| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
navaho621
Gold Member
Wales
510 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 5:42:34 PM
|
As weve seen in the past on here, if we know that an Arab is entered for a sale we often post on here about it, ive been guilty of this in the past on many occasions. However i know find myself questioning whether i should have done this, ive always done this to try & help one find a new home, but recent events have come to light & ive now discovered that some breeders are so worried about the verbal lynching that they would receive from here that they are opting for other avenues of "disposal". I dont wish to name names or point fingers, im sure that many breeders are struggling financially with their backs against the wall & name calling will not help their situations in the slightest. Its a shame that we come across so "scary" & it would be nice to think that in hard times this place would be a port of call for help rather then criticism.
|
|
Report to moderator
|
|
|
Pashon2001
Platinum Member
3575 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 6:25:25 PM
|
See that scary that I'm the first one to answer!! I'm afraid that I fear you are right. There is always too much criticism of someone trying to rehome a horse, for whatever reason they are doing it. And all types of horses end up at sales, it really makes no difference whether it be arab or not. Although I would hate to think of any of mine ending up there it may have happened, and through no fault of theirs or their owners. I would not like to think how people are disposing (horrible term) of their horses when times are as hard as they are at the moment.
I hope I never end up in that sort of situation, and if I did, someone would help not penalise. |
     
www.jarvastud.com http://hocon.webs.com/ |
Report to Moderator  |
|
|
jo78
Silver Member
499 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 6:38:06 PM
|
I too must agree, i dont often post on here anymore through fear of be being judged for whatever reason. Some unfortunate souls hit bad times and not knowing which way to turn for the best come on here for help/advice.
I have read some threads with disgust as people are just attacked by so called `do gooders` or think they are, who are just trying to do their best by their animals. IMO if there werent as many `do gooders` in this world it would be a better place, for example the thread about prisoners rights, sex offenders rights (sorry for ranting  )
I dont know how some people can judge others so horrendously, and publicly, if these people havent got anything positive or helpful to say...then say nothing.
Just my humble opinion  |
J.Ellis |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
natntaz
Platinum Member
England
2919 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 7:00:13 PM
|
Totally Agree, none of us should judge as we never know
what is around the corner. Life can be cruel enough.
Lets hope that the people who do judge refrain from making
harsh comments and make comments that can help as this can
be such a useful site when people decide to help. |
   
Natalie Pix. Essex. Tariq ibn Radfan and Taroub |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Quarabian
Platinum Member
Wales
4340 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 7:51:43 PM
|
I would rather know on here if an arab is going to the sales. How can anyone help if we dont know. There have been a few successes lately where horses have been helped through AL.
I am worried now as to the other method of disposal hinted at. Please pm me navaho621 if you dont want to say it out loud. |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
pintoarabian
Gold Member
Scotland
1242 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 7:55:27 PM
|
Sadly, I think that there is a very judgmental minority on here who are too quick to condemn, so I can fully understand why most people would not risk a public 'stoning' by openly airing their difficulties or changes in circumstances, particularly regarding horse welfare. It is very sad that people feel compelled to 'opt for other avenues of disposal' rather than turn to what should be a supportive and understanding community. I am certain that the majority would be very supportive and understanding but won't get involved in the unpleasantness that can erupt sometimes.
However, such behaviour is not exclusive to this forum. I have read much, much worse on another, non-Arab, forum where certain cliques seek out their prey like a pack of hyenas. Bullying is rife. They think it is funny to humiliate and patronise their victims and they gloat over their 'kills'. There are ALWAYS two sides to every story but, no matter how many times history repeats, some people never learn and go in with guns blazing, time after time, often making a complete fool of themselves in the eyes of the silent majority who witness their 'holier than thou' rants. The wary learn to 'steer clear' of certain members and their sycophants.
Making ends meet is getting harder for almost all of us and this is not going to improve in the foreseeable future. Bad fortune can affect anyone at any time. Aren't we supposed to be only three pay packets away from homelessness? There, but for the grace of God, go I! If it happened to me, would I come on here and bare my soul? Not on your life! |
http://www.performancearabians.com
http://performancearabians.blogspot.com/
https://www.facebook.com/PerformanceArabians
      |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Fee
Platinum Member
2601 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 8:11:11 PM
|
I think and hope people would feel ok to post or advertise their horse at a reduced price or free if they're having difficulties, on here or anywhere else.
From what I can remember people gave advice on the pitfalls and dangers of giving a horse away cheaply or free. I think they are just afraid for the horse and their heart is in the right place. I hope those who may be scared to come on here realise that.
It's a fine line re 'disposing' of their horse(s). Because times are hard, is it then ok for them to PTS instead? PTS, free to good home, dealer, cheap sale, what's best?? Everyone will have an opinion on that question, that's normal and some will come across more robust than others in their opinion. I have to say, this forum has a lot of members, it's an open forum, the members are passionate about the horse and arabs in particular and considering that I think it's not at all scary.
I don't think it's possible or good for the horse in general to ask people to keep their opinion to themselves. I think what people should do is try to refrain from judging the person and only offer advice or help. However, if you see or feel something is very wrong I don't think you should say nothing just because 'times are hard' or for fear that you may be called too judgmental. Someone must stand up for the horse. Hopefully these breeders who are scared have stopped breeding!
I think what I'm trying to get across is that I fear this 'don't judge because times are hard' may encourage/alter opinions and/or give the green light to people to give up on their horse and PTS.
No doubt I've come across all judgmental and horrible, I don't mean to, but some people take things they way they are meant and some don't. Some people come across great in forums, some don't, some people come across great in person and some don't! 
Fee |
    |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
carrots
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
159 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 9:57:43 PM
|
Very intersting thread.
I breed Welsh Sec B ponies,sadly this year will see my last foal.
I have stopped breeding for a number of reasons, the main one being homes for my babies. I dont sell my youngsters, I give them away on free loans, I have been lucky I admit, all my babies are in wonderful homes, my stallion, who I gelded at the age of 9 has gone on to lead a wonderful life in his loan home. I have noticed that more and more horse/ponies are for sale at prices that made them dam good bargins not 12 months ago!! its a sign of the times, we are all feeling the pinch of this recession, and it will only get worse........before it gets better.
I have taken in ponies over the years for many reason, lack of money by owners, RSPCA cases and the totally unwanted!! for what ever reason a person has to sell/give away a horse there is always a good reason why.
For many owners its ther hardest thing they will ever do in their lives, soul distroying.
So who are we to judge them, and reading some threads I think we are! Let him without sin cast the first stone (and I am not a church person before you ask!)
I am lucky, I dont have to sell my babies, and they can always come home, at 24 hours notice. But I dont run to rescue all those sec B's going through auctions, nor do I berate their owners for doing it.
As for other methods of 'disposal' well I would rather a wagon full of horses go for meat than face a downward spiral of uncertainty!
I myself have had PTS youngsters that were and would have been unable to lead a ful life, one with very deformed legs, one that was a danger to himself and others both human and equine. Not 2 months ago I had my mare PTS, why? because she had cushings and lami, ok some will say she could have lived a few more years on drugs, but why! she would never be able to go out on the summer grazing, never lead a normal life again...it would have been dreadful for a mare that lived out all her life, to be stabled and kept a regimented life, just to keep her alive another few years.....I loved her, I could not see her like that.
WE are not perfect, so maybe we should not condem those who for what ever reason cannot carry on, free, sales, PTS what ever, we might not see it as right, but some have no chose in the matter, they do what they think is best... just like I do. |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Pop
Platinum Member
England
3051 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 08:31:19 AM
|
Stories of horses who owners have gone thru extreme personal hardship to care for their horses; and can go on no longer are heart breaking. And they are now not uncommon. Those people deserve every possible support they can be given, in every way. However, there is a very real danger of, since it is now 'acceptable' thru familiarity to 'rehome or PTS', there are some who would, and have, make the PTS thread when their circumstances are not hardship in any way other than the horse is inconvenient to their new lifestyle; and even an owner saying SELL or PTS, but no loans or gifting.
Its the way things go, and the re-home or PTS gets a quick response, but I feel it is an insult to those who are genuine and desperate to find help for their horse when those whose situations are not genuinely desperate, and/or they just need to get rid of the horse by loan or sale and use the PTS card.
It does not matter to the horse if the situation is genuine or not, and its probably just as urgent to find a home for a horse whose owner finds the horse an inconvenience or just wants a quick sale, because they certainly appear not to being acting in a responsible horse owner way. But if the none genuine owners are showered with hugs and kittens, then more will come, and the genuinely desperate owner will be lost in mass of opportunity grabbers. |
      |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
josiereanna
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
53 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 09:18:34 AM
|
I think this is a very good subject to bring up.
I hope that if ever i was in a sticky situation i would get helpful advise from here.
|
     |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
jaj
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4324 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 10:06:24 AM
|
My personal thoughts are that it might make quite a bit of difference as to how well 'known' you were on here. If you were a regular poster and people felt they knew your position and relationship with your horses then maybe you would get a more sympathetic response than an unknown person coming on with their story which may or may not be authentic.
I'd like to think I would ask for help here and yes I probably would if it was circumstances beyond my control as opposed to suddenly going off arabs and wanting the money for handbags instead  .
|
     
Kuraishiya (Maleik el Kheil/Kazra el Saghira) and Sahara Bey (Kuraishiya/WSA Charismma) |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 10:39:02 AM
|
Judi Forbis of Ansata regularily gave away her 'average' colts on the understanding they were gelded and became pleasure horses. I don't think you could offer this on here as the 'do-gooders' would commence their attack that you shouldn't breed if the said animal had no home/use.
If you breed you produce ok indiviuals not everything is top class, infact very few are HOWEVER it doesn't mean they won't do a fantastic job for someone else. I see very few colts that should remain entire. You see people state that it can't be gelded because of its bloodlines and that breeding can't be repeated and you are thinking 'thank god for that why would you repeat that breeding !!'
Great topic I've drifted off the main subect somewhat but yes there is too much critisism from some camps. |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Pop
Platinum Member
England
3051 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 11:04:48 AM
|
Must be very hard for those who breed as a business. You stop breeding and your business stops; and where is the income then to care for the horses you have; and the process of breeding is a long one; and many must be optimistic that the market will be better by the time the foals arrive.
To me it seems like separate issues, Horses as a business and private horse ownership, except in terms of the welfare of the horses.
A stud dispersal or reduction for financial reasons and the private owner who genuinely cannot cope any longer are very different from the horse owner who just wants rid of the horse and will shoot it if remains in their way.
Giving away an average colt with conditions seems to me to be a long off getting a 'scary' response. |
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 11:38:49 AM
|
I don't know of any breeder who doesn't have another source of income, you cannot make a viable business out of breeding horses. Perhaps you could once.
It is heard often 'you shouldn't produce foals unless you know where they will end up'. My point being if we did what Judi Forbis did and offered our 'free geldings' then the same people would say the very same thing.
Asking someone not to put a horse to sleep/send it to the sales because they can't afford to keep it, I agree, is a very different situation. |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
jackiedo
Gold Member
England
1370 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 11:46:37 AM
|
I have posted links on here with the intention to alert people with a specific breed interest and knowledge that a horse will be there and hopefully an empathic owner will result. Not to criticise anyone. Several people who read this board have bought horses from my links that may have been missed otherwise.
One was in dire need of a friend and has been in the same home ever since, but he had already left Arab hands and was with a notorious dealer as his owner had been "tricked" He is back in the gentlest of Arab owner hands and I am sure that he is greatful for my post as he was a long way down that slippery slope when his new owner bought him. (don't want to embarras you by naming you...) |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
|
|
Rui
AL Admin
6761 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 12:13:02 PM
|
On AL, everything within the rules will always be allowed, so we will not remove posts that fall within the rules. However, being a site that always promoted the arabian horse, I think this statement from Zan really should be always on everybody's minds when posting:
It's the horses that matter
We are regularly contacted by members expressing feelings similar to those described at the beginning of this topic. Every member is entitled to his / her opinion and that freedom of opinion, while within the forum rules, will always be respected by us. However the input we receive from our members really reminds us constantly that it is the horses that matter and and also indicates some opinions expressed here may, indeed, have other members refrain from posting, even when help would be very much needed. When that happens, maybe a horse will be put at higher risk and help that could otherwise be provided, won't even be given a chance.
Please consider this when posting. |
How to post flickr photos on AL | How to post photobucket pictures on AL | How to post facebook pictures on AL |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
susan p
Gold Member
Scotland
915 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 12:33:47 PM
|
| I agree it's the horses that matter,keep posting those links! |
www.blackislearabians.com
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the ways its animals are treated
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
jackiedo
Gold Member
England
1370 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 1:03:47 PM
|
| I am sure that anyone can understand that bad things happen to good people, and if I needed help I would not hesitate in asking for it on here. Indeed there has been a time when I desperately needed help and advice and it was immediately forthcoming. |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
navaho621
Gold Member
Wales
510 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 1:10:21 PM
|
Alot of replies & thanks to all who have taken the time to do so. Quarabian thankyou for you interest, but i really do not feel i can go into anymore detail than i have already, sadly people talk & i really do not wish anyone to feel that i have aimed this thread at them in particular, so im sorry, but my lips are sealed.
I see alot of you feel that we should still mention when a horse is entered for a sale, can i just suggested perhaps, if admin agreed, that maybe when someone does post about a horse maybe the topic could be locked to prevent any further posting (& scaring the pants off the owner) & perhaps put as a sticky at the top of the forum till the sale has been & gone? There has to be a solution that is beneficial to everyone including the horse, but without making people feel they cant turn to this forum for the support & advice they need. |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Rui
AL Admin
6761 Posts |
|
|
debs
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 2:18:27 PM
|
I would hope that if I had no where to turn I would come on AL.... I know things get heated sometimes, for different reasons, but think everyone has the horses interest's at heart.
Agree think some shysters will play on the sell or PTS routine, horrid people.
I have read before about Judith F gifting average Arabians she had bred, if you know where their going to what a great idea. Wish someone offered me one!!!
Seriously though, have often wondered what happens to the ones that aren't up to breed standard, presume the breeders cant keep them all??? Especially when back in the day breeding was rife???
Noticed on another forum that someone had put up a poll about breeding due to the current climate, results so for was that more horses are being bred than before... |
    |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
s.jade
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2401 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 3:12:06 PM
|
I think market conditions, price rises in hay and fuel, and other economical factors are forcing many peoples' hands.
I know how many of those poor people feel - and though my youngsters would never go to a sale or be PTS, waiting for the right home is pretty nerve racking though, when you know your next hay bale is now £50....
Guilt tripping in ads is appalling though, especially when there are genuine people out there who WILL have to PTS if homes can't be found, who would be willing to gift their horse....it's awful to say "Sell or PTS"...
|
 |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
debs
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 4:26:47 PM
|
| £50... if only! We pay £65, someone I know pays £80. |
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
basbob
Gold Member
France
1356 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 4:44:51 PM
|
It is very sad to have to part with an animal you love and sadly sales are often the only way for some folk.
I can't understand the problem at all with giving a horse away- there are many damn good homes out there who would love a horse but cannot come up with the capital to buy one. It you can't afford to keep your horse then you have to rehome.
I've seen far worse cases of neglect to horses that someone has paid a lot of money for, then got tired of/changed their breeding plan or changed their mind, than that of horses given away. I know of 2 young mares that've changed hands 3 times in a year.
You can never be sure of a good home no matter what price you have received for the animal. |
  [ |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
rosie
Platinum Member
England
3662 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 5:00:03 PM
|
' Are we really that scary?' -
Yes, I think when anyone on here posts about an Arab being entered for a sale, I think some peoples comments are really awful and downright hurtful!
And just because someone buys or sells at a sale doesn't mean that the horse needs to be 'saved' or that the buyer has 'saved' it.
Yes, I beleive that when the posts come up about Arabs at sales it is helpful as people on here may be potential buyers & can rehome the horse but after the slating some peole have received then maybe they will dispose of the horse via other means? |
     
Last picture courtesy of Sweet Photography |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Topic |
|
Are we really that scary?
