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Vik1
Platinum Member
1711 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Sep 2014 : 11:55:17 PM
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Do you find arabs stubborn?
I ask this as it didnt occur to me. Ive always thought highly sensitive, cant be bullied (as they go into meltdown) into doing things, more having to be persuaded.
I had a lesson today by someone who has a very well known mum (I wont name them). This person got on my boy (now 5yo) and he hated this person. This instructor said I 'made him look easy' and was surprised at the fight he had in trying to get him to work in an outline. I was quite shocked too. I felt he had too strong a contact and my horse took great exception to it. Storm doesnt look like an arab (I can see it but many cant..hes 50% arab). Said they could tell he was arab now that they was riding him because of his stubborn nature....basically refusing to submit. In fact said he was incredibly stubborn.
Ive never thought about it that way before...I see a highly intelligent horse that says 'why should I?...give me a GOOD reason..if its not enjoyable..why should I?'
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Faracat
Silver Member
270 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 12:25:41 AM
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I have two pures (mare and gelding) and one 50% arab. The two mares are really willing and try very hard to get everything right.
My gelding is unbacked, so we'll have to wait and see how he turns out, hopefully he'll calm down a bit with age, but I wouldn't call him stubborn, just excitable and hot. I remember fondly ( ) when I took him for a quiet walk down the lane and the cows came over, so he ended up cantering the whole way with his tail flagged, at my walking pace. |
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debs
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 06:01:51 AM
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Yes... Giz would be as stubborn as a mule if he didn't want to do something, never over relative or meltdown mode. Would say Ali is similar.
Neither were excitable or hot though...maybe that's the difference? |
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Edited by - debs on 14 Sep 2014 06:03:04 AM |
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pinkvboots
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3290 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 07:53:00 AM
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| Last week I was riding Arabi in the school and a friend of mine had just finished schooling her horse so I asked her if she would like to have a sit on him, As she walked round she said omg I am having to really use my legs on him, I find him a bit lazy at times but I have never really thought that his difficult after a while he was going quite nicely for her but she said she was knackered and that I make him look really easy, in the past as soon as someone else used to get on him he would tail swish the whole time and tend to not look very happy but he does seem to have got over that perhaps this not moving thing is his new defiance he can be quite a dominant horse with other horses so maybe his way of being dominant with a rider is just being stubborn and sort of saying no thanks, at times he will try to walk at a snails pace and it can often mean me getting a bit tough and saying no before he will give in, he also is not a flighty or hot type Arab most of the time he has the odd moment but is mainly quite laid back. |
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Goldenmane
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4964 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 08:54:10 AM
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| I wouldn't use that instructor again! Outlines should come naturally and fluidly. A lot of people are prejudiced against Arabs because they are too clever for the normal person. |
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 09:05:29 AM
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I wouldn't say Storm was being stubborn - more like unsure/confused.
Caryn |
Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
     
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
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garnet
Platinum Member
2382 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 11:06:28 AM
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| I think they go beautifully for people who 'get' them and crap for those who don't! That instructor obviously doesn't and shouldn't be allowed on again! |
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Almaas
Junior Member
33 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 12:25:20 PM
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You could have been describing my Arab there but I wouldn't call him stubborn,If you ask him nicely he will try his heart out but he can't be bullied into anything and gets upset if he doesn't understand something and will throw his toys out the pram- I guess this could be mistaken for stubborness.
For example last year I was teaching him leg yield and he started anticipating and diving through his shoulder. The instructor I had was getting me to correct him and try and keep him straight, asking for one step then riding him forward out of it. He got really worked up by this and by the end of the lesson was just grinding to a halt and stamping his feet. There were a couple of other little issues so I tried a different instructor, I introduced him and said he gets upset when he doesn't understand something and she just said let's not get him upset then. With the leg yield she set him up so that he was able to fall through the shoulder but still rewarded him for trying as after all he was doing his best then gradually changed the angle until he was straight rewarding him all the time for every little improvement. He can now do it beautifully.
I think what I am trying to say is that to the first I instructor he was stubborn as he was refusing to go forward and and was behind the leg but he was actually upset that he was doing what he thought was right but then the goalposts were changing and he was told not to do it (he thought he should be going sideways but as soon as he did he got told to go forwards)in that situation he sort of quits and says if I can't do it right there is no point in even trying. The second instructor understood him and found a better way to work with him.
I think Arabs can be less tolerant/ more sensitive then other breeds and not everyone likes this. For example one of the other liveries at my yard expects her horse to stand perfectly still whilst she sprays him with fly spray (and he does) yet she sprays his face and it goes in his eyes which makes me cringe. She was helping me.out and went to spray mines face and I stopped her saying he doesn't like spray on his face. He reaction was that he should get used to it and put up with it, my view was you wouldn't like it why should he put up with it?
What I am.trying to say (in a rambly way) is that I don't think Arabs are stubborn for the sake of it or lazy but they do expect to be treated with respect and get upset if they think they are being unfairly treated. Some.people's views with horses are thAt they should be submissive and made to behave and they are not the ones to have an Arab, Arabs work better in a partnership with their owners. |
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Vik1
Platinum Member
1711 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 2:11:29 PM
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Almaas your last sentence just sums it up nicely! You have to work in partnership! Partnership being the key word. I totally agree, there needs to be a mutual respect for one another.
Well Storm cant be that bad....we did our dressage today. We got 67% and 2nd place in one prelim test. 64% and 6th place in his other prelim...first time in the long arena too. Couple of silly mistakes which brought our marks down. Results speak for themselves!
No I dont think I will be going back to that instructor. I will stick with the lady Ive been getting who seems to understand him. |
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Ari
Platinum Member
1657 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 2:45:51 PM
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I don't think Arabs are stubborn at all. My boy will try his heart out to get things right and yes sometimes he may need encouragement or time to think things through. I have been quietly firm when needed (vet visits or safety issues) but he knows only kindness and the thing I love most about Arabs is they give back what you give them and more.
As for the fly spray; Ari will stand loose for a spray down but he wouldn't if I had ever tried to spray his face.
Almaas you are so right; Arabs thrive on partnerships and don't do well for bullies or fools who mistake fear and confusion for stubbornness.
I spent 20 minutes this morning having a Dartmoor pony turn her bum then run away, now that's stubborn.......did catch her and grandsons got a ride. No advice on how to change her behaviour please, she's been on yard for years has the life of Riley loved to bits by generations of children but a minx to catch between April and November lol |
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M Robson
Silver Member
Wales
398 Posts |
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Almaas
Junior Member
33 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 6:37:54 PM
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Well done on the dressage, as you say results speak for themselves
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Mrs Vlacq
Platinum Member
Wales
3776 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 8:00:26 PM
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| My take on this is Arabs hate being bullied, 'Ask' don't 'demand'. |
    
- V Khazad - V Calacirya & V Sulime - Quarida(L) - V Boogie Knights - V Hamra Tofiq |
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glo
Gold Member
England
1297 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 8:05:58 PM
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I agree not stubborn, a Arab will try to do what you ask, in my option I have never come across a difficult Arab, even Arabs that are difficult to others have never been difficult with me, I find them easy! When worked with they respond. But then I am a Arab person. I think that is what makes a difference it's love or hate, and never can that line be crossed.( well not often)
And I think (I may be wrong) we are more I tune with our horses and tend to be probably more sensitive than others, hence sensitive horses need sensitive riders,handlers etc.
Also like other have said change you instructor.
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Edited by - glo on 14 Sep 2014 8:07:46 PM |
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FireLight
Gold Member
620 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 8:14:55 PM
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I was once told, by an old man who bred arabs, that to get the best from an arab you should negotiate with he/she and work towards a solution you are both happy with - a bit like being married!  |
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Vik1
Platinum Member
1711 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 9:06:29 PM
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yes...Ive often thought you have to ask. Even though he is a gelding I go by 2 sayings
1) tell a gelding, ask a stallion and discuss it with a mare. I find my boy quite stallion like in some respects. I remember having to show him brushing boots and let him say 'yes, Ive had a sniff, thats ok, Ill allow it'. He doesnt let anything near him hes not seen before without checking it out.
The other is the story of the tortoise and the hare....slow and steady wins the race...you just cant push them before they are ready to move onto the next stage. |
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Mags
Silver Member
354 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 10:04:47 PM
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| id get rid of the instructor. No horse is stubborn, its the sort of thing people say when they cant ride the horse instead of admitting there not good enough |
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Vik1
Platinum Member
1711 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 10:19:26 PM
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It was a trial run to see if I wanted to go back regularly. The instructor lives in england and only comes up every couple of months. I was really surprised tbh...this person is a well known rider and rides at international level too. Think they were shocked themselves.
Style just obviously doesnt suit...I know not to go back. |
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brack369
Gold Member
559 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 10:21:09 PM
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Stubborn is one of the last words I would use to describe the Arabian temperament. I would completely agree with you Vik1, they are sensitive and can't be bullied.
It was said on a classical dressage forum recently, that you need to be a very correct and sensitive rider to do justice to an arab. Comment was made that it would be interesting to see how top dressage riders would cope with riding an arab or TB in view of some of the heavy handed techniques used by some.
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Pasch
Platinum Member
2277 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 10:36:04 PM
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Both mine have always gone to great lengths to do what was asked of them (by me or nice person) I would never say they are stubborn.I agree with Almaas about it being a partnership.In fact I believe all horses would do better this way.The difference being that Arabs (and other hot blooded,sensitive breeds) will not do well with a careless,dominant rider/handler.
As for spraying fly spray on face... |
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DianaSC
Bronze Member
Spain
184 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 11:35:59 PM
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"one of the other liveries at my yard expects her horse to stand perfectly still whilst she sprays him with fly spray (and he does) yet she sprays his face and it goes in his eyes which makes me cringe."
What an inconsiderate, cruel and just downright STUPID person.
I have to agree with just about everything said so far. Almaas, you've summed it up brilliantly. Glo, I think you're right in that a sensitive horse person would tend to choose a sensitive breed like the Arab.
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Esther
Gold Member
United Kingdom
866 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2014 : 04:06:26 AM
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I find Spud has a very highly tuned and very accurate numpty sensor. And if he thinks someone is a numpty then the walls go up.
He's never been wrong yet. |
paranoid horsemother
 
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brooke
New Member
29 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2014 : 08:53:43 AM
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Stubbern No
They dont like forcefull riders. |
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glo
Gold Member
England
1297 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2014 : 09:46:54 AM
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| Brooke, that was what I was trying to say! Well said |
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DianaSC
Bronze Member
Spain
184 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2014 : 1:39:08 PM
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My husband was making a fuss of Minnet (age 3) and Kalli (age 18) this morning and said that they did not respond to him as they did to me although they know him well (and he's one of those lovely calm people who animals love). Which got me thinking about my girls now and other Arabs that I worked with in a byegone era. They all seem very much to be "one person" horses.
Do you find yours are the same? |
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Pasch
Platinum Member
2277 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2014 : 1:56:58 PM
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Yes definitively  (sorry no "horse-hug"emoticon!) |
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the arabs nature
