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Kazzy
Platinum Member
England
3335 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Sep 2012 : 1:54:50 PM
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Well said Eeyore and cmj and also Pheonixbukra. How people can defend this is unreal!!!
Help would have been there if she had only asked but she chose not to and that is sad that the poor horses are no longer here and suffered becuase of it.
If she can write a book on how to look after horses and put it down on paper then she knew right from wrong and to go there and look at her horses suffering makes the whole episode even worse.
Janet
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Sunny Cheshire |
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phoenixbruka
Gold Member
England
1190 Posts |
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RUTHIE
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1238 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2012 : 6:28:38 PM
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Thank you for your support and the PM's. I will just say, those that sit in front of their laptops playing god....we still do NOT know the full story. Iam not denying the plight of the horses, but some of you have the scent of blood in your nostrils and this was never a witch hunt. We all can have difficulties in our lives...those that cast the first stone....... |
     
In Memory of Crystal Flash 2010-2012 |
Edited by - RUTHIE on 05 Sep 2012 6:29:18 PM |
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george
Gold Member
Wales
1353 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2012 : 7:44:07 PM
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 I was going to get that book at one point but certainly won't be doing so now, what an awful thing to do to your horses....shame on you Lesley |
George xxx
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Vik1
Platinum Member
1711 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2012 : 7:55:20 PM
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what I would like to know is, she is a knowledgeable person so Im sure she also has knowledgeable friends. Did they turn a blind eye? or did they say 'listen chick, we're friends and we love you but get your finger out cos this aint acceptable'?
Surely they must of had visitors who'd of seen the horses because it didnt just happen overnight. Perhaps if they had been confronted it would not of got to the stage it did and might of made them think 'oh'. |
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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 2:20:56 PM
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I am sorry but I cannot accept someone's mental state be excusable for this sort of behaviour. You have a duty to your animals/children....how about women who suffer terribly from post natal depression....they battle on as they have their family to look after.
This is not a witch hunt but to try and understand the suffering and the eventual deaths of these poor horses is beyond my comprehension. Sorry LS but personally I'd be hanging my head in shame not on here typing the truth will out. Yes it will - there are photographs !! |
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alison
Platinum Member
Wales
1810 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 3:26:36 PM
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Delyth what a sensible and true reply, we have all the facts and the court judgement and transcript, there is no where to hide. I think everyone has been honest in their replies and find if offensive to suggest that (quote)
"I will just say, those that sit in front of their laptops playing god....we still do NOT know the full story. Iam not denying the plight of the horses, but some of you have the scent of blood in your nostrils and this was never a witch hunt"
We are all concerned we have all helped rescue horses over the years and on a few occasions we have been taken in by 'so called rescue people' Paris rescue on here over a year ago is a point of fact, a lot of us helped then backed off when different stories came out. Only to learn the poor horse had to be rescued again thankfully by a great organisation.
It's offensive to say this is a 'Witch Hunt' it is not we have watched the court case and the sad and pathetic excuses. We should not stay silent it is our voices that speak for creatures that cannot speak for themselves.
Alison |
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Eeyore
Gold Member
1181 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 4:12:58 PM
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We should not stay silent it is our voices that speak for creatures that cannot speak for themselves.
Well said Alison |
Heléna
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Kazzy
Platinum Member
England
3335 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 4:19:12 PM
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Well said Alison, absolutely well said.
Nobody is driving a witchhunt the facts are there for all too see!
It was neglect, pure and simple in mine and many other peoples eyes.
Janet
Post edited to comply with forum rules |
Sunny Cheshire |
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Eeyore
Gold Member
1181 Posts |
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basbob
Gold Member
France
1356 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 4:29:41 PM
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It's not a witch hunt. They have been tried and found guilty and surely all of the facts came up in court, which then led to a guilty verdict.
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Kazzy
Platinum Member
England
3335 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 4:38:39 PM
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Ooops I have been edited aswell!!
RIP poor horses run free no more suffering.
Janet |
Sunny Cheshire |
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Pop
Platinum Member
England
3051 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 5:04:59 PM
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For someone who has, as I understand it, shown much love and care for the Arab Horse, I cannot simply presume there was wilful neglect. This thread began with disbelief that the people in question could or would do such a thing
I would like to understand why someone who obviously loved Arabs and got to know so much about them would let circumstances such as this to develop.
The court seems to find that more information is needed to determine what may have been the cause, so if the court was unable to issue a sentence, how can we be so quick to do it.
No one condones neglect, but isn't there a need to understand how this could have happened? What caused someone with the knowledge and love for Arabian horses, to become guilty of causing suffering to these beautiful horses.
Why are we not ready to wait to see if further relevant issues (mental health) are found by the court?
Why do we need to be harsher than the court? Both the court and the member's attitude and past lead me to think there was no malice.
I prefer to think something led otherwise caring and loving owners down a path they would probably not condone themselves: and I wish we could see this forum as a place where people could come for help, without fear, because if we have the horse's interests at heart, we should do what we can to save any horse in need, and their owners; especially as no one is free of a bad thing happening in their lives.
The easiest thing here is to criticize. I want to see past that easy step and would like to know why such a knowledgeable owner got to this point; maybe like that we call can learn lessons that will allow us to help other owners in need; maybe we'll not scare them away from places like this, when they need help.
I honestly have no direct knowledge if Mental health is a reason, enough to be an excuse; but I bow to your superior knowledge on that issue; and that of the Courts.
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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 5:07:20 PM
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| Interesting link Helena.....snowdrops and a book dedication. Nothing like getting your priorities wrong !!!! |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 5:57:35 PM
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| Well said Pop. |
  Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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sab2
Platinum Member
8467 Posts |
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RUTHIE
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1238 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 6:25:41 PM
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| Hurray Pop, my point exactly.....there is a bigger picture here and this neglect was not on purpose. Are these people two very vulnerable adults? Something has gone terribly wrong in their lives. Maybe not a witch hunt...perhaps the ducking stool next. Sorry that was really facetious, but open your eyes. Where is your compassion? I wouldn't bring my problems onto this site after what I have witnessed. No....the shame is on YOU for listening to the press gossip. |
In Memory of Crystal Flash 2010-2012 |
Edited by - RUTHIE on 06 Sep 2012 6:27:32 PM |
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Kash
Platinum Member
England
3777 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 7:05:36 PM
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Sorry, I've been sat on my hands about this one, but Ruthie - where is your compassion for the horses?!
This is no witch hunt - these people have been found guilty by a jury - are you now doubting our legal system? |
      
Photographs by Emma Maxwell and Peter Grant |
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basbob
Gold Member
France
1356 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 7:06:13 PM
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They were given a verdict of guilty........ mental condition follows..... same with any person guilty of neglect to man or beast, let's look at the reason. Mental illness is horrific, but so is neglect, however mental illness always crops up first....
This is a forum and by definition it is a place of debate where different opinions can be aired.
People here aren't forgiving with dressage practices, and showing "issues", so why on earth be forgiving to someone who has been found guilty, by court, of neglect when looking after a horse is a subject we all know about. These people have friends who could have helped them while it was -20 and they had flu. They could have employed help through that period but they didn't.
Someone must have been concerned enough to have called in the authorities as they don't tend to turn up o their own......
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RUTHIE
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1238 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 7:32:20 PM
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Kash, of course I have compassion for the horses, what do you take me for? This isn't about the guilty verdict, but how it got there in the first place. This is the bit we all omit, conveniently. Why someone that writes high profile books on the Arabian horse with such love for the breed has fallen so low in life. A terrible sad affair for both horses and their owners.
Basbob, no one is asking for forgiveness, but about shedding light on why these horses where neglected. None of us are in a postion to judge why it happened, but it did. Lesley was found guilty....and she now has to live with that. Hopefully one day, we will know the full story. There for the grace of god go us. On that I really DO bow out of this discussion, as I have a rather lovely Crabbet ( the reason why I joined AL in the first place) requires my attention. |
In Memory of Crystal Flash 2010-2012 |
Edited by - RUTHIE on 06 Sep 2012 7:36:28 PM |
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paul_exe
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2022 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 9:01:08 PM
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What's up with you Pop?
I believe the verdict of "Guilty" speaks for itself.
No amounts of Sorry, but please buy my book on horsecare will bring those poor horses back to life, and a damned bloody poor life if was too in their hands... 18" deep in sh1t... too cold to muck out my arse... too bloody lazy, and do not give a damn symdrome more like.
Paul
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Get over yourself: You breathe, you fart, what makes you different?
Gloriously Sunny Devon |
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adja
Bronze Member
97 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 9:15:33 PM
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It seems that there is criticism flying in all directions having waded through 4 pages. But there is a common theme about helping those with Arb horses in need - whether it is temporary help with fostering horses, buddying and giving support to make necessary vets appt, supporting individuals who might have to consider horses PTS but perhaps do not feel able to face this. Perhaps something positive might come out of this, whatever your views,to generate some kind of support group. I remember this case and been mindful that people should act responsibly when they have too many horses and limited resources.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/rspca-to-act-over-gucci-horses-1282019.html
Is there a formal group or contact to help owners who struggle?
It'd be good to create something positive and generate something concrete so people struggling in the future can be open about their situation without being judged.
Just a thought |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 9:21:56 PM
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Frankly Paul I find your post offensive, why make a personal attack on Pop?
Nobody has condoned what happened to those horses, some of us have tried to understand how this sorry situation occurred.
Edited to add
A positive post Adja, I would like to think that it would be possible to work on these lines.
Edited again to add that the beginning of my post will now not make much sense, since Paul's post has been edited to comply with forum rules. |
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
Edited by - Callisto on 06 Sep 2012 9:27:11 PM |
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pinkvboots
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3290 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 9:24:31 PM
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| Mucking out a stable takes on average 20 minutes, no excuse not to do it its basic animal care, if you don't have time for whatever reason leave them in the field and do it the next day if need be, not leave it for weeks on end, they couldn't have both been suffering from mental illness! |
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adja
Bronze Member
97 Posts |
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what is happening?
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