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Callisto
Platinum Member


6905 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2011 :  12:20:03 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Callisto to your friends list Send Callisto a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think we just have to keep going until there are changes. I knew something awful had happened to Harley while he was being 'trained' but I didn't know the detail. What Templars describes is abuse of the very worst order. The fact that the perpetrators appear to be hand in glove with the authorities is sickening. We cannot just roll over and let this continue, surely?

Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex
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Esther
Gold Member


United Kingdom
866 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2011 :  07:07:12 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Esther to your friends list Send Esther a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Templars, your poor boy. But look at him now - what a change....

We've also got a 'beauty school drop-out'. I've sent this to the ECAHO:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to you to raise some concerns about the handling of the in-hand arab horses at the recent Nations Cup held at Aachen. I dipped in and out of the live coverage over the whole weekend until I could bear no more and had to turn it off.

It may help if I explain my background. I have worked on a variety of showing/breeding yards, both purebred and part breds. I hold my National Pony Society Stud Certificate and I am now an advanced endurance rider with three purebred arabs of my own and a part bred.

One of my arabs is an ex in-hand show horse and in his day he was a British National Futurity Champion. Unfortunately he bears mental scars from his time as an in hand show arab, and given the wrong set of circumstance he will throw himself into the ‘frozen pose’ in a panic. It has taken us several years to get him to trot calmly without panicking or spinning at endurance ride trot ups. When he left his show career after mentally burning out, he was so stressed he was covered in a bubble-wrap like skin reaction all over his body.

However, this horse is not a neurotic horse. Far from it. He is otherwise such an easy horse to do; he is the one we stick visitors on because we know he will look after them. The panic is not ‘him’. It is something that was done to him. He is fine now, relaxed and chilled with some very well trained humans that dote on him, but it always makes me sad that such a simple innocent soul was so messed up by some of the previous humans in his life, all in the name of showing.

I used to think that our arab was unlucky, that he had just landed with the wrong people. I used to think that I had been unlucky when there was a new yard manager at one of the yards I worked at and the in hand arabs started getting ‘vitamin injections’ before they went in the ring.

However, watching the footage from Aachen this year brought it all back. Not only that, but the standard of handling seems to have got even worse, with the bad handling much more widespread. Having been out of the 'scene' for some time the changes were that much more noticible to me. I could count the empathetic handlers on the fingers of one hand and they were very much in the minority.

What I saw on the footage from Aachen was terrified horses reacting violently and out of fear of their handlers. I saw handlers with very aggressive, intimidating body language. I saw horses so scared and stilted that they could not demonstrate their paces. I saw people chase and scare the horses so that they ran hollow and broke pace. I saw judges that had to keep running backwards out of the way so that they weren’t squashed by horses who leapt sideways as if they had been shocked. I saw horses whose eyes were rolling in fear as they were asked to pose. And yet the judges said nothing and continued to place the horses.

The truly depressing thing is that the arab does not need this kind of handling to show itself off. If an arab trusts its handler, it will dance and float and play. No dominance or aggression is needed.

There are already rules in place, I believe, to prevent distressing and abusive handling. Why are these rules not enforced? Please can you tell me, for the sake of other horses like ours who are being abused in the name of the in hand arab show circuit, what the ECAHO intends to do to enforce its own rules in future and prevent this kind of distressing spectacle from happening again? How can we claim back our breed?



paranoid horsemother

Photo on far right thanks to West End Photography
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Goldenmane
Platinum Member


United Kingdom
4964 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2011 :  08:07:36 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Goldenmane to your friends list Send Goldenmane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Esther, that is brilliant.

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Callisto
Platinum Member


6905 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2011 :  08:13:31 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Callisto to your friends list Send Callisto a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree, and so sorry to read about the lasting effects on your poor boy.

Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member


United Kingdom
13976 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2011 :  09:44:21 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add LYNDILOU to your friends list Send LYNDILOU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
on a lighter note, I thought you might like to see this lovely old picture of major Maxwell and Fakhr El Kheil in Paris , the picture was titled (NO WHIPS PLEASE WE'RE BRITISH)

HES HOLDING AN UMBRELLA


www.dreamfield-arabians.com

Edited by - LYNDILOU on 08 Oct 2011 09:49:36 AM
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member


United Kingdom
13976 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2011 :  09:50:54 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add LYNDILOU to your friends list Send LYNDILOU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
sorry about the poor quality of the copy, it was from an old magazine


www.dreamfield-arabians.com
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BabsR
Platinum Member


England
2790 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2011 :  10:29:40 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BabsR to your friends list Send BabsR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Now......Could the `modern` show producers/trainers say what is wrong with the old fashioned method of stand up which shows off all the attributes of arabian conformation.

Love the smart suited city gent handler complete with brolly[:d][:d]

Seriously though...The horse looks happy and relaxed.....No big swishing whip or threatening stance of the handler....Methinks we should reflect.... And bring back the good old days, when happy horses displayed their natural exhuberance and enthusiasm for appreciative ordiences.......Money has become the name of the game
To the very detriment of our beautiful arabian....Both in make,shape and action!!

Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk



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susan p
Gold Member


Scotland
915 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2011 :  10:30:19 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add susan p to your friends list Send susan p a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wonderful letter Esther


www.blackislearabians.com
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the ways its animals are treated
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alistair leslie
Gold Member

England
1036 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2011 :  10:36:55 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add alistair leslie to your friends list Send alistair leslie a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Jaybird
I am on record for about 15 years against this and have been to ECAHO and made a fuss but the audience was not with me then .
Now it is
I suggest sorting it our selves with the HANDLERS not going to the newspaper where nice Arab enthusiasts get caught up in negative sensationalism which will finish the business for good .


blue moon
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susan p
Gold Member


Scotland
915 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2011 :  10:45:50 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add susan p to your friends list Send susan p a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If "the business" continues in this way,,it needs to be finished for good!
ECAHO should take action against cruelty to protect the "nice Arab enthusiasts" from being tarred with the same brush,,"If you fly with the crows,you will be shot with them!"


www.blackislearabians.com
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the ways its animals are treated
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jaybird
Gold Member


France
1192 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2011 :  12:08:32 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jaybird to your friends list Send jaybird a Private Message  Reply with Quote


Exactly....If people lead by example then others follow...a good start would be by the judges selection they should have to earn the priviledge of being selected to judge..and not just by who you know !! these guys should have to be Lilly White in thier commitment to fair play..and not to who breeds/sells/shows for who !!. They are out there..but do they get asked to judge anymore...Hmm!!!

Beryl




Beryl

Edited by - jaybird on 08 Oct 2011 12:19:39 PM
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debs
Platinum Member

United Kingdom
3218 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2011 :  12:43:25 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add debs to your friends list Send debs a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Brilliant letter Esther, I wonder what kind of response you will get? Please let us know.

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Kazzy
Platinum Member


England
3335 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2011 :  1:13:32 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Kazzy to your friends list Send Kazzy a Private Message  Reply with Quote


To Esther.

Janet



Sunny Cheshire
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phoenixbruka
Gold Member


England
1190 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2011 :  1:35:19 PM  Show Profile  Visit phoenixbruka's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add phoenixbruka to your friends list Send phoenixbruka a Private Message  Reply with Quote
sent my email lets see if anything happens

susie


www.liveryatcordwell.co.uk
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Zenitha
Gold Member


England
1078 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2011 :  2:13:43 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Zenitha to your friends list Send Zenitha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well hats off to the British Horseracing Authority

After the public outcry following the 'whipping' incident at Aintree in April, they have come up with a new set of TOUGH rules to prevent such an incident happening again, and it sounds like they have EVERY intention of enforcing them, to the letter !

In response to the public reaction, they have DONE SOMETHING ABOUT IT - without fear of recrimination from the rich and powerful (after all - racing is the sport of Kings is it not ?). This action can only IMPROVE the image of racing.

Why the hell can't ECAHO and the rest of the world do the same ? SHAME ON YOU ECAHO !!

I agree with everything you say Alistair, bar the sorting it out 'in house'. I understand your reasoning behind this, but I do believe that unless there is pressure from the horse world as a whole, nothing will change. Whilst publicity may initially be damaging to the breed (although I do actually feel that the reputation of the Arabian is already pretty much as low as can be), if change is implemented the equestrian world can then start to see the Arabian in a more positive light. And as I have said, I sadly believe that true change will only come about through pressure from the equestrian world as a whole, and the most important issue of all is the welfare of these horses, even if it means short term damage to an already tarnished reputation.

Obviously, the sickening behaviour that goes on behind closed doors (electric cattle prods, beatings etc)would be punishable by law if these swines were to be caught in the act - is it acceptable for these animals to be swiped across the legs with a whip in public ? The heavy shanking, with wafer thin nosebands, chains and a bit - is this not unacceptable cruelty which could bring about prosecution ? Why then is it tolerated ?

Whilst the owners are wholly responsible for recognising that their horse is being abused, they alone cannot be blamed for pressure on the trainers to get results. Whilst thankfully this does not happen in this country (probably the reason there is less abuse here)- in other countries trainers receive BIG money from owners for securing wins and placings with their horses - so the trainers have their own money governed incentives to do well, regardless of pressure from owners.

At the end of the day, all trainers have a choice - and to me only a certain type of person could inflict such terrible tortures on a living creature

To me, the only way forward is to draw as much attention to what is so sadly commonplace in the Arabian showworld as possible - so forcing ECAHO & others to act. Support the shows, don't boycott them. Show your horses as you would like to show them, become the majority instead of the minority. The AHS could offer refresher courses to judges on how to spot intimidation, to DC's on how to enforce a more transparent, fairer playing field, giving them the back up and power they need (I have witnessed handlers blatently ignoring DC's, and even telling them to shut up !)Judges and DC's shouldn't be doing the job unless they have the courage to stand up competitors, whoever they are, but they need to have the power to deal with those that flout the rules.

Change is possible, but it needs pressure and guts. Keep writing people


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BabsR
Platinum Member


England
2790 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2011 :  3:37:47 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BabsR to your friends list Send BabsR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Super Post Jane I agree with all the content

Myself, scribing a letter to the powers that be.....WE MUST STOP THIS BLATANT AND CRUEL ABUSE ONCE AND FOR ALL. ARAB HORSE SOCIETY HEIRARCHY...WHOEVER YOU ARE, STAND UP AND BE COUNTED.....NEW RULES FOR JUDGES....NEW POWERS OF ENFOREMENT FOR D.C.s. AND REVISE THE RULES FOR METHOD OF SHOWING!!!

FACT IS.......WHAT IS WITNESSED IN THAT VIDEO.....THE BLATANT ABUSE AND CRUELTY AND DISREGARD OF THOSE IN AUTHORITY (THE JUDGE NEEDING TO STAND BETWEEN HORSE AND TRAINER/HANDLER...TOTALLY IGNORED)... DOES HAPPEN IN THE BRITISH ARABIAN SHOWRINGS AND WILL ONLY CONTINUE TO GET WORSE AS THE WEALTHY ELITIST ARAB OWNERS THINK THEY CAN INTIMIDATE AND THREATEN ANYONE WHO STANDS UP AND SPEAKS OUT!!

AS A DEDICATED BREEDER OF FORTY YEARS STANDING......I AM UTTERLY APPALLED BY THE `TURN A BLIND EYE` ATTITUDE TO WHAT IS HAPPENING.

GET YOUR HOUSE IN ORDER AHS.....IF BRITISH RACING AUTHORITY ARE ACTING UPON WHIP ABUSE......BE BIG ENOUGH TO FOLLOW SUIT AND GET RID OF ALL THE SHANKING CHAINS AND LONG CUTTING WHIPS....GET RID OF THE INSTRUMENTS OF TORTURE AND BAN THE PERPETRATORS FOR GOOD!!!

Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk


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Esther
Gold Member


United Kingdom
866 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2011 :  4:16:24 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Esther to your friends list Send Esther a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This seems to be the stock reply:

I am glad that there is a large outcry about horse abuse in showing. I must point out that this is NOT a rare thing - I was recently at the Egyptian Event in Kentucky, USA, and it was as bad if not worse there. This does not EXCUSE what happened in Aachen, and it was many of the same handlers, but we all need to realise that it is a widespread syndrome - so much so that it has almost become a norm. Judges comment on relaxed horses not being "tense enough",... handlers say they are pampered and well fed - as if constant stress and not knowing where or WHY the next blow will fall does not outweigh good feed and a nice stall, or at least offset it to the detriment of the creature's well being.
ECAHO can set rules, but they are only as strong as those who enforce them. Many are scared to, or not supported by the organisers. The bottom line is that judges reward these methods, so handlers will keep doing it, to win. Many owners are ignorant or don’t care, or think a smack or shank is not SOO bad... AWARENESS is what is needed. PRESSURE on handlers and owners and judges is needed. Please do address these entities. You could also address the ETHA (European Trainers and Handlers Association), a new group, largely of the handlers in the video, who want to represent handlers within ECAHO and who don’t see these actions as wrong, or deny they even happen.
With thanks for your concern, and please feel free to share your views, we all need to act and keep pressure on for change for the better, God Willing,

Sincerely,
Alia Al Hussein

paranoid horsemother

Photo on far right thanks to West End Photography
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DEA
Junior Member

48 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2011 :  4:52:22 PM  Show Profile  Visit DEA's Homepage Bookmark this reply Add DEA to your friends list Send DEA a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If you have a financial type of problem then you can threaten with the Ombudsman and 'suddenly' you are treated fairly and whatever the issue it is rectified immediately, is there not the same sort of thing for horses? I found this online which i don't think is for horses??? It says farm animals but its interesting what they are protected from if you read it http://ec.europa.eu/food/animal/welfare/actionplan/actionplan_en.htm

I think the problem needs to be addressed from a higher body but i don't have any idea who it may be. Some sort of legislation is surely required, adheared to and enforced. Its the same as ringing BT with a problem and getting nowhere and having to go to ofcom. There must be a higher organisation that will sort this out?

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Elainem
Silver Member

United Kingdom
439 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2011 :  5:40:51 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Elainem to your friends list Send Elainem a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Jane Fraser Brown

As a Council member and the AHS Welfare officer can you assure us that this issue will be on the agenda for the next Council meeting. We need to be all together to be able to go forward with this. As a DC we need to be able to work with the show officials, stewards and judges to enforce the rules as set out on the "Blue Book".

Elaine

E Mann
www.northernarabianhorse.com

Edited by - Elainem on 08 Oct 2011 5:51:58 PM
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Zenitha
Gold Member


England
1078 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2011 :  7:24:48 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Zenitha to your friends list Send Zenitha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Brilliant Elaine, start the ball rolling

Is there anywhere that lists the members of ETHA ? I have to say I find the idea of it worrying -it seems to me that handlers are becoming more powerful than owners/judges/anybody ?

Would also like to add that I do feel (I hope I'm right) that the majority of trainers in this country are good and that abuse here is nowhere near that of elsewhere - particularly places like the States and Brazil. If Europe can clean up its act, the onus will be on other countries to follow suit.


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jaybird
Gold Member


France
1192 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2011 :  9:26:22 PM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jaybird to your friends list Send jaybird a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi

Sorry Elaine that means 'cuppa tea & biscuit what's next on the agenda '....this has been brought up at so many 'supposedly' and what has ever happened....nothing..!!! time for more action.



Beryl
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Tahir
Platinum Member


United Kingdom
4572 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2011 :  12:51:36 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Tahir to your friends list Send Tahir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Many trainers/handlers are only as powerful as their next paycheck...... they don't give a flying f*ck about the horses (as is apparent). So it is the imposition of Joe Public that is influential....... keep talking, keep doing.
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templars
Platinum Member


England
1852 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2011 :  04:47:37 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add templars to your friends list Send templars a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Beryl

Elaine is one of the bravest, most honourable and fair minded people I know. She was forced to leave the AHS Council because she challenged them on their handling of the alleged abuse at Malvern a couple of years ago. She didn't take sides, she simply asked for all the facts to be presented so that she could form her own opinion. With supreme arrogance, the powers that be determined what evidence would be put before the Council and Elaine was forced to leave when she challenged this.

She knows the rules of the game and we all saw what happened last time when the response from the AHS was that due process had not been followed. So perhaps this approach may not be as strong as some would like - but well done Elaine for doing what is set out in the rules, and making sure every box is ticked so there is no "wriggle room" for the AHS to claim due process hasn't been followed.

(And can I please EXCLUDE that staff at Windsor House when I say AHS - the team there are superbly professional).

www.eviepeel.com
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Fee
Platinum Member


2601 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2011 :  06:59:13 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Fee to your friends list Send Fee a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If the WELFARE officer of the AHS employs the person who did that to Templars horse and if it is the same person in that video (even MORE evidence) then I want to say to the AHS 'WELFARE' officer you should be ASHAMED. Dont tell me you dont know this is going on WELFARE officer. Well seen its not the welfare of the arab horse you have as your priority. Glad you're not looking after the welfare of my horses.


Fee


ETA Let's watch the AHS wriggle, squirm, duck and try to find a loophole in the rules to avoid upsetting the 'big' people in the Arab showing world. Or just maybe they will stand up for the very thing they are meant to be representing and protecting, the Arab horse..........now there's a thought!

Yep, made me too, but it was worth a thought. We all know their time, energy and money will go into trying to whiten over black.






Edited by - Fee on 09 Oct 2011 07:13:09 AM
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jaybird
Gold Member


France
1192 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2011 :  07:49:26 AM  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jaybird to your friends list Send jaybird a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Templars


It was not aimed at Elaine as I know of her dedication and fight in the AHS, it was aimed more at the AHS Welfare officer...that's what they do... nothing...Oh they talk a good corner but their actions..well.!!!

Beryl

Edited by - jaybird on 09 Oct 2011 08:18:29 AM
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