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Kes
Platinum Member
 England
1819 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Nov 2011 : 7:33:28 PM
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Last weekend I noticed Kes was very slightly unsound in trot only on his nearhind. When I picked his feet out prior to the vet arriving on Wednesday there was a splurge of black gunk, I presumed (wrongly) that it was a burst abscess. The vet applied pressure in various areas and ruled out an abscess but was leaning towards either a bacterial infection of the frog or thrush. Only it's worse than that, the infection is right in and under his frog and the vet has already given me the worse case scenario of having x-rays to check for pedal bone damage. The vet cleaned and dressed his foot and he's now on 24hr box rest. I had the farrier the next morning and my vet had spoken to him the night before about Kes's foot. My farrier cut away a lot of frog, I then re-cleaned his foot and dressed it again. The dressings have to be changed every 2 days and the idea is to dry his foot right out to kill any bacteria or thrush. His field is dry and I pick his feet out regularly but not daily, I always remove mud though and dry his feet/lower leg.
Can anyone suggest 1) a good foot disinfectant to apply regularly to stop this happening again 2) any good products to dry his frog out.
Fingers crossed he doesn't have any damage to his pedal bone, thanks everyone, Carole.
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Carole & Kes, West Sussex. |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2011 : 7:44:25 PM
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| I can recommend the Life Data hoof disinfectant--they are the people who make Farriers Formula. I had great success with it on a rescue pony with really bad thrush some years ago. |
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Pasch
Platinum Member
2277 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2011 : 7:55:33 PM
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| No recommendations but hope you solve this quickly without extra damage |
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Kes
Platinum Member
England
1819 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2011 : 8:05:46 PM
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Thank you for advice so far and kind thoughts. I think I have caught it quick enough, the vet did say to me that he really was painting the absolute worse possible scenario. Kes is completely sound just walking about the yard, and when he was being shod yesterday morning he was quite happy to weight-bear on his baddy foot. He didn't even flinch when the farrier started cutting off great strips of frog. On the whole Kes has got very good feet. They are a good shape, in very good condition and the soles and frogs have always been healthy. I can't figure out why he has got this, I just need to get on top of it quickly and prevent it from happening again in future.
Thanks guys. |
Carole & Kes, West Sussex. |
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Goldenmane
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4964 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2011 : 8:21:25 PM
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| Sounds like you've done the best thing, vet and farrier working together, and good advice from Arabianliners! X |
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zebedeedeb
Gold Member
England
516 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2011 : 8:57:59 PM
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| hi ya i have recently changed farriers and my new one cut alot of frog back as he could smell something nasty in tosca's foot, yup she had thrush too,he told me to soak the feet one at a time in good old epsom salts, a nice strong warm solution, and came back a week later and hey ho its gone,, he advised me if possible to do it once a week, to help in the winter, she is out 24/7 and had the same farrier since she was a yearling, so dont know why he didnt notice it,new farrier is so on the ball and does a beautiful and balanced trim, all my 3 are barefoot. we put our trust in our farrier hands but it seems some are just not up to the job,,deb |
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Cinnypony
Gold Member
1160 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2011 : 9:31:52 PM
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Last winter we fought thrush with spraying out with salty water and then when clean spraying with schol athletes foot spray.
However as This is time consuming and difficult in the dark and wet and have gone from 1 horse to 3 - so we are trying Red Horse - Field Paste as I have friends who swear by it and my hoof trimmer recommended it - so will report back later in the winter
Good luck with beating it |
    
Cinnabar Moth --------------- -----------CF Matilda ----Red House Gaia
Susi
https://www.facebook.com/CinnabarEndurance/ |
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Etoile
Silver Member
275 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2011 : 10:03:02 PM
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| Solution 4 feet, brilliant stuff, just paint it on once a day if they're very bad and then for maintenance once or twice a week when it's muddy. |
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Kes
Platinum Member
England
1819 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2011 : 10:21:38 PM
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| Thank you all. I am at the moment soaking his foot in hibi solution but I have to dry it thoroughly before packing with cotton wool, a knit dressing and then loads of gaffer tape. He is due a dressing change in the morning so fingers crossed. |
Carole & Kes, West Sussex. |
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jobo
Bronze Member
129 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2011 : 10:37:37 PM
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Hello, i have just had to deal with this myself as over here in ireland at the moment it is the wetist it has been for 3 years,im starting to go mad now actually to be honest but as you can imagine its very boggy,we cant put them out in the feilds as there flooded at the moment hoping for cold dry weather so they can go out for a run atleast,anyway back to your feet problem; well one of the oldest tricks in the book is stochholm tar thats for after the infection has dried up it works to keep out the wet but dont paint the whole frog leave a patch so it can breath as it has to,i paint there heels with it too as a barrier with the old hoof oil brush quite messy yes but it does the job. But first to dry out the foot i used hydrogen peroxide 5% with a suringe as you can get it into the difficult places easy that way water down just a touch then suck it up and apply,also a good spray is "purple spray" or genition violet as its propperly known.Used in the first world war against "trench foot" fungus infection from the trenches used over the years and does wonders for many things,again messy and you also end up becomming purple aswell if they give ya a shove  . Sometimes the old cures are the best and most simple and dont cost the earth,well good luck its a real pain these things,speedy recovery |
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BeckyBoodle
Gold Member
Australia
795 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2011 : 11:34:55 PM
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I used to spray Eba's feet with dilute Milton solution but living out 24/7 particularly when it was wet needed something more on occasions. The Red Horse field paste was fab. Totally recommend it.
B |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2011 : 12:33:51 AM
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I used to apply diluted hydrogen peroxide when one of mine had this problem - I used a large (needleless) syringe to get it into all the fissures - worked well for us. Then to keep it clean and dry used a newborn baby disposable nappy and duct tape to reenforce the outer/keep it in place - you can get really quick at applying them - good luck and hope you get it sorted quickly.
ETA You could give it a good coating of atheletes foot powder before applying the dressing to help clear it up
Oh and if he's being turned out then add a sturdy plastic bag over the nappy before the duct tape to keep it all dry. |
  Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
Edited by - Callisto on 19 Nov 2011 12:37:39 AM |
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Stormy
New Member
14 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2011 : 01:35:02 AM
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| You might find the plastic bag will make the foot sweat and smell terrible - i find duct / gaffer tape does same! Personally use i co-hesive bandages and they do some great hoof boots now that i found worked wonders when i needed to poultice my mares foot but she wouldn't be stabled so she was out 24/7. Oh and the hydrogen peroxide / gentian violet idea is an old remedy but works absolute wonders for thrush! |
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Nashiba
Bronze Member
235 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2011 : 08:13:27 AM
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Our old stallion suffers quite badly with thrush too-real smelly feet!!
Hydrogen peroxide for us too-works a treat. |
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shah
Gold Member
England
1356 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2011 : 08:37:11 AM
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Hydrogen peroxide hurts them so I personally would never use it. I've tried Stockholm tar, Milton, solutions4feet and others, none worked. The best for me was the Pioneer herbal clean and paste. Wash and apply every day to start with, then as the thrush disappears you need to do less.
Daily salt water rinse and athletes foot spray are also good if the thrush is minor.
Cleantrax is also very good but a bit of a kerfuffle to do as arabs tend to think of the blue boots as monsters... |
West Sussex |
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LIV
Gold Member
England
705 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2011 : 09:24:29 AM
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| I'm using Swan Anti-bac for a similar problem. My farrier recommended it so will see what he thinks when he removes the shoes next week. |
     
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Kes
Platinum Member
England
1819 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2011 : 09:29:35 AM
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| Thank you everyone, am doing a dressing change today so should see/smell how it going. My biggest downfall so far is possibly using a little too much gaffer tape - how do you get it off!!! |
Carole & Kes, West Sussex. |
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loosefur
Gold Member
584 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2011 : 09:44:44 AM
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Apple cider vinegar is also good to kill off bacteria but you don't just want to be treating the symptoms you need to look at the cause too. The bacteria/infection that we know as thrush can only infect an already weakened frog. A healthy frog doesn't get thrush. Causes for a weak frog are lack of blood supply/circulation and inflammation of the corium that feeds the frog. Two things then - you need to increase the blood supply to the frog which comes from movement/exercise. Unfortunately for a good proportion of shod horses the frog is held off the ground so gets so pumping/stimulation and therefore gets atrophied which leaves it vulernable to infection. Also connected to this time of year horses get less turn out and exercise so the frog/foot gets less movement and therefore less circulation. If shod the farrier needs to ensure that the frog touches the floor. Secondly the inflammation of the corium which is usually diet related, as in too much sugar/starch in the diet. Thrush thrives in wet, mild conditions for two reasons. The first is that wet mild conditions usually mean lush, sweet grass. The same conditions are also the perfect breeding ground for the bacteria which attack the frogs. Double whammy. Alternatively this time of year horses are brough in to stand in stables, on bedding that they poo and wee on - again perfect breeding ground for bacteria whilst at the same time tend to have their feed rations upped... all those molassed feeds and also as they are stabled for longer periods they get given those blocks of almost pure sugar to eat... otherwise known as horse licks!
So to prevent thrush ensure the horse has a low sugar/starch diet and plenty of exercise. If thrush does occur then treat with one of the topical treatments (though I would never use hyrogen peroxide as it will kill off healthy tissue as well as damaged tissue).
I would also be slightly wary of keeping a dressing on for extended periods. Bacteria thrive in warm, humid, oxygen deprived environments - which is why the vet/farrier cut away a lot of frog. But if you then just cover it over with dressing/bandage then you are recreating the same enironment! Damaged tissue needs oxygen to heal but you do need to keep it dry and clean if you can. Difficult! but I am sure your vet will get that dressing off as soon as he can |
Edited by - loosefur on 19 Nov 2011 09:51:18 AM |
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Judith S
Platinum Member
Wales
15686 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2011 : 10:59:51 AM
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We were talking to our farrier about this recently and he says he only sees thrush on shod horses because the frog action is compromised as loosefur states above, we have never seen it on any of ours - but they are all barefoot.
I would also query keeping dressings on as they provide the ideal damp environment for bacteria to thrive.
If possible get the shoes off and give the frog a chance to work properly. Can you turnout onto a yard? |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2011 : 11:26:10 AM
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The reason I used babies nappies is because they are designed to wick moisture away from babies' bottoms, so they should wick moisture away from the sole (unless of course moisture gets in from the outside - hence the plastic bag). I am not aware that horses' hooves sweat (quite happy to be told they do if somebody knows different  ), so the nappy should 'dry' the sole rather make it moist. I am assuming that wearing dressings is only for the short term? |
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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Eeyore
Gold Member
1181 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2011 : 11:44:32 AM
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Thankfully this is something I've never had to deal with (touching wood frantically as I say that, don't want to tempt fate!).
I'm using something called Silverfeet on my horses hooves at the moment, google it and see what you think. I think it's brilliant stuff.
Keratex hoof and leg scrub has also helped me get rid of mud fever, it contains byotrol (think that's how you spell it) which is a new concept in killing bacteria. You can use it on their hooves as well.
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Heléna
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Gerri
Platinum Member
England
4211 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2011 : 5:38:04 PM
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| I always used to use 10 percent peroxide to bathe the area and it always worked a tip from an elserly man many years ago |
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Stormy
New Member
14 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2011 : 6:22:22 PM
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| Sorry Callisto by sweat i actually meant a kind of condensation from the warmth that builds up from the hoof area, particularly when infection present when covered in plastic - increased humidity in the hoof area causing increased dampness! Sorry wrong choice of words! it was late when i wrote last post! |
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Kes
Platinum Member
England
1819 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2011 : 6:36:46 PM
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Ok, lots more advice but does leave me in a quandary with what to do. I did a dressing change this morning and although the dressing felt slightly damp to me there was no gunk and the smell is far healthier. As I trained to be a veterinary pathologist specialising in bacteriology I have a very good nose for anything bad. Obviously thrush is fungal but bacteria is different, there are strains of bacteria that not only don't need oxygen (anaerobes) but thrive in an oxygen reduced environment. Makes it very difficult to know what to next.
Prior to Kes getting this infection he was on 24hr turnout and his diet is low in sugars and starches.
When I went back down late this afternoon he looked very miffed being stuck in so thought we would have a wander about on the 12ft line...........several piaffes later we returned, that horse in NOT lame!!! |
Carole & Kes, West Sussex. |
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Judith S
Platinum Member
Wales
15686 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2011 : 8:19:36 PM
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| There seems to be conflicting opinion as to whether thrush is bacterial or fungal, but the main thing seems to be that it is anaerobic so oxygen is it's worst enemy. It would therefore seem counter-productive to seal the hoof in a plastic bag and deprive it of oxygen. |
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jo78
Silver Member
499 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2011 : 9:12:29 PM
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My boy too suffers from thrush, only in one foot! My farrier told me (as i was using hydrogen peroxide) that this only cleans it and doesnt fight the infection. He told me to clean it with a diluted Detol solution, then spray with Iodine, seems to have worked a treat. Dont envy you as this seems to be once they have had it they will more than likely suffer with it again x
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J.Ellis |
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Topic |
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Foot thrush advice please/drying out the frog.
