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Fee
Platinum Member
2601 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 8:30:20 PM
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Sahir the human race are a disgrace and they never learn! Geez sometimes I think we just get worse!
Fee
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basbob
Gold Member
France
1356 Posts |
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Offira
Platinum Member
England
1583 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 8:48:37 PM
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Not sure if I am allowed to post the link so if you google "Nivalis the horse that lived" - and then scroll down it is about Nivalis (obviously!) and his battle with laminitis.
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borleybird
Bronze Member
184 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 9:06:56 PM
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I have thought long and hard about posting on this thread but feel I need to. I am not making excuses for neglect as it is never acceptable but just reading the reports on this case shows there is something wrong. Anyone who can justify to themselves that having the flu and a few days of cold weather is a good enough reason for not mucking out for months has to have a slightly different take on reality to me. Even the Judge described their evidence as 'vague and misleading'.
Has anyone ever heard of body dysmorphia? People with severe anorexia look at themselves in the mirror and see that they are fat when their body weight is so low they are close to death, thats how powerful mental illness can be. I work in menal health and could give a long long list of situations where people have not been able to make rationale decisions or be able to see the reality of their situations because of their mental distress.
Another minor point, there has been a lot of discussion about depression in this tread. From what I can work out, the mental health issues here are bi-polar affective disorder and PTSD. Please correct me if I am wrong. ( I know I am nit picking but we might as well get our facts straight if we are acting as judge and jury)
Why dont we all wait until the professionals have evaluated the couples mental health before we jump to conclusions? I will echo what has already been said, we cant change what has happened but as a community, what can we learn and what can we do differently in the future? |
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Pheebs
Gold Member
944 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 9:13:53 PM
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| I don't wish to argue with anybody but turning on each other isn't going to achieve anything, and it certainly isn't going to help the poor horses involved. Please bear in mind that we ALL share a love for horses despite our various methods and beliefs. This website was designed to unite us and instead people continue to set against each other. In a world full of so much anger and hate, are we really going to continue that theme here, a place where we are all meant to be sharing and enjoying our love for the same thing? |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
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beau
Gold Member
United Kingdom
806 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 09:04:38 AM
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I have to say all this saddens me. It saddens me for the horses and it saddens me that there is argueing.
Adja - your post on page 4 - i agree,
CMJ - Page 6 - i agree,
Pheebs - page 7 - i agree,
I like alot of you am confused. I dont know the facts, I only know from the media and this thread what has happened. But I will say this... I have only ever had one horse at a time, I dont have the time, energy or money for more than one. But that horse has his teeth and back checked every 6 months, he/she is wormed regularly. I watch he/she eat, graze and trot up regularly looking for signs that he/she is happy and comfortable, i groom him/her daily at the same time I am bonding with my horse and I will notice any cuts etc, I muck out daily at the same time I will know if the bedding is wetter than normal or if he/she has had a fretful night, he/she has fresh water and ad-lib hay, and every year i spend hours trawling the internet etc for the best feed, rugs etc etc for him/her. I liaise with my vet and when its time to let go i prepare for it and he/she doesnt suffer, If i am not able to tend to him/her for whatever reason (i cant just walk away from the operating table to tend to him/her) I have a mobile phone and i use it to call people, not even necessarily my friends but sometimes people i have acquainted through my love of horses and they help me out because they love horses too. Because the horses are more important! I like to think that most if not all horse owners are like me.
I hope there wasn't neglect here i really do, if there was then I am just sad. Sad becuse of the suffering and sad that these people didnt ask for help.
P.s - one thing I did read was that the woman was unable to muck out as deep-littered and would need a 'digger'. I have known people 'deep-litter' and have never known anyone to 'NEED' to use a digger? Is the use of a 'digger' usual practice?? |
Edited by - beau on 09 Sep 2012 09:08:43 AM |
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kimzi
Gold Member
865 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 10:18:55 AM
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I have to agree with sahir on this one,Depression in the form of bi-polar - when you are on a high you can take on the world single handedly and everything is a joyful hightened adrenaline filled challenge, when you are on a low the rest of the world can go stick themselves and motivation is a problem - a good network of friends really is essential and preferably ones who notice when you are sliding down and refuse to let you sink all the way. PTSD so many people have gone through this, you often don't sleep, worry about things uneccasarily and it also carries alot of the same symptoms of the low end of the bi-polar scale. Best treatment and remedy has to be to go down the yard and get stuck in just you and your horses, no judgement, just peace and the chance to focus on the task at hand and remove yourself from the stresses of the outside world.
Psychiatrists often don't help but the right medications can be wonderful.
But unless you have had an incident where you are missing and nobody knows that the animals exist there is no excuse for what has happened. |
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debs
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 11:16:24 AM
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Great post!
Originally posted by beau
I have to say all this saddens me. It saddens me for the horses and it saddens me that there is argueing.
Adja - your post on page 4 - i agree,
CMJ - Page 6 - i agree,
Pheebs - page 7 - i agree,
I like alot of you am confused. I dont know the facts, I only know from the media and this thread what has happened. But I will say this... I have only ever had one horse at a time, I dont have the time, energy or money for more than one. But that horse has his teeth and back checked every 6 months, he/she is wormed regularly. I watch he/she eat, graze and trot up regularly looking for signs that he/she is happy and comfortable, i groom him/her daily at the same time I am bonding with my horse and I will notice any cuts etc, I muck out daily at the same time I will know if the bedding is wetter than normal or if he/she has had a fretful night, he/she has fresh water and ad-lib hay, and every year i spend hours trawling the internet etc for the best feed, rugs etc etc for him/her. I liaise with my vet and when its time to let go i prepare for it and he/she doesnt suffer, If i am not able to tend to him/her for whatever reason (i cant just walk away from the operating table to tend to him/her) I have a mobile phone and i use it to call people, not even necessarily my friends but sometimes people i have acquainted through my love of horses and they help me out because they love horses too. Because the horses are more important! I like to think that most if not all horse owners are like me.
I hope there wasn't neglect here i really do, if there was then I am just sad. Sad becuse of the suffering and sad that these people didnt ask for help.
P.s - one thing I did read was that the woman was unable to muck out as deep-littered and would need a 'digger'. I have known people 'deep-litter' and have never known anyone to 'NEED' to use a digger? Is the use of a 'digger' usual practice??
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Maesfen
New Member
27 Posts |
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Sahir
Gold Member
England
847 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2012 : 08:36:59 AM
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I used to "deep-litter" my horses every winter, managed properly it is a good bedding system, but as I said it must be managed properly, I no longer do it as only have 3 horses now. What the Skippers did (or didn't do) wasn't deep litter - it was neglect & cruelty, a can't be bothered to muck out attitude. I am not allowed to put into words my true feelings for those ******. Hope you're reading this Lesley Skipper !!!
Elaine. |
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phoenixbruka
Gold Member
England
1190 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2012 : 08:49:09 AM
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absolutaly elaine ! and i note said person hasnt been on to "defend" or "give the whole story" that we are all supposedly unaware of as previosly stated? i presume thats because we already have the whole story? for the BHS to report her to the RSPCA really speaks volumes to me!
SHAME on you lesley skipper to put animals who rely on you for their every need through this suffering 
susie
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www.liveryatcordwell.co.uk |
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Fee
Platinum Member
2601 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2012 : 09:30:43 AM
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I just can't even imagine a bed so deep it's needs a digger to remove it!  I hope this thread about the horrors suffered by the horses here serve as a warning and alarm bells to people either not coping, thinking they're not going to cope this winter and/or keeping horses in unacceptable conditions (for whatever reason(s) Seek  please. There's no shame in that 
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Sahir
Gold Member
England
847 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2012 : 09:35:52 AM
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I agree Fee - that's why the AHS have a Welfare Officer (Sue Bundy) who does a stirling job & is always there to help.
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rosie
Platinum Member
England
3662 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2012 : 1:24:37 PM
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I am absolutely disgusted about this whole situation.
My close friends know how much I know about this.
YES THE DEEP LITTER WAS DISGUSTINGLY DEEP - I HAVE THE PHOTOS TO PROVE IT!!!
YES THE HORSES WERE STOOD IN THE RAFTERS BECAUSE THE SH** WAS SO DEEP!!!
YES THERE IS A HORSE THAT IS STILL IN THE HANDS OF THE RSPCA - HIS STORY IS HORRIFIC!!!
SO SAD WHEN THERE IS HELP OUT THERE IF ONLY THEY ASKED???????
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Last picture courtesy of Sweet Photography |
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MirandaToo
Silver Member
England
381 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2012 : 1:33:53 PM
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Hmmm, said I wouldn't post on this as don't like commenting on people/situations I don't know, and I've only just looked at the links provided, but....
Got to ask! The RSPCA went middle of June and said neglect had taken place between middle May and June.... the defence was the stables had been deep littered because of the -20c weather. Now, I've never been to that neck of the woods and I DO agree it has been a cr*ppy summer, but really....
Or was it a case of 'forgetting' the stables needed mucking out from (for sake of arguement) March to May? |
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Fee
Platinum Member
2601 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2012 : 2:19:44 PM
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So far as I can remember since I've been a member on this forum (6.5 years) Paula was always insistent that people didn't say anything they wanted to for fear of libel.
People say about all these people leaving etc and I just don't think that's the reason and tbh I don't even see people leaving either. I think people just post less because of FB. I think some people are ****ed off because they cant get to say what they like like they do on FB. Also, it doesn't mean you have to be 'nice' on a well moderated forum, it just means you have to think before you 'speak' and that's no bad thing for some 
Fee
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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2012 : 2:33:26 PM
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Personally, I think she'll be found perfectly sane and then no 'excuses' can be made on her behalf. That amount of deep litter has taken years to accumulate.
At the time the RSPCA went in she'd just had her new book published 'Understanding the Arabian Horse'......her next title is 'Mucking out, Veterinarian Care and opening bags of feed' I make no apology for my sarcasm !!
To make it worse, for me, she came on here the day that poor stallion was PTS doing the 'poor me, poor me' ACT and implying it had been her painful and difficult decision when it was the RSPCA and her vet. She even stated she'd dedicate her next book to the horse......FFS !!!!! It just lacked remore, compassion and is insulting to anyone of us that read it. I hope she is a/ banned from keeping horses and b/ banned from writing her ****e !!!!
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jaybird
Gold Member
France
1192 Posts |
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Silver
Silver Member
279 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2012 : 3:56:58 PM
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| The day she posted on here about her poor stallion,was the day she made mugs of us that felt sorry for her.Thats just my opinion of course |
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basbob
Gold Member
France
1356 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2012 : 4:35:28 PM
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For the BHS to alert the RSPC is unusual isn't it ?
Like Miranda Too says from a minus 20 winter to the 14th June is a lot of muck!
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jackiedo
Gold Member
England
1370 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2012 : 4:54:30 PM
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| can I ask again - please. how is Zareeba? he is an old gelding. If he needs a home I am offering |
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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2012 : 5:24:47 PM
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There was no mention of a gelding was there......2 mares PTS and the stallion and then a part bred stallion taken in ??
If you ask the lady who has taken Parys in Elaine she might be able to help you as her friend was one of the first to go into the property. Sorry I can't be any more help, had he already died :( |
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garnet
Platinum Member
2382 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2012 : 7:03:32 PM
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| I too was puzzled about the apparent time lapse? |
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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2012 : 08:21:30 AM
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Jackiedo
People are going to make enquiries about Zareeba but there was no gelding present at the time they were taken/PTS. Do you know when he was actually with LS ?? The last time he was seen there ?? Perhaps her vet could confirm whether he had been PTS sleep previously ??
I got slated for my views and lack of compassion for LS but you know I couldn't give a damn.....if there is another horse out there suffering then he is the important one. Let's hope for a positive outcome for Zareeba. |
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what is happening?
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