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Pashon2001
Platinum Member
3575 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Oct 2011 : 9:25:28 PM
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Whats the point of saying anything against you?? Whoever did would be shot down. Not listened to. Horses can be shown in this style without the fear, but according to you all nearly all handlers are cruel. And owners uncaring. All for a ribbon. I don't believe this is true.
I shall continue to have my horses shown by caring handlers, they will not be punished or my horses not shown because of tarring.
And this tirade continues every year..................
Next year I expect to see much the same thread after each major show. |
     
www.jarvastud.com http://hocon.webs.com/ |
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dragonfarmgirl
Junior Member
England
47 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2011 : 9:33:03 PM
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Pashon - No one is saying that nearly all handlers are cruel and obviously alot of owners really love their horses BUT are you saying that because it isn't 'all owners and handlers' that we should turn a blind eye to the bad ones and leave such cruelty unchallenged ??????
Surely it should be challenged again and again and again until someone listens and things change, even if it take years ? |
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Silver
Silver Member
279 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2011 : 9:39:24 PM
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| Pashon2001 you can only vouch for yourself not anybody else.Things do happen behind closed doors. |
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debs
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2011 : 10:04:08 PM
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I would rather see showing banned than this abuse happening.
I can appreciate that not all handlers are like this or that owners condone this but really can anyone justify this behaviour? And in my opinion if you can then I am sorry for your horses.
I am ashamed to show these videos to any of my animal/horse loving friends... |
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Pasch
Platinum Member
2277 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2011 : 10:08:26 PM
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| I'm with Emma about sending the video to the animal rights groups.Glad to see most of you are shocked by this,I wrote about it in another thread but here's the evidence...Pashon,nobody ever said EVERYBODY does this,no need to defend yourself,but the fact that MANY are and,especially,the fact that those who are do it in front of judges,public without being punished is shocking and should stop.Or do you like to show your horses in the same show as these people?Because as you say your horses are shown without abuse,you should be the first to be outraged on seeing this,and the first to fight against it! |
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phoenixbruka
Gold Member
England
1190 Posts |
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phoenixbruka
Gold Member
England
1190 Posts |
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kcv1223
Gold Member
England
651 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2011 : 11:18:03 PM
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OK my only post on this subject as I have some very strong views.
A - I was there
B - Mary Lang is included in the video doing nothing but holding a rearing colt. He landed, stood, and never hit the end of the line
C - A handler I have used is in the video. Do I regret sending my baby to him 3 years in a row - NO. Would I send her again - YES.
IMO the blame lays with the owner & the judges - the way I see it is simple but probably not palatible. If the owner tells the handler, Win at all costs they will. They are employees doing what is required. It doesn't make it right. It's just the way it is. The owners of the horses on the video are without exception hugely rich influential people whose very pride is at stake (forget ribbons that isn't the issue). They are not people like you and I who rode as children and fell in love with the arabian horse and it's flying mane and tail. They are States-Men plain and simple... The blame is with the judges and lays at the "stand-up" door. As long as the arabian horse is being given type marks based on a terrified freeze by "our" judges things will never change.
Don't get me wrong - I love to see an arab trot and I mean TROT! I don't want to go back to the days of showing them like hacks either - I LOVE movement and my foals learn to show off to a rattle at weeks old (FOR FUN before I'm killed online  ) which they happily do naturally. However, what I never see them do in the field that young is stand with their frightened little eyes standing out of their heads and pooing with fear poking their heads in and out like turtles....
Ban the frozen pose and place higher marks on movement. I have no problem with noise on the outside of the ring because if the horse doesn't enjoy it, it ruins its movement marks anyway!
Just my (sorry, very long) opinion but it's been brewing a long time!
Karen x |
www.alkaraarabians.co.uk |
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Suelin
Platinum Member
England
2514 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2011 : 11:19:10 PM
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"Horses can be shown in this style without the fear" Posted by Pashon 2001
There is nothing that remotely resembles style in that video. It is indefensible cruelty. Those horses are not being "shown" they are being chased about and beaten up. It is nothing short of APPALLING!!!!! |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2011 : 11:31:24 PM
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Speaking as a DC, yes there ARE those amongst us who will stand up for the horses. Please do not think we are all supine puppets who do nothing. It is not an easy job - and you do have to cope with some very unpleasant people. BUT WE DO CARE.
Keren |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2011 : 11:37:28 PM
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Speaking now as a private individual and AHS life member, my suggestions are:
1. Write to ECAHO. Use this video as your evidence and list the number of every offending handler, with the time in on the video to 'fix' the incident, and state what is being done and how much you deplore what is shown. ECAHO needs to be DROWNED in letters to make an impact.
2. Write to the AHS, doing the same thing, and demand that, if British handlers and owners are involved, that there be a public inquiry. Point out that such activity on an international stage brings the British Arabian horse and its community into serious disrepute.
3. Ask the AHS why red and yellow cards are not being used in this country.
Keren |
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Vera
Membership Moderator
United Kingdom
8652 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2011 : 11:49:31 PM
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I am very sad to say this but you don't really think anything will be done do you? With the kind of wealth that is behind these horses there are handlers willing to do just about anything to get the results - I stress NOT all handlers. I can't imagine many judges having the balls to not place these people when quite simply most of the time they have the best horses with the highest price tags.
I am so fed up with it all, we are all appalled by it, we all moan and grown about it but at the end of the day we are nobody's. Those that do stand up are soon ..... squashed in one way or another. Look at what happened with a certain dutch handler who spoke up. I'm very happy that he is back with a vengance! Meant in the nicest way possible.
Let us not forget that without these people, who provide vast sums of sponsorship, a lot of shows would have folded by now.....
Edited to add that by the 'I am so fed up with it all' comment, I meant the lack of action or improvement on the situation - not our moaning about it. |
    
Hampshire |
Edited by - Vera on 05 Oct 2011 12:01:34 AM |
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Avonbrook
Silver Member
287 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 07:42:03 AM
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The only reason it will change is if the status quo is no longer to the advantage of these people to be involved with an activity which is seen to be as tainted and grubby as it actually is.
That is why I am pleased to see the coverage outside of the arabian world. As I have posted elsewhere, the more a light is shone on what happens for all to see and form their opinions on the better for the horses.
It won't be quick and it won't - unless things really do reach a critical mass - happen this time. But ultimately if doing what they are doing becomes devalued financially... they will stop. Not for the horses but because it is in their own deeply selfish financial reasons to do so.
Rowena |
  
www.avonbrookstud.co.uk |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
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Suelin
Platinum Member
England
2514 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 08:59:45 AM
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| If indeed showing is only about the price tag etc then what is the actual point of shows anyway? If you know that you are going to win because you are the wealthiest person there then surely there is no point to it all? Might as well all stop at home surely? |
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Honeyb060674
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4301 Posts |
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pinkvboots
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3290 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 09:50:41 AM
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KCV1223 You say that owners and judges are to be blamed yet you have just admitted using one of those handlers shown on the video, so surely you are one of those owners to be blamed with what is going on!!.
Like I said in an earlier post if people didn't pay for this kind of handler they would be out of business.
And to add insult to injury you also say you would use them again
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 10:12:24 AM
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"One questions the point of these shows if the judges only place the horses with the highest price tag and the wealthiest owner."
"If indeed showing is only about the price tag etc then what is the actual point of shows anyway? If you know that you are going to win because you are the wealthiest person there then surely there is no point to it all? Might as well all stop at home surely?"
Sorry, but that just isn't true. They are the best horses; if you or I owned that horse and showed it to best advantage in superb condition it would win. Yes, the wealthiest owners own the horses with the highest price tags and the reason for the highest price tag is the quality of the horse. We are complaining about the abuse so please stop implying that judges are being influenced by the wealth and staus of the owners. Most judges are hard working and fair and I would think most also deplore the abuse. No judge ( or maybe only a very rare one) is going to place a horse just because of the owner.
Barbara |
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Quarabian
Platinum Member
Wales
4340 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 10:44:14 AM
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| Showing is the shop window for breeding and selling. That is why it is so important for some owners to win at any cost. Personally I am able to judge for myself which stallions I might use, not necessarily based on their show record. As temperament is so important in any animal, I would worry about using any of the stallions shown in the video. They may have wonderful temperaments, but how can you tell with the way they are behaving in the ring? |
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kcv1223
Gold Member
England
651 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 11:27:28 AM
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Pinkyboots - read carefully before judging...
I SAID "If the owner tells the handler, Win at all costs they will. They are employees doing what is required."
I NEVER told my handler to win at all costs - nuff said! |
www.alkaraarabians.co.uk |
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C_Ma
Bronze Member
Denmark
51 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 11:51:42 AM
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Meh I had to laugh a bit when I saw another video coming up on facebook
http://www.vimeo.com/30065087
Apparently these ppl think that, it's alright to be cruel to the horse, as long as it gets a pat on the neck at the end eh... because that will sure make up for all the shanking oh dear... |
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Nashiba
Bronze Member
235 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 12:42:39 PM
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Not often I disagree with any of your posts Barbara but I'm sorry if you or I had any of these horses be they the best or otherwise -we would not win.(I mean showing them)
Money speaks volumes and faces win shows.
Fact.
Which is why this will go on even with support from handlers like Emma. |
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mair
Bronze Member
Wales
152 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 12:56:35 PM
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An Arabian Horse, better to be born on the plain side than Beautiful, That way your fate is not sealed, a object to be beaten to massage a rich owners ego,
Mair |
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debs
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 1:03:23 PM
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Just seen the other vid...
Oh well thats all right then, those pats more than make up for the abuse!
I think not. |
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Livestream Aachen
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
