappointed that same usually receive none or little response and never get posted on the Premium Scheme Website.........to inform the wider community of their contribution.
In it`s present form, the Premium Scheme Website is of little use to ANYONE and unless it is doing the job it was set up for............it might just as well be scrapped!!!
Alistair.......I wait with interest.......but surely it should be Ridden Pure, Anglo and Part Bred Performance Arabians??? Practice what you preach Alistair as many of your posts keep harping on about there being a them and us division and that we should all pull together for one cause........Promoting Arabian Bloodlines!!
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
|
Edited by - BabsR on 20 Mar 2009 11:02:24 AM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
CINDERS
Gold Member
England
750 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 11:32:18 AM
|
Sorry but still feel that there should be no difference between a performance or show arab other than the owners choice whether to perform or not. As I have said I do not have the will or the wherewithall to produce a performance arab but applaud those who do.
For me and that old naivity is showing itself again breeding animals for one attribute is the road to the ruination of the breed. You have only to look at some of the French racing arabs to see what this can achieve, a horse that can run fast but bears little resemblance to an arab
It also seems that the Scheme has to be promoted not only to the outside world but within the arab fraternity and that those with the passion need to push this forward by updating the website and submitting articles etc for publishcation in the yearbook.
I believe this thread proves that the scheme is underulitised by most arab owners and if more people were to promote their horses achievements than greater revenue would be generated allowing greater promotion of the scheme at no cost to the society.
Divisive it may seem but what about a seperate "booklet" in the same glossy format as the yearbook that could be sent with the year book and maybe to other interested breed societies. Like the yearbook this would need to be self supporting so it would be up to those with an interest to advertise as breeders so in the year book
Yvonne |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Micky
Silver Member
308 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 11:47:58 AM
|
Babs
What I meant was why not ask AL admin to see what they could do about advertising the premium stock. Im sure admin would post results - they do all the showing results! |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 11:57:13 AM
|
Babbsr
Have you read the other thread?
Even better to have AA and PB competing at the same venue as Pure-breds
An Arab blood event! |
blue moon |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
|
|
Topic |
|
Topic Locked 
