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RUTHIE
Gold Member
 United Kingdom
1238 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Oct 2012 : 7:33:07 PM
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Hi everyone!
I would like to train my Crabbet to be light in my hand and I will say he is very strong at the moment. He is 2 and a half, very confident in himself, quick and intelligent.....of course he is, he's an arab! Iam looking for guidance in flexion with or without a bit. Would it be better to train bitless (Quarabian would love your input) or go down the long reining route. Iam trying to avoid a fight with each other and work on a sensitive method. He gets bored very easily and thrives on excitement to hold his attention. Warning bells have gone off that he is forward thinking and Iam trying to utilise this energy postively to avoid unpleasant behaviour kicking off.
Thoughts and constructive, postive advice please! 
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In Memory of Crystal Flash 2010-2012 |
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Quarabian
Platinum Member
Wales
4340 Posts |
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Suelin
Platinum Member
England
2514 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2012 : 7:46:06 PM
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| Ruthie,unless I am misunderstanding you, I would say that he is at the age of two and a half, somewhat too young to be considering this kind of training. |
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Quarabian
Platinum Member
Wales
4340 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2012 : 9:01:18 PM
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here I am !! Thanks for asking Ruthie.
Firstly I presume you are only working in hand. Good. Forget long reining until you have sorted the strong in hand issue.
I would work in a halter or head collar. If you prefer a monty dually then fine but I don't find it necessary. It is your timing and precision that gets the lightness. Arabs usually get it very quickly.
Start with lateral flexion. Standing on his left side pull his head gently to the left. He will probably step to the left. That is okay, just keep the tension (don't pull, just meet the pressure that he is giving you and keep it steady) the second he gives to the pressure release your hold completely. That is the timing thing. Eveb if you only imagine that he has given in to the pressure let it go. He will probably walk around in circles with you at first but persevere until he is a) standing still and b) relaxing to the pressure. Does this make sense? if not you probaly need to see it done. It isn't cruel or harsh but it is very effective. Whwen you can do this you can prohgress to walking forward and using the flexion to stop him pulling.
This will make turning out and bringing him in so much easier. Also you can teach him to flex towards you when you take the heasd collar.Perhaps I should make a video! |
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RUTHIE
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1238 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2012 : 9:10:32 PM
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| Hmm Suelin this is the future. Looking for guidance next year as he becomes three. This is not intensive training in such a young horse at the moment. Iam looking for lessons we can learn together to utilise harmomy and trust. Whatever we do now will have an impact on how we progress. Iam trying to implement the right tools for his and my future. |
In Memory of Crystal Flash 2010-2012 |
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RUTHIE
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1238 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2012 : 9:16:41 PM
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| Quarabian....perhaps a video would be good. Positive points. People, please Iam not intensely training my young man, but looking for advice to help me when strong behaviour occurs and how to deal with it sensitively, especially when he is being rude! |
In Memory of Crystal Flash 2010-2012 |
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zebedeedeb
Gold Member
England
516 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2012 : 10:17:28 PM
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| hi ruthie. my little lad is 2 and half too,and over 15 hh, i have been doing groundwork with him since he was 6 months old,, only occasionally, maybe once or twice a month,, its all they need as they have long memories,, although he is very exuberant when loose, he wouldnt dream of even pulling when haltered, the hind quarter yield is one of the best things to teach bargy horses, as it takes all the power away from the rear end,, as a behaviourist its what we teach most of handling problems,,,if you can control the feet then you control the horses forward movement, also maybe he needs to be able to know that he can rely and trust you,, this is where playing with scary objects comes in,, slow and steady, and lots and lots of retreat,, in the end you will find he will be more curious and less rude,, and waiting to see what you want to do next,, good luck,, hope you have lots of fun together,, deb |
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Quarabian
Platinum Member
Wales
4340 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 12:00:35 AM
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Yes I agree the hind quarter yeild is good too. How do you do that deb? I might ask with my hand on their side to move away from me, or look at their quarters and twirl the rope until they move away.
Forgot to mention, whatever you do on the left side, repeat on the right.
This is somethguing I do with youngsters going to and from the field. I rarely do any specific training unless they need something. By the time I come to ride they are light enough and understanding of what I want that I can ride in the head collar. I am not saying everyone should do that though.
Looking forward to hearing how you get on. Is he the little bay person doing airs above the ground in your sig pics?
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Suelin
Platinum Member
England
2514 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 06:48:53 AM
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| Apologies Ruthie, from your initial post I read it that you were doing ridden work, hence my question. Good luck with your ponio. |
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martha615
Gold Member
England
1053 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 08:07:46 AM
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My favourite groundwork is pretty much what they do in Parelli. I am re-starting a 13 year old broodmare who was rearing under saddle and sold to me for very little because the owner had understandably grown afraid of her. I even had to sign a paper saying she was unwarranted and sold only as a broodmare.
Now, I've been "doing Parelli" for 6 years, so the way in which I begin working with a horse is pretty established. I do things automatically and easily now whereas once upon a time I was very clumsy with ropes and sticks and all that.
My little mare, who arrived at my place the first week of September, is the OPPOSITE of your boy. She is innately fearful, nervous, twitchy, and likes to be reassured. She is not very playful yet (this will come with confidence!) but she is very smart! All over my sand school are little tiny jumps and poles and tyres laid out on the ground, a big shiny tarpolin, a lot of traffic cones. We do stuff with all these "toys" and even though she is a fairly worried horse innately, she is becoming more confident with me. I am now riding her daily at walk and she is coming along. These days I can bounce rubber balls all around her, roll them off her back, get her to push one with her nose even. So, that is what I am doing with my mare anyway and you can get all of the basics of level 1 on line for free at www.parelliconnect.com. You can join for free for a month and after that the website access costs £11/month. However, you can cancel it.
As far as groundwork is concerned, it is a wonderful system. For my arab, it has totally change her whole attitude. And even though she is already very light in hand, I do use a Parelli "string" halter as it makes communication much clearer and the release is instant. She is extremely unlikely to pull -- but that isn't the only reason people like those "natural horsemanship" halters. She is too busy hiding behind me, but the halter is very useful because the release is 100% and it is when you release them that they think, "oh THAT is what you want!"
As for your horse's age, yeah, you BETTER be doing something or that smart kid is going to be all over you teaching you, it sounds! LOL! I wish my mare were more innately confident like that -- your boy will loads of fun, it sounds!!! |
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RUTHIE
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1238 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 08:28:03 AM
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Thanks for your replies. Sorry should have made my topic a bit clearer....this is in-hand work lol! No worries, Suelin. Quarabian, yes thats the fella in my sig pics, as a yearling.
I like the hind yield. Does anyone have any ideas regarding when we are out walking? He is very forward going, but I would like to slow him down a bit. I try pressure/release, but there is an element of throwing his weight into his head...if that makes sense. He is not rude, just interested and happy. |
In Memory of Crystal Flash 2010-2012 |
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martha615
Gold Member
England
1053 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 08:44:40 AM
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If you are out walking and he wants to get in front of you, I might let him do that and have him circle around you as you walk, then use HQ yields to change direction quite frequently. If he were uncomfortably exhuberant, I would have him change quite frequently, even if that means he doesn't complete a circle. If he walks along beside or behind you, just let him do that and no yields or pressure.
So, you are saying, "Oh, fine, you want to move your feet. Good! Just stay in this circle, and would you mind going the other direction now? Great. Another circle, fab. How about a change again? Clever boy!" Your attitude will be positive and he won't feel "wrong". If you INSIST he walks behind you at this stage, and he is not ready for that, and yank in short, sharp bursts, he might rear. But if you let him move his feet when he really has to, then time your asking him to stay behind you with smaller "suggestions" of bumping him back when he's really quite ready for that, it would be okay. And he may put himself there anyway soon enough, especially if you are doing a lot of directing the traffic of his feet without slowing him down.
It's hard to explain what I mean. If the horse is being to forward and you are losing control, you have to gain control, but this can be by redirecting the energy. However, sometimes you DO have to correct. If he's totally running over you, for example. But then, even that can be done without directing aggression his way. Do a lot of jumping jacks if you can do that while managing to walk, lol!!!! |
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Pop
Platinum Member
England
3051 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 1:08:13 PM
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| Am I right? And don't do a circle with him? Stand still and keep facing the same way, swap the rope over behind you; if he wants to move his feet, fine, but don't let him make you move yours? Or did someone already say that? Dunno, just a thought. |
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martha615
Gold Member
England
1053 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 3:24:19 PM
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| Yes, you are right, Pop (or at least, this is the way I'd try)! So, let the horse do his lap around you and just keep walking with no worries about the fact the horse feels it necessary to do all this extra walking. But no, don't do the circle with him! |
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RUTHIE
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1238 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2012 : 5:58:38 PM
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| Will have to try that. It is a good way to get control in a positive way. He does barge if he wants to in his direction, not mine. Thanks martha615 and Pop. I guess the aim is he has to work harder by circling around me and therefore giving him something to think about. Cheers for that |
In Memory of Crystal Flash 2010-2012 |
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martha615
Gold Member
England
1053 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2012 : 5:36:45 PM
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Ruthie, one other thing I was going to say was look into Carolyn Resnick! I seriously think this is worthwhile stuff and it is perfect to do with him right now. She's the Waterhole Ritual woman....visit her website and you'll see what I mean. It sounds very hippy-dippy but I think she's actually quite a horsewoman!!!
Can't wait to hear more about his progress! |
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Kharidian
Platinum Member
England
4297 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2012 : 6:12:11 PM
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Ruthie, when Chips got too forward-going/joggy out on walks as a yearling I would tell him "no" and "waaaalllk" and slow my walk to a snails pace - only speeding up again when he was walking nicely. He soon learnt that he got nowhere unless he was swinging along at a good walk on a loose rope.
Caryn |
Kharidian (Prince Sadik x Khiri)........ Alkara Cassino (H Tobago x Rose Aboud)
aka "Roger".................................... aka "Chips"
     
The first image is from an original painting by Pat Shorto.
South-East Essex |
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RUTHIE
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1238 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2012 : 6:17:18 PM
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Thanks martha, read with interest your other thread on this lady.....I will check her out. BTW did that circle exercise today and it did some what bemuse him! He looks at me like he is saying 'for goodness sake, just get on my back and lets go for a hack'!
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In Memory of Crystal Flash 2010-2012 |
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RUTHIE
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1238 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2012 : 6:24:03 PM
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| Thanks Kharidian, I have tried that and it does work. The thing I find difficult is turning him away from me (Iam on his left) as he wants to ride over me to go back to the stables from the school. Would appreciate an exercise to with this. |
In Memory of Crystal Flash 2010-2012 |
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Mrs Vlacq
Platinum Member
Wales
3776 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2012 : 1:27:47 PM
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I've seen Ruthie's boy and he does just set his shoulder and go, often his face not looking where he's going, so I think he needs to learn to be a bit more considered in what he is doing generally - think first, then act.
There's no malice in him, he's a total character, and rightly R adores him
Lots of good advice here - basically watch for where he is placing the power in his shoulders and once you've found the key to preventing/addressing that you'll be set up. I have a yrling that does the same for picking up one foot, so we do rubbery-bendy-banana pony games in her box until she's got out of the mindset and actually offers me that foot. These youngsters and their foibles... |
    
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RUTHIE
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1238 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2012 : 5:19:26 PM
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Thank you, Mrs. Vlacq for your kind words and observations of Flash.  moment at the North Wales Arab group show when I let go of him! It is a matter of re directing his 'throw' of weight into his shoulder and circle him away. Flash, you have been scuppered! |
In Memory of Crystal Flash 2010-2012 |
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Sensitive Training
