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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Sep 2011 : 6:01:25 PM
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| Technically and there is a fine dividing line I know - the horse is actually afraid of the whip not the handler. Hence when Emma explained the guidelines of the initial introduction of the yellow/red card system the handlers complained that the horses reacted to the whip and the handling by the previous 'cruel' handler thus putting up obstacles in it's working. |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2011 : 6:04:41 PM
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I wish I had a pound for everytime this subject has been discussed over the years  , we have NEVER got anywhere, having once written about what I saw a handler doing in the Arabian link, I was threatened ! very scarey when handlers have SO much money behind them from wealthy owners! services can be bought, if you get my drift?
THIS needs more than talk and discussion it needs addressing by the WAHO and ECAHO and then enforcing BY them. why not all write letters and send videos before the next meetings ?
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www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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Sahir
Gold Member
England
847 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2011 : 6:06:09 PM
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Van Gogh - beautiful colt - well deserved winner - shame about the handler !!! 
The above was my comment at 10.30 a.m watching the yearling colts on the Aachen Livestream - and the abuse got worse as the day went on, absolutely sickening. The AHS are running training seminars in early November in Banbury Oxon for DC's & Stewards - anyone here on AL going to take part? Perhaps now so many of us are 'fired-up' about the abuse it might raise a lot of interest!
Elaine (should add my comment was made on FB) |
Edited by - Sahir on 28 Sep 2011 6:07:16 PM |
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RUTHIE
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1238 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2011 : 6:30:10 PM
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So what all you folks are saying that meek and mild Flash and I will never be successful in showing because we will never 'conform' to how the judges expect us to show? Meaning, that I will show him in a natural way and he will respond to me and I to him because we have rapport and a trust with each other. No whips, silly posing or him terrified of what I might do next to him. Iam saddend to read what happens to show horses.....endurance and dressage here we come |
     
In Memory of Crystal Flash 2010-2012 |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2011 : 6:54:22 PM
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Sorry...But whips have no place in the showring and should be banned!!!! Other breed society shows hold stallion classes.......Do we see their handlers in the collecting arenas or showrings carrying whips? Showing canes yes!!!....And maybe a slightly longer and stouter cane in stallion classes!!
What we see in the arabian classes are.... Quite frankly, cut off lunge whips, and almost five foot in length with the added attachment....Are our arabian stallions so vicious as to need great long whips to be carried at all times...Perchance one gets loose....
Lets get the showrings back to the former, when dedicated breeders produced and showed their own stock......Before all the mega bucks and fashion icons came to the fore, owners caring not for the poor horse, closing their eyes to the obvious abuse, in their quest to win at all cost!!
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2011 : 7:03:00 PM
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I like the idea of dropping the whip for the stand up, very much !!
I remember Rumak getting loose at the Nationals and believe me I'd have wanted a bloody great whip, that was frightening !!! I thought there was a limit to the length of whip - has that been lifted. I remember DC's chopping off ends of whips :)
And no Ruthie you really should go showing and produce your horse. So if a judge tells you 'if you had posed your horse you'd have won' just shrug your shoulders and say hey ho !! I prefer blue ;) |
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RUTHIE
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1238 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2011 : 7:06:55 PM
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| lol thanks Delyth! |
In Memory of Crystal Flash 2010-2012 |
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Nashiba
Bronze Member
235 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2011 : 7:55:41 PM
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Totally agree Babs.Why do we need these long long whips even if by chance a stallion gets loose.What good is a whip if he is loose anyway?
Ban them altogether!!!A cane should suffice.
As I have said a long time ago showing a horse is not exactly rocket science but "money" as in all things has taken over what used to be an enjoyable pastime."Show Trainers" have flourished after a couple of months apprenticeships at such and such a stud and the ambitious owners society keep them in business. |
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jaybird
Gold Member
France
1192 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2011 : 8:06:57 PM
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Hi
Basbob..I know alot owners do know more than what they care to admit to..!! out of sight..!! but because they pay for what they think is top class producing 'it cannot possible happen to my horse'
I bet a few I know are cringing right now for what they failed to question more closely at in the past...not their fault entirely..!! just ignorance..This should not be happening now..!! more publicity..naming & shaming...
Beryl |
Edited by - jaybird on 28 Sep 2011 8:10:39 PM |
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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2011 : 8:49:13 PM
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| If you are in a line up and there is a stallion loose, the whip is to protect you and your horse from being attacked. |
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george
Gold Member
Wales
1353 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2011 : 11:42:13 PM
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Well, I think more owners should show their own horses!! I know not everyone can run fast ect, but if you have no medical reasons not to "try it yourself" then nothing could be more rewarding than actually showing your own horses. I consider myself to be a complete novice in the world of showing but the little I have done has been amazing and I know I won't be up there with the professionals but I am having fun trying,isn't that how it should be? I mean "enjoyment" the more loving owners taking their horses into the big shows, the more we can show how "we" as the owner and protector of our horses "want" them to be shown. If you can't possibly show yourself then it's down to the owner to try and find a handler that will give as much respect and kindness to your horse as you would yourself. Sorry if I have veered off track somehow but I think it would go a long way to helping rid us of this growing trend if we tried to do something from "INSIDE" the ring.....just a thought though, and please don't mis-interpret this is not directed at anybody  |
George xxx
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2011 : 12:34:30 AM
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It wasn't aimed in general Keren more to do with what went on at the weekend. It's sad when one of the handlers said he saw what should have been 3 yellow cards and 2 red cards in the collecting ring and yet no action taken :(
It's madness really , all for a rosette. Can you name the 4 World Champions from 2010 or even the four Towerlands Champions from 2011........crazy, all for a moments forgotten glory !!
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Edited by - Delyth on 29 Sep 2011 12:35:53 AM |
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Varaina
Gold Member
United Kingdom
606 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2011 : 09:59:18 AM
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Guys add your comments on to Eriks Facebook wall...He is trying to change things and needs everyones support in this...The voices need to be heard..!!!!
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Fiona Grant-Chivers |
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Timbercroft
Gold Member
Wales
936 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2011 : 11:06:49 AM
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Do we need whips with filly's /mares/ geldings ??? id say not
As for colts/ stallions i would agree with Delyth its not for your stallion but if one was to get loose you can at least try to keep you and your stallion safe ...
... but what if we was made to hand over our whips to the steward whilst the stand up takes place ? and then given back for OUR trot out or even once back in the line up.
Id be very happy to show without a whip as i'm sure others would but would worry in the stallion classes for the reasons above...
Lets hope this can be a step forward and something is done about what we all seem to be seeing.
Linda |
      
www.lma-arabians.co.uk |
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2011 : 1:02:41 PM
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When the whip is pointed at the horse handle first it looks like a cattle prod. |
    
blue moon |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2011 : 1:48:42 PM
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I have onbly just read this thread but it repeats all that is said every year and still it gets worse. So I make no apology for repeating my yearly remark.
THE OWNERS ARE EQUALLY, IF NOT MORE, TO BLAME FOR SENDING THEIR HORSES TO ABUSIVE HANDLERS AND NOT CARING.
As long as professional handlers are given a free rein to do whatever is necessary to win and they get a large fee when the horse gets a championship etc the abuse will continue. They have a living to make and as the owner doesn't care why should they. After all, once the horse has the ribbons the owner can happily sell it on for a nice profit and get the next horse to send away to be abused. It is a win win situation unless, of course, you are the poor abused horse but hey, who cares, there is always another one to buy, send away to be abused and make more money.
A couple of pictures of Booey; yes a small show but there is no reason why "big name" horses have to be treated so differently.
Emma, you and Premier are an inspiration to us all. There are a few other good handlers but sadly they appear to be few and far between and the young up and coming handlers generally seem to think the more they jerk and shank the better. Very sad.
If I was a bit younger I would love to be a DC; might even try anyway. I actually have a semi-blind eye but you can be sure that one would not be watching the horses and handlers!!!!
I would love to think that something will change but.......
Barbara
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jillandlomond
Platinum Member
Scotland
3586 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2011 : 3:19:43 PM
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That's a very good point Alistair, it does indeed resemble a cattle prod. I've heard from a couple of sources that electric cattle prods are used by some in hand arab trainer's Neither wonder these horses look petrified!! |
    
Borders, Scotland |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2011 : 3:53:52 PM
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Originally posted by BabsR.......So how is this to be tackled where we could make a difference? posted by Vygoda This must be started by the Governing body and Show Committe of the ARAB HORSE SOCIETY UK Let`s get our own house in order first.....ban whips, ban plastic bags, ban all the ringside screaming and hollering (APPLAUSE YES...BUT NOT UNTIL ROSETTES HAVE BEEN AWARDED) What goes on now,screaming,stamping banging, serves only to further upset already stressed horses. Ban any other outside interference,(rent a mob) once and for all!! D.C`s start having some guts and do your job PROPERLY!! There is abuse to be seen.....START ACTING ON IT Bring in the Red and Yellow cards forthwith and use them not only in the Showrings and collecting Rings, but anywhere within the boundaries of the Showground BAN THE RIDICULOUS STARGAZING FROZEN STANCE....lets have our Arabians shown in a natural and relaxed outline.....showing off their naturally elevated paces instead of the stilted action now seen in our Arabian showrings Babs www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
 Bravo Babs. I didn't watch the livestream because I knew I would find it sickening, but I've just found time to read this thread and there is such a lot of good sense and passion. Let's hope it can all be directed where it needs to be--to help the horses. I soo agree with Barbara Gregory as well---the buck stops with the owners. It is beyond me how anyone would entrust their horses to these handlers, but sadly it filters down, and it isn't only the well known successful ( and often also well known for being abusive) handlers who are abusive--a lot of people copy them--be they owner/handlers or newby handlers.I just so wish there were more copying truly great handlers like Emma Maxwell. |
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Edited by - Zan on 29 Sep 2011 4:05:24 PM |
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Silver
Silver Member
279 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2011 : 5:29:11 PM
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| How about another group of marks given out of 20 for good handling,more marks for less twirling around and for a more natural stand up,it would be very interesting to see what would happen then. |
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jaybird
Gold Member
France
1192 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2011 : 7:32:56 PM
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Hi
Delyth...what about a couple of ring stewards that are professional handlers with the whips...for the unlikely occurence of a loose stallion...?? |
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jaybird
Gold Member
France
1192 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2011 : 7:36:55 PM
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Hi
I have heard that they stand the horses in shallow water then stick the cattle prods in the water to shock it.... makes the horse stand up....nice!!! I do hope it re-visites them in the next life...xxx I'm horrid 
Beryl
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Silver
Silver Member
279 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2011 : 7:56:53 PM
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| I hope it re-visites them in this life and the next,and nothing would be to bad. |
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ambassador
Bronze Member
France
102 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2011 : 08:28:52 AM
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| Yes I have heard this has been the system many times about the stick being used to reinforce their method of the cattle prod and the standing in water no other explanation of a frozen petrified horse in fact handlers have been found using this method at Towerlands in the permanent stable block years ago, but also the holding up of two fingers by the handlers also reinforces this method too so there you go these are the culprits for all to see |
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george
Gold Member
Wales
1353 Posts |
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Livestream Aachen
