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Zareeba
Bronze Member
62 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 09:57:46 AM
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People following threads about this will have been wondering why I have not come on here to defend myself. The reason is simple: while the case was ongoing it would have been improper for me to make statements about it (not that any such impropriety stops the RSPCA, who have been feeding the press with misinformation, distortions and inaccuracies). That, together with illness caused by all the stress of the trial and its aftermath (not to mention over a week with no internet access), has meant that this is the first real opportunity I have had to tell our side of the story.
We have been vilified in the press by means of biased, inaccurate and misleading reporting of our case. Of course, many people believe what they read in the press. I have made a complaint to the Press Complaints Commission, because such reporting is in breach of their Editors’ Code of Practice. Apart from one reference to our friend Stuart, who by his own admission knows little about horses, I have been able to find no mention in the press (perhaps someone can enlighten me if they have seen such a mention) of other witnesses on our side, for example, of our expert witness, Colin Vogel, our vet, Graham Russ, or our farrier, Neil Jackson, yet all these people gave evidence in our defence (Graham Russ and Neil Jackson have attended to our horses regularly for the past 22 years). Why, then, has their evidence not been reported? There is only one reason: bias. This is a form of trial by media which ignores the most basic principle of British law – the presumption of innocence.
In order to keep this brief, I have posted my statement on one of my websites. Anyone interested in the truth rather than misinformation, distortions and outright lies, please click on the link below.
http://www.black-tent.co.uk/rspcavskipper.aspx
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Lila
Gold Member
Netherlands
1097 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 10:13:54 AM
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| I am so sorry for you. The RSPCA is many times in a bad light is it not?? And I agree with you they kick on publicity. |
M. Lankhaar |
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LIV
Gold Member
England
705 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 10:27:40 AM
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| The truth as you see it but after seeing video footage of how they were kept I think the RSPCA were actually doing their job for a change!!! |
     
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Slave 2 Magic
Gold Member
England
1023 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 12:54:32 PM
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| Regardless of what has been said in the press be it correct or not, the British Justice system found you guilty of severe neglect. THAT is all that matters! |
West Yorkshire
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 1:04:43 PM
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| I must admit I was waiting to read about your defence in the press, and was somewhat disturbed when nothing appeared. The coverage was very one sided. I wanted to know what your vet and farrier had to say, instead we only got the opinion of the RSPCA backed vet and farrier. |
  Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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Maesfen
New Member
27 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 1:12:50 PM
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| This thread is also on HHO. I think the OP might get more of a grilling on there than here; they're not so forgiving of downright cruelty and neglect. |
Be a pauper - have a horse |
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Slave 2 Magic
Gold Member
England
1023 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 1:17:22 PM
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| Maesfen, I have also brought it up on FB. |
West Yorkshire
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jacki
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1988 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 1:30:35 PM
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Guilty in court.you have no defense. i saw the bedding 3ft deep! Some expert you are. don't defend yourself on here. you n other
s like you make me sick! |
sittingbourne kent |
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Rui
AL Admin
6761 Posts |
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Paresh
Gold Member
613 Posts |
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jackiedo
Gold Member
England
1370 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 2:11:26 PM
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| Thank you for coming on and giving us your side of the story Lesley, it has been long awaited |
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kimzi
Gold Member
865 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 3:18:16 PM
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| I am surprised lesley has come on here, i have read her statement (not really much info in it) and i have seen photos. Do i feel that she has been treated unjustly - no. Would i feel confident in employing her as someone to care for horses, well after seeing the photos - no. Did she make an error in judgement as to when was the right time to say goodbye to these poor animals (in whichever way) - quite possibly, but the photos showed that neglect had happened. |
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basbob
Gold Member
France
1356 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 3:31:00 PM
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Well they found you guilty, that's good enough for me - deep litter, looked more like a stage, and no horse, no matter how old, should be that thin. Shame on you.
Someone must have been very concerned about the welfare of your horses to point the RSPCA in your direction in the first place.
If you want to declare your innocence you need to write a more convincing story than that. I'm sorry Lesley but I do have faith in the British legal system
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jaybird
Gold Member
France
1192 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 3:53:51 PM
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Guilty Verdict does it for me...doubt if many are interested in your side...after seeing the utter disgrace...pictures don't lie..!!
Beryl
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cmj
Silver Member
France
383 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 4:11:20 PM
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We saw the pictures. Are they Photoshopped? I think not. You have lost all credibility as an "expert". If you were a novice owner and had been told by more experienced people that the horses were OK, deep litter bedding in height limited stables was OK then I might have a bit of understanding. In what world is it OK to let bedding get to that height when stable roof is low and horses have limited head room and limited fresh air? Deep litter in a great big open steel framed barn with masses of headroom and fresh air, not a problem.
The thin horse.....had you just rescued it? No, so it must have degenerated to that pitiful sight. You have to let them go before they get to such an awful state if they have an illness which simply can't allow them to respond to medication/feeding, if indeed this was the problem rather than just inadequate food input.
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Kazzy
Platinum Member
England
3335 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 4:12:53 PM
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So is the British legal system now flawed? Sounds like you think it is.
Lesley, your horses were kept in an appalling condition, some of them suffered in your hands, thats the resaon why you were found guilty of neglect.
Why did you not ask for help? that alone makes me wonder that you really thought that you were doing nothing wrong and like a previous poster said, your horses must have been of some concern for you to be reported to the RSPCA.
Janet |
     
Sunny Cheshire |
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rosie
Platinum Member
England
3662 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 4:49:50 PM
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I was unsure whether to reply to this or not but there are 2 sides to every story.
I was truly shocked when I first heard about this case.
I visited your yard Lesley about 20 years ago and at that point you both loved and cared for your horses.
I don't know what has gone wrong over the last few years?
I knew about this case a few months after the horses were rescued.
2 people I know (both independant of each other) who were involved in the rescue and the stories they told me and the photos I have seen are truly appalling. It was neglect on a terrible level.
You lost my respect Lesley when you didn't have the courage to ask for help when it was needed.
I for one, would have gladly given up a weekend or 2 to help muck out and get things back shipshape as would other people in the North East of England.
You are lucky that not all the photos have been published.
It is very sad for the horses concerned but at least they are not suffering now |
     
Last picture courtesy of Sweet Photography |
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pinkvboots
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3290 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 5:34:53 PM
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| I saw the pictures and from that I don't think you have any defence in my opinion, there is no excuse for the height of those beds that was from months of not mucking out, horses with laminitis need to be on deep beds but clean not filth which they were, the grey horse looked emaciated in those pictures, in fact I find it quite an insult to peoples intelligence in regards to some of the claims you have made in your defence. |
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tiny
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
161 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 6:55:21 PM
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| Sorry the photos spoke for themselves and as much as I'm not a fan of the RSPCA the facts were there for everyone to see. Guilty as charged no sympathy here..... |
claire fowler |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 7:04:45 PM
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I will simply say here that as a result of PERSONAL EXPERIENCE with the RSPCA, I would not trust them to assess the welfare state of a clothes horse.
The fact that someone as high profile as Colin Vogel was prepared to put his reputation on the line in this instance speaks volumes.
However, as the American saying goes "haters gonna hate", whatever information is put forward.
I will say though that as someone who has done deep litter for many years, I found the depth of bedding shown inexcusable.
Keren |
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Zenitha
Gold Member
England
1078 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 7:14:37 PM
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Luckily, we have eyes to see for ourselves the level of neglect that was involved in this case.
Many of us have cared for elderly horses , yes they do lose weight and become angular - but the horse in that photo was EMACIATED.
That wasn't deep litter - it was a mountain of filth.
Please, don't try to defend yourself - there IS no defence for letting animals suffer in this way  |
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Bonnie
Bronze Member
England
179 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 8:01:23 PM
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I am one of those who has made my own mind up ,Lesley.Thank you for coming back on and answering my unanswered questions.Firstly I know one or two arabian owners who have/had older arabs who were basically kept going by specialised feeding.Any of these horses seen in the feild looked worse than your grey in the pic.Yours however had a bright ,kind eye .Our tb dropped weight extremely quickly last year which showed a jumpers bump also, and at that point I actually became aware how bad he would look to anyone who didn't know the circumstances.He is now alot heavier and just as he was before last winter.
Any ALs rushing to add negative comments please remember we're not all the same and some owners find it hard to PTS older animals when they're happy,eating ok but still look thinner.
Many of us have heard good and bad of RSPCA,but If my animals were under a vet/farrier and were not actually suffering,I would feel hard done to .
HOWEVER THE BEDDING WAS TOO DEEP BY FAR ,AND although I know one arabian breeder who uses this and said on here she does,there is a level when it should be removed and started again.Unfortunately Lesley is guilty as charged.Horseowners should watch and learn from these experiences. |
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sunny
Silver Member
252 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 8:02:29 PM
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| Where can these photos of neglect be found?? ive not seen them. |
South Lincolnshire |
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georgiauk
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2605 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 8:12:34 PM
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| Very plausible response for an author, I almost believed it myself especially as I'm not a great fan of the RSPCA...... however the photographs speak volumes and I can't imagine any vet euthanizing a healthy animal to enhance the RSPCA's image or to gain a conviction in court. JMO, guess I've made my mind up ! |
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basbob
Gold Member
France
1356 Posts |
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zooscat
Gold Member
United Kingdom
882 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 8:15:51 PM
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Thank you, Ms Skipper, for posting your statement about the Court hearing and its recent outcome. Most interesting. I find your defence of the state in which your horses were when seen by the BHS and RSPCA is at best, too little, too late; at worst, pride and complacency.
I am reassured by the Court's decision to ban you and Mr Skipper from keeping horses for as long as you live; at least no other horses will suffer like Nivaliis and his companions did.
I believe that the British Courts and Justice system to be fair and unbiased, even when dealing with highly emotive subjects, such as animal cruelty. The evidence was tried in Court, with three of the magistracy considering its merits. Not just one judge. This must have given more chance of bias being challenged. If you believe that you and Mr Skipper are the victims of a miscarriage of justice, I suggest you appeal. I would be very interested, as may many others.. Please advise the equestrian press of this event, should it occur, so we do not miss the outcome. |
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RSPCA vs Skipper - the truth
