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templars
Platinum Member
England
1852 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 11:38:41 AM
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Only just been able to view the video.
Feel sick - the very same person who almost killed Harley and who was reported to the AHS welfare seems to have been employed by same welfare officer and is in this video. And before everyone jumps on me - no I'm not naming names but it's about time some of the other owners who were on the receiving end of this despicable person stepped up to be counted - I know of at least 2 others whose horses were abused by this person (but none as severely as Harley)
We have dedicated our lives to the joy and promotion of the Arabian horse and all the value of the Arabian heritage. Whilst we no longer participate in in-hand showing, we have been very enthusiastic about proving that show horses can and do compete outside the show world. But how they hell could any of these horses go on to a ridden career after this abuse? Beautiful, capable horses totally destroyed.
I reported all the abuse I knew about - to the AHS, BHS, RSPCA - and nothing happened. Nothing changed. Why should it - after all who the hell am? I'm not a big wig or a "name". Instead I was accused of being a woman of a certain age who was anti-gay, or anti-showing or just so full of jealousy that my horse hadn't won that I was on a vendetta. I was threatened with Court action if I named the people involved.
So, without naming any names here is the abuse I have witnessed first hand or been told about (from people well known and respected and some of whom post on here):
- cattle prods used on the ribs
- electric fencing stips attached to a battery and used to line a head collar to make the eyes pop
- cigaratte lighters used under the chin and throat to get the arched neck
- one champion kept 24x7 in his box and so stressed he had to have someone sleep with him and then as soon as he finishes in the show ring, the vet sedates him for his journey home
- acid thrown over another competitors horse that was tipped to win
- over exciteable horses denied water for 3 days and then given gallons on the day of the class (that was a ridden horse!)
- stallion baiting by putting the stallions nose to nose just to get a nice photo
- kicking, punching, shanking and general beatings
Here's my boy with us - the evil eventing people who put their horse's life at risk:
And here he is straight from the wonderful, show loving person from the video - the same person who is so highly regarded in the Arab world that the welfare officer employs him and some of you think is a hero.
So don't talk to me about abuse - it's been known about for years and those in a position to stop it have just turned away. How on God's earth will it ever be stamped out whilst senior people in the AHS employ people who do this and here we are 5 years later and they're still doing it - still being allowed to show and still getting placed.
I don't know who you are (the person that took this video) but from the bottom of my heart - thank you so much. I couldn't prove that this person hurt my horse (despite the photos and vets reports) and all I kept being told was that the person was a lovely handler and wouldn't hurt a fly. You have the video footage that brings that statement into question and people can draw their own conclusions.
After all these years, that's the best I can hope for - that all of you, including those who have supported this abuse, or found it amusing, or found it good practice - is that you question this abuse. Look deep into your souls and just ask - is this really worth it for a red rosette?
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Quarabian
Platinum Member
Wales
4340 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 11:49:40 AM
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| Brave and heartfelt post Templars. I am so glad your boy is in good hands now. I have been following Harley's success, but I didn't know about the bad times for him. |
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C_Ma
Bronze Member
Denmark
51 Posts |
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basbob
Gold Member
France
1356 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 12:20:11 PM
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Templars, that is awful. So so sad for your horse.
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susan p
Gold Member
Scotland
915 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 12:29:33 PM
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The video evidence can not be denied,and could it be used along with your photographic evidence of Harley to have this person charged?
Something must be done about these "trainers",,,now,before they ruin any more beautiful horses,how many horses after "professional show training" in this style,go on to have a successful ridden career?
How many get sold by unscrupulous dealers to innocent horse lovers,,who then spend all of their earnings on back specialists,equine dentists,vets,horse whisperers,,,,go on forums saying "why is he head shy? why does he rear,buck,bite,,,?"
Watch this video,learn about their training methods,then find out why,the beautiful,stunning Arab that you love is so screwed up and then listen to them mocking the "fluffy bunny","my little pony" pet owners,laughing at them spending so much money.
There are a lot of evil crooks in the Arabian world and I am all for naming and shaming  |
www.blackislearabians.com
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the ways its animals are treated
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gossy
Platinum Member
England
3639 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 12:45:40 PM
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totally agree, Emma shows the horses beautifully and im sure are looked after fantasticly, i know that some others do to.
So sorry for what happened to your boy Templars  |
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Edited by - gossy on 07 Oct 2011 12:46:05 PM |
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Kazzy
Platinum Member
England
3335 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 1:41:21 PM
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My guts just been wrenched reading what Templars has put!!
You and you boy are happy now. I would have gone mad like you trying to prove what this handler did to your beautiful boy and everybody ignoring you.
Money speaks doesnt it and money is the root of all evil
Hope they feel shamed but I should imagine they dont, thats the problem, they dont give two!!
Janet
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Sunny Cheshire |
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Pasch
Platinum Member
2277 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 2:32:35 PM
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Templars,feel so sorry for what you and your beautiful horse had to go through!The list of abuses you describe is awful,unfortunately it doesn't surprise me.Part of the problem I think also lies in wanting to get a horse ready for shows in a very short time,wether because owners want to save money,or handlers want to earn more by taking many horses,or both.Short cuts are NEVER good with horses.
The abuses you describe really call for some undercover investigation from animal rights groups as somebody suggested earlier in this post...maybe if the video and this subject made it outside the specialized press it could have a bigger impact?
I am not sure about boycott.True,the big breeders with plenty of money have a lot of power,but how many of them are there?could they(and the handlers,the show organizers,the glossy magazines...)survive on their own if all the small,dedicated owners suddenly stopped to feed the system?
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 2:44:25 PM
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I am not in favour of sensational press getting a hold of what is essentially an in-house problem
Dirty linen and all that .
No we can deal with it -just keep up the pressure on your Councillor and president and Governors as well as ECAHO and WAHO . |
    
blue moon |
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 2:45:47 PM
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mainly because innocent get tarred at a great cost that cannot be undone . |
blue moon |
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Tzarina
Platinum Member
England
1997 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 2:46:03 PM
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True,the big breeders with plenty of money have a lot of power,but how many of them are there?could they(and the handlers,the show organizers,the glossy magazines...)survive on their own if all the small,dedicated owners suddenly stopped to feed the system?
Pasch, IMO, yes at the big international shows. There are not that many small owners who compete. Their are some small studs who may have one outstanding animal to compete, but look how many went from GB to Aachen this year - the numbers were well down |
    
Tzarinaarabians@yahoo.com
"The horse is God's gift to mankind."
"The daughter who wont lift a finger in the house is the same child who cycles madly off in the pouring rain to spend all morning mucking out a stable."
"All horses deserve to be loved by at least one little girl during their life" |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 3:37:04 PM
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Deducting points is a good idea, but obviously only works where the point system is used. It could not be used at C shows and similar as we use the single judge system, not points. IMO, a solution that works at all levels would be preferable/
Keren |
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Tzarina
Platinum Member
England
1997 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 3:44:17 PM
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| Is the pic of Emma from this year's T/land's? I didnt go so who is the lovely stallion - its not Piligrim is it. What a lovely pic of Emma showing as always. |
Tzarinaarabians@yahoo.com
"The horse is God's gift to mankind."
"The daughter who wont lift a finger in the house is the same child who cycles madly off in the pouring rain to spend all morning mucking out a stable."
"All horses deserve to be loved by at least one little girl during their life" |
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Pasch
Platinum Member
2277 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 3:54:56 PM
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Tzarina,yes,but if big shows are the top of a pyramid,what if the base of the pyramid suddenly disappear?How could they afford to still go on?
Alistair,I can't see how innocents could be tarred if they were the ones to start the outcry.The videos are on the net,and many of the competitions are held in horse fairs open to general public,horse lovers and simple curious alike.I heard some of the comments and I can assure you the Arab world doesn't come well out of it already. |
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Jess.Austin
Junior Member
35 Posts |
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stuart
Silver Member
United Kingdom
335 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 4:49:09 PM
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Jess - you must surely ask yourself why our UK shows are poorly attended?
Economy aside, but accepted as a factor - is it because some of this 'style' of handling is already present..........? The potential owner/exhibitor wishes no part in perpetuating the practise?
Stuart. |
North Norfolk |
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Jess.Austin
Junior Member
35 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 5:06:38 PM
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| My point is if all shows across Europe including the UK were judged the same using the points system they can all be disciplined the same under ECAHO ruling! And if all shows were points system then a penalty point system could be implemented at every show therefore no confusion between owners, handlers, trainers, judges, DC's etc as to what the rules are regarding excessive shanking, whipping etc etc |
El Tahira Arabian Training
Jess Austin
www.el-tahira.co.uk |
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templars
Platinum Member
England
1852 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 5:10:54 PM
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sorry to labour a point but ... aren't welfare officers also councillors? What's the point of lobbying those who ignore reports of abuse if they only go on to hire those who abuse?
Edited to add: I agree with you Alistair about the potential worry of innocent people getting tarred with the same brush. But I think if there is video evidence to support an allegation then it should be aired. Sadly, photographic proof wasn't considered enough in our case because apparently "anyone could have caused the starvation and injuries". So, some dear and very brave friends tried to get video footage of Harley being thumped in the face - they almost got it but at the point of contact, the camera person was so shocked that they dropped the camera and the police told me that because there was no footage of the clenched fist actually making contact with Harley's temple, then there was no proof of abuse because at the last minute the handler may have opened their hand and stroked him not thumped him. So, whilst I don't advocate a witch hunt and I'm nervous of "under cover investigations", in my opinion video footage like this should be shared with the widest possible audience. If TV crews and newspapers choose to take it further - so be it. |
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Edited by - templars on 07 Oct 2011 6:05:36 PM |
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Silver
Silver Member
279 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 6:06:52 PM
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| Who is the welfare officer for the AHS there dosent seem to be one named on their website. |
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templars
Platinum Member
England
1852 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 6:09:48 PM
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| There used to be a few - they were regionally based. Since I found that they don't actually do much and don't really have any powers to act, I stopped looking for who they are. |
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 7:00:17 PM
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The problem needs to be sorted but not by people outside the community who may have a sensationalist agenda -to sell papers and magazines- so we shouls avoid the suggestion to have a N>O>World type undercover story and go directly to the people who can changed it .
The Handlers Assoc can make a new system
The Judges too
DC must stick to the rules of ECAHO
and ECAHO should be dissolved as it is serves no useful purpose . |
blue moon |
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jaybird
Gold Member
France
1192 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 8:40:35 PM
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Right Alistair...Nothing happens then..!!! you need publicity for the cruel handling of these horses...not discussion behind closed doors for goodness sake that just what has been happening for years..what's been done? Nothing...!!!!
Beryl |
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ambassador
Bronze Member
France
102 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 8:46:14 PM
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I have emailed ETHA asking for some clarification of their Terms & Conditions as seen on their Webb page for 2.1 To preserve the welfare of the Arabian Horse throughout Europe & Middle East.
2.4 To prevent Cruelty to horse
Keep up the bombardment everyone the time is know.
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gem@oakmeister
Silver Member
421 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 9:35:17 PM
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The AHS website names the welfare officer.
Reading the short piece on their welfare page is quite amusing, if it wasn't so Pathetic.
Simply a copy of the DEFRA welfare code. |
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debs
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 9:51:29 PM
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- cattle prods used on the ribs
- electric fencing stips attached to a battery and used to line a head collar to make the eyes pop
- cigaratte lighters used under the chin and throat to get the arched neck
- one champion kept 24x7 in his box and so stressed he had to have someone sleep with him and then as soon as he finishes in the show ring, the vet sedates him for his journey home
- acid thrown over another competitors horse that was tipped to win
- over exciteable horses denied water for 3 days and then given gallons on the day of the class (that was a ridden horse!)
- stallion baiting by putting the stallions nose to nose just to get a nice photo
- kicking, punching, shanking and general beatings
How revolting. Naming and shaming is just not enough for these low lie people that inflicted this on a horse.
If after all this information has been passed on in the past, can we really expect any changes?????
sad
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