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Paresh
Gold Member
613 Posts |
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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Sep 2011 : 6:03:35 PM
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| DC means 'don't care' !! Disciplinary committee ;) |
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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2011 : 6:06:52 PM
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| Just read your post Susan. The DC's are actually situated in the collecting ring and are meant to keep an eye on this sort of behaviour together with make -up, gingering etc. The ring steward is just that and he had quite a job on his hands. |
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RUTHIE
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1238 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2011 : 6:07:28 PM
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Hello Paresh .A very kind ALiner has just PM'd me. DC means Disciplinary Committee, still can't view the link. |
     
In Memory of Crystal Flash 2010-2012 |
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Paresh
Gold Member
613 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2011 : 6:30:32 PM
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| thanks Delyth/Ruthie, that makes perfect sence. |
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Tzarina
Platinum Member
England
1997 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2011 : 6:42:49 PM
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| There is a website that has photos from Aachen both in the ring and in the collecting ring. You would have to be blind to view the pictures and not see the fear in some of those horses faces - fillies, colts, mares, stallions. |
    
Tzarinaarabians@yahoo.com
"The horse is God's gift to mankind."
"The daughter who wont lift a finger in the house is the same child who cycles madly off in the pouring rain to spend all morning mucking out a stable."
"All horses deserve to be loved by at least one little girl during their life" |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2011 : 6:51:14 PM
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......But such abuse does happen at our national show!! Have personally witnessed a professional producer running alongside, dragging a tree branch (on the outside of the arena)of a horse in the showring.
Also witnessed continual chain shanking, long whips, whizzing and twirling and the look of fear in horses` eyes.....Dont tell me they are enjoying themselves!!! Handlers....You are exhibiting the world`s most beautiful, intelligent affectionate and noble horse......Not some wild ferocious animal. There really is no need for bridle chains and beating whips and same should be banned!!
Bring in red and yellow cards say I...Perhaps then, we may once again see our arabian showrings graced with joyous horses displaying their natural presence and relaxed floating on air paces, which sadly seems also reduced to a tense knee action trot
Emma we salute you for your caring sympathetic and effective production of the charges you are entrusted with 
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
`typo` corrected |
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Edited by - BabsR on 26 Sep 2011 8:06:55 PM |
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pintoarabian
Gold Member
Scotland
1242 Posts |
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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2011 : 7:36:00 PM
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I'm not saying it doesn't happen at the Nationals not that at all. I'm just saying we have a REAL case now.....they were filmed, so damn blatant, so damn obvious. Zoe Tyzack has contacted Princess Alia so with her backing, Erik Dorssers stance and the ideas and guidance from Emma lets see if we can really do something.
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jaybird
Gold Member
France
1192 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2011 : 9:24:44 PM
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Hi all
Hopefully this starts to gather speed and for once the talking stops and the action begins...the DC's are a bloody disgrace they turn a blind eye to any 'INTERNATIONAL HIGH FLYING PRODUCER' when they enter the collecting ring...they disappear (see no evil !!..comes to mind) I have seen this (and I am sure I am not alone)..talking to a friend of ours Mother here this year who is an Arabian Breeder & Judge in the US her stories make you want to cry...she's all behind anything that can be done to stop this abuse not only of a truly beautiful breed but of any horse...is there any hope???... who knows..!! keep going Emma you are a star...Firstly there is the stupid owners society to tackle... a lost cause methinks..!!!
Beryl |
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M Robson
Silver Member
Wales
398 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2011 : 9:26:36 PM
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Thank you Emma, we feel very lucky!
We love the cards system, its very straight forward and open too.
Being asked to drop the whip, so simple but effective.
Lets hope the tides are changing for the better!!
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www.marley-arabians.co.uk |
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sab2
Platinum Member
8467 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2011 : 10:04:57 PM
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| I posted early on this thread and thought i was going to be shot down for bringing up the yanking now i know its called shanking, how lovely to see so many people who also think its wrong, i didn,t watch too much as i found it a little distressing and annoying to see these beautiful horses being abused, i agree with Barbara the movement of these horses was certainly affected by this, i noticed it more when they had to do the walk away and to the judges, in some cases they were very stinted in walk others not straight, i am sure this is not the normal relaxed walk that these horses would do when not in this stressful situation , such a shame but lets hope something can be done about this. |
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Pasch
Platinum Member
2277 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2011 : 10:41:23 PM
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When I posted about show ring abuse on another thread(video of Towerland) I was almost eaten alive!So I am glad so many people think like me.Must add the international shows I have personally been to were even worse,as public was yelling louder and stamping their feet heavily on the iron scaffoldings.Plus the loud music.In the collecting ring you had up to three people "warming"up horses with their whips.Some colts and fillies(some tiny ones who should have only been playing in a field)were SO terrified.
Emma's cards and leaving whip on floor are great ideas.Unfortunately I can't see that happening soon.There is a lot of money going on(especially horses from middle east,some stables were closed to public and watched by HUGE and threatening security in black suits and earphones) |
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stuart
Silver Member
United Kingdom
335 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2011 : 10:56:35 PM
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Pasch - many of us, myself included have retired our horses before even filling in the entry........as the prospect of what awaits us is becoming ever more grim and seedy........
Maybe that will change sooner rather than later, if not, more will be driven away or throw in the towel - if that happens...... the Emperor really will have no clothes! |
North Norfolk |
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Esther
Gold Member
United Kingdom
866 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2011 : 06:34:31 AM
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Am liking the cards idea.
As Delyth says, there's hours and hours worth of filmed evidence here, which was broadcast to the world, to show that this wasn't just a 'moment in time' or that we are 'making snap judgements from one short video' or that we 'don't understand as we weren't there' or any of the other usual excuses. Does anyone really think that these horses are showing their best like this? Please someone explain to me what I'm not seeing?
Well done to those who tried to do right by the horses they were showing. Unfortunately they were very much in the minority.
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paranoid horsemother
 
Photo on far right thanks to West End Photography
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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2011 : 07:58:54 AM
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BUT some of the ME don't want this either. A representative out there complained last year as one of the stables was gingering again. They told the DC's they just said 'we didn't see anything' !! He was livid.
If the Dc's had just stood on the rail near the stand ups and shouted at the offending handlers it would have done something. The judges would have been more aware. The spectators would have held some comfort in those actions at least. I doubt they's have been embarrassed into stopping it would have been something. What happened was nothing and it was disgusting !! |
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jaybird
Gold Member
France
1192 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2011 : 09:40:37 AM
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Hi all
I thought they tested for gingering if a complaint was received? now that's disgusting and if that had been me I would have really not shut up until it had been investigated...what's the matter with people...again I say I have seen a well known judge who was acting as a DC at a big show....look into the collecting ring at an international handler whipping the filly's legs and she turned so quick she nearly tripped herself up trying to ignore the situation...when somebody went to try and find her....gone....my faith in DC's has long since diminished....if people have horses shown by professionals...they cannot be DC's there's to much of a conflict of interest... it needs to be a body of professional people with no conections to the showing world... their only interest should be that of the horses welfare....
Beryl
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Silver
Silver Member
279 Posts |
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Vygoda
Platinum Member
United Arab Emirates
1627 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2011 : 08:42:32 AM
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I think the problem is much more serious and deep, not just about showing behaviour.
Here in the Gulf last year, some shows were persuaded to opt out of showing under ECAHO rules and owners who won at these shows now find themselves in an insidious position and have realised when opting out that they could not show at the major shows worldwide run under ECAHO rules. Yes, at these non-ECAHO shows, there were DC’s but ....... with no guts/power/wish to do anything as usually the DC’s are employed ‘locally’ elsewhere so their daily jobs might be threatened.
ECAHO seems to be facing its own problems internally so I do not know what teeth they have to enforce anything.
Then there is the problem of court cases ............. – yes, the American route.
Following on from Emma’s post about making handlers drop the whip to the ground, I have seen one judge give zero marks when the handler ignored his request.
The plastic bag syndrome is awful – one bag first day, last day 3 or 4 bags blown up like balloons with multiple grooms running around with them. At the Khalideya show in Saudi, they were banned hooray.
So how is this to be tackled where we could make a difference?
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2011 : 09:58:51 AM
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.......So how is this to be tackled where we could make a difference? posted by Vygoda
This must be started by the Governing body and Show Committe of the ARAB HORSE SOCIETY UK
Let`s get our own house in order first.....ban whips, ban plastic bags, ban all the ringside screaming and hollering (APPLAUSE YES...BUT NOT UNTIL ROSETTES HAVE BEEN AWARDED) What goes on now,screaming,stamping banging, serves only to further upset already stressed horses. Ban any other outside interference,(rent a mob) once and for all!!
D.C`s start having some guts and do your job PROPERLY!! There is abuse to be seen.....START ACTING ON IT
Bring in the Red and Yellow cards forthwith and use them not only in the Showrings and collecting Rings, but anywhere within the boundaries of the Showground
BAN THE RIDICULOUS STARGAZING FROZEN STANCE....lets have our Arabians shown in a natural and relaxed outline.....showing off their naturally elevated paces instead of the stilted action now seen in our Arabian showrings
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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Edited by - BabsR on 28 Sep 2011 10:08:28 AM |
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jaybird
Gold Member
France
1192 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2011 : 1:08:13 PM
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Ah! Ha! This could be started, a new show UK STYLE...all the frills and Tassles of the big shows but with a few alterations to the rule book of how these horses are shown..When The Merrist Wood show started it attracted alot of entries from all over so it's possible.!!! Unless there is an example set all that will happen is this gets talked to death and never any action ..same old!!
Beryl |
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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2011 : 1:13:05 PM
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How can you ban whips......in a stallion class ?? What if one gets loose ??
Fantastic hear that Khalideya made this move - bravo to them :)
I, personally don't think this is a matter for our AHS as it is so much bigger than them. We have the backing of Princess Alia as Zoe Tyzack kindly contacted on our behalf and some fantastic ideas from Emma. We must approach ECAHO. I actually think the solution lies in the hands of the owners, if these handlers aren't used, if you stress your horses welfare if of utmost importance then it won't happen. As stressed before these aren't evil people perhaps too competitive and with the pressure to win, win, win from their owners.
Sadly so many people don't seem to post on A/lines now but I'd be interested in the views of Liz Salmon, Tommy Husebye and the like as to whether we actually have this 'frozen pose' at our Nationals ?? |
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Silver
Silver Member
279 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2011 : 3:54:53 PM
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| I actually think some of the handlers are evil,to abuse a horse so that it has such fear of its handler is evil,the only crime the horse has committed is to have been born more beautiful than most,what a life. |
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jaybird
Gold Member
France
1192 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2011 : 4:56:59 PM
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Hi
Delyth...you and I know owners with that amount of cash probably don't even know what the horses are put through..!! it's just put with handlers that win..!!!! I repeat the stupid owners society needs addressing first...publicity..publicity..!!! pictures & proof...might stir things up abit.
Beryl |
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basbob
Gold Member
France
1356 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2011 : 6:00:47 PM
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Sorry Beryl it's not only the rich but the ambitious. An owner I know sent her yearling filly off to what she said was the least abusive training centre to be shown then sold on. She also told me that you have to expect abuse at some level if you want to succeed and win.
The training centres need results to stay in business and the pressure is certainly on - many owners are completely unaware what really goes on and many would not recognise a frightened horse as that is all they know. Many however accept that this happens and they don't really care as it's more of an art exhibition for them.
Totally agree with Delyth that you can't ban whips, (2 stallions got loose in Aachen) - but maybe the whip should not be part on the stand up - I don't think it is with other breeds? I think Eric put down his whip with Almasa?
What about if DC's get picked out of a list of "availables" perhaps like a jury? The way I see this the fault is at the top - judges, DCs etc - in any business, which really is what this is for the "elite", the boundaries will always be stretched! |
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Livestream Aachen
