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t_linington
Gold Member
 United Kingdom
815 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Nov 2003 : 4:14:42 PM
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After advice please.....
Brought a section b pony for son, He has been on and of lame (short in right shoulder) since i got him. The woman i brought him from, was not very honest in most things...she said she had him for a few years, papers show she brought him last october! She said he was good to clip, shoe etc....i went to trim his beard the other day and he went balistic!! then today went to wash his feet off for farrier and he went mental and threw himself over backwards (and smashed his eye on the stable door!!) This is my 100% bombproof childs pony!!
I feel that if i did ask her about the lameness, i wouldn't get the truth.....what should i do next?
The vet will have to come and see him, but he clearly is not as they advertised him!!!
Help........
Tina
tina linington
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bridie
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2395 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2003 : 4:23:58 PM
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If he is not as advertised you should return him to them. He is obviously not a 100% safe childs pony. Such a shame that people cannot even be honest when selling something that will risk injuring a child. Sorry this has happened to you......people eh !!! |
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Tab
Silver Member
United Kingdom
255 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2003 : 7:04:45 PM
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How awful for both you and your son. I know how disappointing it is when you find you haven't bought what you thought you had - I've been caught out myself. I agree with Bridie, you ought to send him back. As for the lameness I think you're right, you'll never be sure if what she tells you is the truth. Doubtless she will pass the pony on again to another unsuspecting family. All you can do is spread the word about this person - name them and shame them. I'm fed up with people doing this. Some people I'm aquainted with recently bought a reasonbly expensive horse for thier daughter to do some eventing on. They were very confident about the horse so put down a non-returnable 50% deposit. The other 50% to be paid after the vetting in two weeks time. The horse failing the vetting due to a twisted pelvis. I felt so sorry for them initially. However, they went on to explain that they weren't sure if they'd send it back afterall. Instead they'd try to bring the price down as they "only want the horse to last a couple years" because after this she'd have out grown it anyway and as long as it wasn't constantly lame they didn't mind(!) These people treating horses like machines and behave like dodgy car salesman. This horse is going to be run in to the ground and sold on. I also recently saw another clearly unsound pony being tried by a young child and her non-horsey mother. The child was beaming from ear to ear as the pony limped along under her. It was awful. How can people do this. That poor family were being sent up for a whole lot of heart ache.
Good Luck
Michelle |
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Benjamin
Bronze Member
Netherlands
71 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2003 : 7:05:31 PM
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In Holland there is a six week period in which time a horse can be returned if it does not represent what it was sold as ie, 100%
I am told that little boys (assumption) are not as tough as girls if they get badly thrown.
Kids and parents are a similar worry when it comes to horses, my Dad rode briefly in his forties, took up skiing at sixty and we bought him his first horse at 65. The first one started off fine, learnt too many clever things from the arabians chucked me better than any other and had us holding the insurance papers each time my Dad went for a ride. In the end life is too short, the first was sold and replaced by a 16 year old great big strapping ex riding school neddy. The two are safe, I will again go out and watch and my Dad at 68 has started jumping.
Little boys should be racing around and playing cowboys and Indians, not watching there parents faces go white each time they get on there ponies.
Sod it and send it back!
Pip |
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susan hobson
Silver Member
United Kingdom
367 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2003 : 7:24:34 PM
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Hi,
I agree with everything the others have said, send it back. If she says that you carn't have your money back tell her you will sue her and really mean it. You need to know that the pony is safe with children and clearly it isn't. It's so easy to feel sorry for the pony but at the end of the day it's your child's life that's the most important thing. Chin up and go for it.
susan. |
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suyents
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1651 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2003 : 7:51:38 PM
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There are SO many stories like this out there...i also had a lame section A sold to me years ago for my daughter...the owner was really p******d off when i returned him. By law, i think you have the right to return any pony that can be proven to not be "as advertised", but watch your back, because some people then come back with the fact that it's YOUR abuse which has made him the way he is!!! Best of luck, i only wish that there were some way people could be named and shamed with integrity, but that would also be a potential minefield for mis-use.
suyen. |
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Wendy Allan
Silver Member
United Kingdom
310 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2003 : 9:41:08 PM
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I agree 110 per cent with Susan. Send it back. Sue them if you have to. Your son's life is more important.
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razgold
Platinum Member
USA
1576 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2003 : 10:56:42 PM
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I agree the pony should be sent back. But don't send it back until you have your money. A friend of mine bought a horse for his daughter. For the first couple of days the horse was quiet but over the next few days started misbehaving in such a way that his daughter was afraid of it. They think it may have been drugged to keep it quiet. It used to be an ex racehorse, they later found out. But the woman denied all knowledge of that. They ended up in court and the people had to pay back all the money plus £500 compensation.
Sue
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2003 : 09:51:00 AM
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You may win in court but a lot of people like that then claim they have no assets (put horses in spouses's, Mum's etc name) so you only end up worse off: Happened to someone I knew. Fortunately they were wealthy and could afford the loss but that's not the point. The horse in question had been drugged and turned out to be dangerous.
I always think you should take someone else with you as a witness and put in writing what was said about the horse. It is no good complaining that the horse is bad in traffic if you didn't ask what it was like and stress you wanted something bombproof. On the odd occsion that I sell anything I am always 100% honest as I want the people to be happy with the horse and, even more importantly, I want the horse to be happy with the new owner and not end up going from pillar to post.
I would definitely say sue in the small claims court (I have done it successfully) if there is any chance of getting your money back.
Regards
Barbara |
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Wyllow
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2885 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2003 : 10:14:21 AM
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Oh, this is a story I can relate to ~ sadly.
Your son's well being is far more important and most people would take a pony back rather than risk being talked about for attempted to sell one who they "misrepresented" as something other than what he was!
I know what it is like to have on my hands an animal who, having seemed to be quiet and well behaved when viewed and even initially at home, then presents all manner of fear related behavioural problems.
It's one thing when the animal is for you and you feeel you may have the knowledge and time to help it...but when it's for a child ~ and I have two little girls ~ I never want to see them hurt by a pony I aquired for them ~ no matter how sorry I felt for the animal.
The greater part of dealing with a pony is not the riding of it but the general handling and everyday contact and if that isn't pleasant and fun but instead fraught with hazard , it's enough to put children off horses for good. I have had to say "no" to more than one because of this issue...and after a while, I am beginning to feel I should apply the same criteria to myself too! After all, the family would be a little short of "hands on deck" were I to get flattened!
Please don't feel badly about it.
If the owner misrepresented the pony, then you have every right to return him.
Definitely think of your son....AND your OWN peace of mind.
I hope this situation is resolved for you as quickly as possible. I know what this is like and I'm sorry it's happened to you.
~Wyl
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razgold
Platinum Member
USA
1576 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2003 : 11:18:59 AM
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these people did try to say the horse belonged to the daughter and there were no assets but the judge wasn't fooled by that. He still told them they had to give back the money and pay costs.
Sue
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2003 : 1:50:40 PM
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Hi Tina,
Same senario different animal but it may help you to decide what you should do.
I bought a 9mth old boxer bitch to use for breeding in the future, in less than two weeks of having her, she had two fits, collapsed, cost £150 at the vets (three visits) and I found out she was not house-trained as advertised.
To cut a long story short, after the breeder refusing to help with the vet bills, I spoke to a legal expert who said that the dog MUST be returned within 30 days of buying her so I could use the 'sale of goods' act (the animal was not fit for the purpose for which it was sold) to take the lady to court. So I had to return the dog knowing that she would not give me my money back.
Needless to say I didn't get my money when I returned the dog, I really didn't want to return her but my vet said it would cost over £2k to investigate fully all her problems.
It took me nearly 2 years to get my money with all costs but I'm glad I did it. I found out after that I wasn't the only one who had taken this lady to court, the sickening part is she is still breeding!!
Angel
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bridie
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2395 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2003 : 1:58:04 PM
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Have to agree with the comment about girls being tougher than boys, my daughter as a smally would ride anything...the faster & madder the better for her, but my son was put off riding completely by a frisky little mare we had to try.....she was simply just too much for him & he was very scared of her, sadly the experience has stayed with him.  |
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t_linington
Gold Member
United Kingdom
815 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2003 : 2:05:56 PM
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Hi all, thanks for your advice.....but it has now got worse....i spoke to the lady today on the phone and it turns out that the pony was only backed at the end of last year!!!! I feel sick just thinking about it, i took Jack out hacking on the roads, have thrown other peoples kids on him, believing this pony was 100%......Thank god he is a good pony...but that is not the point, they lied about everything ...vet came out and we can't find anything, with out x-rays etc....
i asked for her to take the pony back and refund me in full and she told me to'F*** off'
So now what.......
I feel bad enough that people do this, but to a child????????
Feel very let down by humans, give me my arab any day.
tina linington |
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Jingo
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3632 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2003 : 2:28:34 PM
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Poor Tina - not a happy position to be in. Try Citizen's Advice - they really are good on the legal side of things and will point you in the right direction. Is this person a dealer - if so they are usually up to all the tricks of their trade!!! Good luck
Jude |
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Caroline
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
75 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2003 : 2:38:14 PM
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Hi Tina
I agree with Jude, definitely try Citizens Advice. I've had to seek legal advice for an employment matter recently and they were very helpful - just prepare yourself for a long wait. You could also try a solicitor - some will give an initial consultation for free (check ads in the Yellow pages), so you can find out if you have a case without parting with sixty or seventy quid.
Best of luck,
Caroline |
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Wyllow
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2885 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2003 : 3:44:05 PM
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That's a horrible development. It's a very nasty feeling when you find out that someone has got away with ridding themselves of a problem they were obviously desperate to be shot of...passed it onto a good willed and unsuspecting person....and then effectively deny you any right of complaint ~ which I feel you morally have.
Tina, how long have you actually had kept the pony? Sometimes this can make a difference but Citizen's Advice or a reputable Solicitor should be able to advise you.
I took on a horse a couple of years ago~in fact he was given to me, the owner was so desperate to find him a home~ who turned out to have a history of rearing when stressed. Well, of course, I never saw this during the trial period as he was ridden at and around "home" and stressful situations never presented themselves to us. He was also owned by a woman whose daughter had become bogged down with GCSE's and needed her time for study. The daughter refused to come to the yard, the woman knew little of horses, and this one was no exception...and the yard manager (of a yard which was so very badly run, I took the horse as he was on the verge of malnutrition, in my eyes) was very tight lipped about him. Well, as soon as he was mine, I gave notice at the yard and the manager said she'd be glad to see the back of him as he was terrifying when he reared ~ that was her parting shot!After the agreement had been reached!!
Well...I had hoped to fitten him, fatten him and find him a better home as soon as I could and had taken the horse as a favour to this woman I knew via school connections with my own kids.She had bought the horse on the reccommendation of the yard manager ( who I think had designs on him herself before he turned out to be a rearer)As you can imagine, it took me a year and a half to sort him out, bring him on, with the help of a trainer friend of mine...and eventually we found him a marvellous home.....but he was difficult to rehome and I had been put ~ or had landed myself in a position where there simply was no comeback with the owner at all.
I hope you can get this owner to accept the pony back. Pursue this end vigorously as even though it may cause you a headache ~ trying to rehome a difficult pony can be an even more trying task.
All the best.
I do sympathise with you.
~Wyl |
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Woodlay
Gold Member
United Kingdom
566 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2003 : 3:56:23 PM
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Just a thought as I have done this myself in the past.
When you go and see the horse video it, and while you are doing that ask the seller loads of questions at the same time. She won't realise that you are actually recording everything she says and you have indisputable evidence of how she has described the horse that nobody can possibly argue against.
A bit sneaky but very helpful if it all turns nasty.
Annie |
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white bryony
Gold Member
United Kingdom
778 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2003 : 4:52:39 PM
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when i looked at my tb mare 8 years ago,she was 5 at the time,the woman we saw didnt own the horse but was selling her for a friend,looked a bit like a dealers yard,the horse is called bosenova [boss],she was in the stable very calm and relaxed when we went to look at her,and she was a good ride,
we were told she had been broken in a year,,and she had been to a couple of shows,
we went to see her again,and to have her vetted,well when the woman got on her this time boss was a different horse,nervy,and not sure what to do,a bit exciteable,well this didnt put me off -i like horses with a spring in their step,
she passed the vet,and decided to buy her,took her home that day,just as we loaded her in the woman decides to tell us that boss pulls back whilst tied up,well we still took her home,
now things dont start to add up,this once calm horse in the stable has gone completely crazy,some of you may be thinking that its because shes in a new home,but even to this day she wont stay in a stable unless others are with her,and we have a grill up for safety.she has been known to push her way through a bolted stable door,
then the farrier comes,and says this is the first set of shoes that this horse has worn,
she also had some nusty girth rubs,
we also went to a show,not far from where we kept her so we rode there,for a horse that has apparently been to shows before she was extremely dangerous,kept rearing half bucking and trying to take off,so we took her back home before any accidents occured.
trying to canter was a joke,boss did not know where to put her feet,so of course we had to start from scratch,
we came to the conclusion that boss had only been broken in 6 weeks when we bought her,had never been to shows and would not stay in a stable on her own,the first time we looked at her she was so calm and relaxed,it makes me wonder if she was even doped,
oh and i forgot to mention,this woman told me not to use my kegs much with boss,why?did she go into some mad panic attack?well i will never know as didnt use my legs much at first i let her begin to trust me,and we gradually progressed,and 2 years after that we entered our first dressage test together and won ,
despite not being told the truth,boss is a fantastic horse to own,,
what is naughty is the fact i was 12 when i looked at boss,and this woman was still prepared to take the risk,,
Emma
 
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Wyllow
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2885 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2003 : 5:55:14 PM
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Yes, that was unforgiveable!
I've had a similar experience in respect of my own daughter of 12 and I wasn't very impressed by the risk that someone was willing to take to rid themselves of a "problem" either.
~Wyl
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pat ww
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3459 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2003 : 6:38:08 PM
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hi Angel, it is because of breeders like the one you mentioned that one of my neighbours has 18 rescued dogs, 2 mastiff's the rest boxers. Most are not re-homeable.
going to court can be the solution, we went to the small claims court over a car bought for my daughter when she was a learner, it had a 'bent' Mot as it was dangerous. the mot was only passed on the day we bought it. The seller tried the usual, I no longer have the money, i spent it, i'm hard up etc, but the court just gave him a 3 month period to pay up.
We also involved the ministry inspectors who gave the MOT station an official warning, and got compensation from them. all in all we covered everything it had cost us, including the tax that we bought and did not use because the car was taken off the road. It turned out also to be a different car than its registration document, that interested the police but I don't know what happened.
Your success will depend on how quickly you now act. Try to get a copy of the advert. up to a point you can still reject 'goods' which do not match the description or are not fit for the purpose within a reasonable time, if that fault could not reasonably have been discovered on your pre purchase inspection
This would cover the clipping and farrier, but do act quickly. Your next step is a recorded delivery letter asking her to take th pony back and refund your money. That starts your date line of dissatisfaction, keeping copies of course.
good luck.
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t_linington
Gold Member
United Kingdom
815 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2003 : 8:43:10 PM
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I brought him on the 25th of september, it has only started coming out as i started the pony of slowly...he had the summer off and was quite fat, so i have naturally worked him gently to begin with, but i think a letter is a good idea.
The worst bit was she told me that i should just sell it on...presumably she means lie....sorry but i could not and would not knowingly endanger any child or rip any one off.
Deep down the pony is a nice chap...just doesn't know a lot, but watching him tonite with jack, i really felt for him......don't know if i could send him back to the old cow!!!!!
But i can't feel sorry for him(Trev tells me)
Will keep you all informed...and thank you for your help and support, as always my 'lines' friends are of sound advice and kind words.
Tina. XX
tina linington |
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Benjamin
Bronze Member
Netherlands
71 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2003 : 10:09:02 PM
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Has anyway locally got a sweet pony they have grown out of but love dearly..with a child who loves a challenge and parents with the time to spent on a more demanding pony? You could always do a swop for a few years if you cant face a situation with the aforementioned bovine!
Pals of mine have swopped a newly broken pony with another family. The pony would not have been suitable for their own daughters for a good number of years.The other family with handy jockey like children (girls) have got a new pony to bring on and their old much loved out grown pony no one could bear to part with and with many miles on the clock now plods happily around with the other little girls on top. At some point one will move on to the great big field in the sky and the younger pony they actually own will return, everyone will have had there fun and all have been kept safe and content.
Pip |
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Wyllow
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2885 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2003 : 10:41:20 PM
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Oh Tina ~ I know how you feel!
I know what it's like to have a pony that been "having a rest" for the summer and gradually have it dawn on me as I tried to do even basic things with him that there was more of a reason behind him "resting" than there appeared to be! In other words...could it be that the owners wanted/needed a rest from him?
I also know what it's like to feel it's nigh on impossible to send an animal back to somewhere if you're in any doubt as to who or what caused it's problems in the first place...and that feeling sorry for it feeling that creeps in...particularly when you know that he's, as you put it, "a nice chap"...
I really do know what it's like and I'm watching this and reading this thread closely as I do so hope you find a swift resolution to all this...and it also may teach me a thing or two aswell.I never seem to learn and although I can dish out what sounds like reasonable suggestions to others ,sometimes, I seldom seem to listen to my own common sense ~ what little of it I have.
Thinking of you in the midst of this with empathy ~ not just sympathy.
~Wyl |
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t_linington
Gold Member
United Kingdom
815 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2003 : 1:51:06 PM
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Hi,
Wyllow...the worst bit is, I always thought I was sensible, not one to be 'done over'. I think i am a bit cross with myself for letting this happen!!
Any way, my instructo came yesterday, and i had 1/2 lesson on the pony, and we will get his back checked..this could be the shortness/skipping in the stride?! Then i will school him and just play it by ear. I don't think i'll ever get any joy from the people who sold him to me, so i'm going to be positive and make the best of a bad situation!!
Wish me luck!!
Tina.
tina linington |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2003 : 1:52:22 PM
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Hi Tina,
I have thought of an option if you really do not want to drag this evil witch through court. Not sure if this will help you or not but I have a friend that owns a riding school, she 'borrowed' my arab gelding 5 years ago and still has him I'm sure she would take the pony as she takes horses for schooling and breaking, then rehomes them (the kids there seem to have no fear of even the wildest), this would depend on how much you want for your pony of course, maybe she has another more suitable pony that you could swop him for. Let me know if you are interested, I can let you have the number, the riding school is based in Cambridgeshire.
Angel |
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