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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
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Pop
Platinum Member
England
3051 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 10:00:03 PM
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Yes thanks Paul. In fact everyday is a good day. I'm never afraid to state my opinion, and I'm never afraid to listen to the views of others, even if what I sometimes hear them say is quite frightful.
Its a comfort to me that they don't have any more horses, otherwise this forum would have excluded itself from being made welcome to help, given some of the views expressed. |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 10:05:14 PM
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Pop, according to the reports they have a further 7 horses which the RSPCA did not feel were at risk/suffering, 3 were destroyed and another was taken away but is still alive.
"AN equine author and her husband have been found guilty of causing unnecessary suffering to four of their 11 horses.
Lesley Skipper, 61, and her husband, Brian, 56, each denied four counts of causing unnecessary suffering to their horses and two charges of failing to ensure the animals’ welfare
Following an inspection by the RSPCA on June 14 last year, two of the animals at the couple’s stables on Sadberge Lane, in Middleton St George, near Darlington, were found to be suffering from chronic laminitis, a foot disease which causes lameness and walking problems, while another had serious dental problems.
The laminitis in the hooves of one of the horses, an Arab stallion named Nivalis, which had belonged to the couple since it was five months old, was so severe it was euthanised on site.
Two of the animals were put down a few weeks later, while another remains in RSPCA care." Same source as quoted above.
I would like to think that people on this forum would feel that they could continue to ask here for help - there are a lot of good people here and great things have been achieved in the past.
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  Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
Edited by - Callisto on 06 Sep 2012 10:13:52 PM |
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justine
Gold Member
England
641 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 10:18:10 PM
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What a load o sh*t!
Mental health problems... They were not admitted to a hospital, means not dangerous or risk to public. Means they have control. They could have called for help!
I cannot judge as I dont know full details but Im disgusted.
Their mental problems have only just started! |
jbassindale |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 10:40:10 PM
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I think before you all leap in like vultures (possibly that is a mixed metaphor...), I would like you to ponder this simple statement:
THERE BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD GO I.
You might think nothing like this could happen to you - but one single problem can escalate until no matter how you try, things are beyond your control. And believe it or not, not everyone has friends who are in a position to drop everything and muck out for you in the depths of winter.
THIS COULD HAPPEN TO ANY OF YOU, AT ANY TIME.
Will you accept the judgmental attitude of some of the posts on this list then? Just stop and think about it for a bit.
I am not defending whatever abuse may have occured - I am just reminding you that NO-ONE is immune from having their world come crashing down around them. The next 'victim' could be YOU.
Keren |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 10:56:02 PM
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| Well said Keren |
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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Pasch
Platinum Member
2277 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 11:02:14 PM
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| Keren,Pop,Callisto,good posts,thinking along your lines,so not much to add to what you already said. |
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justine
Gold Member
England
641 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 11:40:47 PM
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MinHe- you know nothing about me.
You think life is a breeze?
Im saying, they could have asked for help, they have internet quite obviously! |
jbassindale |
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justine
Gold Member
England
641 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 12:02:04 AM
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So, its ok to neglect horses if you have mental problems?
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jbassindale |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 12:07:33 AM
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| Don't be simplistic - nobody has said that it was ok to neglect horses, what I would hope (but given some of the reactions on this and other threads it's possibly unlikely) is that anybody that finds themselves in a position where they find they need help or a situation to keep their beloved horses safe, that they will be able to post on here without being in fear of judgemental posts. |
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
Edited by - Callisto on 07 Sep 2012 12:23:44 AM |
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tiny
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
161 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 12:35:15 AM
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Sat on hands long enough me thinks......
Not that long ago a young lady came on here looking for horses that she had previously owned and many of you gave her some good advice until the truth had come out about the neglect of her horses resulting in some being pts and others dying quite painful unnecessary deaths. Suddenly she was shunned and the advice stopped and the comments calling her what she was began.
Why then is it different now? This person has knowingly let these horses suffer resulting in death for 3..... I can see that there should be one way of thinking for one relatively unknown and another for someone that is known by many!!
Neglect is neglect dress it up how you will but using the cold weather as an excuse is quite frankly laughable, having the flu..... What for all the time it took these animals to get in this state.... I think not!! And as for mental health being dragged into it please you have to be kidding me.... A person is mentally stable enough to write a book and earn a living but not to see the poor bloody horses were suffering..... Come on!!
Seems to me people are scared to stand up and say publicly that was this woman has done is disgusting and deserves to be punished accordingly.... Just because this time we can put a face to the name doesn't make the crime any less serious!! |
claire fowler |
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adja
Bronze Member
97 Posts |
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RUTHIE
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1238 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 07:18:37 AM
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| At last some more posters who are on the same track as me.....Karen, well said adja your comments are most welcome and positive. Justine, does your tongue have to be quite so caustic? |
     
In Memory of Crystal Flash 2010-2012 |
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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 07:27:47 AM
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The Arab Horse Society runs an effective Welfare Department run admirably by Sue Bundy.....very understanding and only a phone call away.
I, for one, cannot believe some of your 'understanding' of this case. Perhaps if you had seen the lives these poor horses lived and not the one she painted you would not 'side' with the author and her 'health'. She herself said she was dedicating her next book to the stallion. Not to ill to write but too ill to do some proper real world essential equine care !!! |
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Timbercroft
Gold Member
Wales
936 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 07:35:36 AM
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This is just my feelings and we are all entitled to them… I feel VICTIM is only a word that can be used for the poor horses, NO one else.
I would agree no reason should stop you seeing to your horses and if you’re unable then you should arrange for someone to step in and help.
Sadly horses have suffered again and it just seems mental health gets dragged in (With good reason or not, is it really an excuse? That the court will decide ) …I don’t know this lady or read any of her books but its so sad someone with so much horses experience has allowed the horses to end up this way.
I do hope if people do need help they would post on here for it ... but this should not stop people posting how they feel about this. We all have different feelings about it or see it in a different light and always will I’m sure.
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www.lma-arabians.co.uk |
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pinkvboots
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3290 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 08:20:47 AM
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Omg if what delyth has said is true about writing another book that is a disgrace,
How can you neglect and cause your horses death and then dedicate your book to him, sorry mental health issues i dont buy it.
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Pasha
Platinum Member
England
3622 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 10:20:24 AM
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I'm sorry but I just cannot in any way feel any sympathy towards this pair! Surely if they were so mentally ill they couldn't understand that their horses were in need of help, they themselves would be in a state? They managed to look after themselves pretty well didn't they? And let's not forget, there are 2 of them - both of them so mentally ill they couldn't understand what they were doing? I don't buy it for a second!!!
How could she write a post on here enlisting sympathy for the loss of her stallion when it was the RSPCA who had to put him down due to her severe neglect? That to me screams that she is only interested in herself!
Those that think we are being to judgemental without knowing all the facts - would you feel the same if that was a child that had been left is such a bad state that it died? If they are that ill then they should never have had horses in the first place and they should be in specialist care!
It brings me to tears to think of anything suffering in that way! |
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Qui Gon Jinn
Platinum Member
Scotland
1627 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 1:16:29 PM
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I feel no sympathy whatsoever towards this pair either! Given that the law has heard their side of things and made their ruling not to mention that the RSPCA has been involved - who lets face it don't jump in unless there is a major problem - I can't see why so many on here feel sorry for them.
The Mental Health problem card has been played yet again, strange how that seems to happen when those who have been caught out in poor management of their animals always resort to this!
There is no excuse for poor animal management, especially from someone who has written books on the subject.....END OF! If you can't care for them, don't have them. |
The Soul would have no Rainbow....If the Eyes had shed no Tears. |
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rosie
Platinum Member
England
3662 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 1:22:33 PM
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At the end of the day 3 horses were pts and 1 is still in the hands of the RSPCA - I sincerely hope he stays there, where I KNOW he is in the best of care.
They have been found GUILTY - end of story.
I find it sooooo sad for the horses, that Lesley and Brian didn't have the courage to ask for help - help IS out there if you ask.
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Last picture courtesy of Sweet Photography |
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jackiedo
Gold Member
England
1370 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 3:01:44 PM
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Does anyone know how Zareeba and Kruger are? Zareeba is Zarellos full brother.
I too am shocked about this case, but I can not believe the number of qualified psychiatrists we have on this site who are confident enough to dismiss mental ill health NOT AS AN EXCUSE - but as an explanation.
As the wife of a lovely man who has an enduring mental illness, I would rather him not have one, thanks very much, but I can assure you, that it is so very possible that this couple have been suffering from delusions and believing that they were really offering the best care to their horses and could cure the Laminitis themselves that way.
Don't say it can't happen. I know it can, but if they had any rational real friends who were visitors, they could have stepped in before it got so bad. |
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Tzarina
Platinum Member
England
1997 Posts |
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cmj
Silver Member
France
383 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 3:21:08 PM
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Peer pressure is important.
If we all say "oh, what a shame, they were depressed.....fill in the blanks"
or, other possible examples that could be used in other situations:
"oh the poor people had hoarder's syndrome.....that's why those dogs were in cages in that filthy house"
"that poor lad has aggression control difficulties...he can't help striking out at his dog/kid/mother"
"poor guy is a sociopath, how was he supposed to know not to torture and kill little girls?"
you get my drift
then we blur the edges between right and wrong. If you are so "ill" DON'T impose it on innocent victims such as animals and children. |
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pat day
Moderator
United Kingdom
5324 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 3:46:51 PM
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No one should be afraid to ask for suggestions of helpful advice, should they unfortunately find themselves in a situation, that prevents their horses/animals from being cared for properly.
As long as 'the truth' is told, and sometimes, even when not, Arabian liners have gone to great lengths to help, and even give, to ease another's worry/burden.
Lets all strive to do our best for the sake of the innocents = in this case the horses, and IF mental illness is an issue, the folk get help, and also allow the other horse to be placed safely. |
       
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~TREASURES AT TEMPLEWOOD~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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jackiedo
Gold Member
England
1370 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 4:03:52 PM
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CMJ I do get your drift.
there have been a few instances lately on this board where we have been able to discuss topics, remarkable and Heroic successes, and tragic instances of neglect from deliberate cruelty, delusions and ignorance. By looking at the reasons behind this, and discussing them openly, and listening to others and learning how things go well, and how they horribly go wrong we can be more aware of situations, and feel that we have a common strength and go forward towards assisting when needed, and recognising problems early, before they become overwhelming. Mental health issues do not excuse anything, but they explain a lot.
YES, OF COURSE THIS IS HORRIBLE, no one is saying it isn't, but where were the network of friends and supporters who surely had retained a judicial capacity even when it must have been clear that this family were unable to think clearly. I will be honest here. I had a little JRT rescue dog who I adored. She had been subjected to the most horrible neglect and cruelty, yet she just forgave humans and learned to trust. Eventually she developed bladder cancer. she was old, I knew that there was no hope. I kept her FAR too long I should have spared her the last 2 months of her life in pain. That still haunts me. I just did not see at the time that it was time to let go, despite my vets advice, it was only afterwards I realised that my actions in trying everything possible were for me and not in her best interest. |
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