| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 5:39:50 PM
|
| A few weeks ago I purchased a very nice Trotter mare with the help of a Arabian friend :) She was bred in France and was heading back that way, this time in the form of someone's dinner. She's been her 2 months and for the first time this week I saw her canter with a kick and a buck. The things she has had to endure to make sure all she did was trot is nothing short of vile.....and you people are moaning about bag shaking, whooping and clapping. Oh for pities sake get a grip !! |
Report to Moderator  |
|
|
vjc
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4952 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 5:47:54 PM
|
Firstly weldone for helping that poor horse and god knows how many more are out there!!! But i really think it is not down to degree`s of abuse, All and every form of it should be stopped!!! We ask and even expect horses to adapt to our lifestyles/needs whether it be riding or showing so when they willingly conform we ahould never abuse that!!!! |
        |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
|
|
nissibay
Gold Member
England
595 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 6:13:37 PM
|
 To the people who are not seeing the point, not ONE person has disagreed with the cheering and encouragemnt that happens when the horse enters the ring! HOW THICK can people be to not see WE dont like anything that is remotley cruel or endangering nearby horses and handlers,!! why are people being sarcastic and say "oh lets show them in silence"???????NO ONE HAS SAID THAT!!!! dont beat or scare horses into looking more showy, end of story!!!! If people shake trees fling the whip around and bang boards at home, then that is out of our control, but when your in a public area with other horses and people know one should be doing this. I think if the article goes towards stopping the minority from acting in this way and makes people want to change the way arabs are percieved then it can only be a positive, it might be taking steps backward in imediate future but in the long run if the minority are actually the minority then surely this is the time for the majority to rule.
|
Sheen 
 |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 6:23:01 PM
|
| Unfortunately it appears that the majority are rather quieter than the minority who think that shaking trees, rattling stones and shrieking is perfectly acceptable. As has been pointed out repeatedly in the rather more balanced posts on this thread, nobody is demanding that there is no applause or appreciation. |
  Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
lisa rachel
Gold Member
Wales
831 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 6:27:23 PM
|
I wasn't going to post on this thread, I wasn't at Malvern, though in general terms I HAPPEN to agree with the posts of vjc, Roseanne,Zenitha, Jamama etc that is not why I am posting.
I am posting to say please can we find a way of discussing the situation in an amicable way? We all love the Arab horse, we have at least that in common.
Most people seem to agree that cheering and applause, at least at the end of a class are acceptable, most people agree that in hand showing of youngsters, done sensibly, is both an excellent shop window for breeders and a good education for young horses. There seem to be certain practices ... the frozen pose, shanking , whip waving etc which many people including almost everyone outside of the inhand showing world find ridiculous (to say the least). Can't we just discuss these practices specifically and not resort to personal attacks, it does none of us any credit. I don't think that the H+H article was condemning the breed, just the way it is shown, and to be fair it certainly has published many other articles highlighting issues of concern from obesity in the ring to Rollkur .( I am not a subscriber and don't hunt..I am just speaking as I find.)
IF the reporter came to the show with an 'agenda', the best defence of the Arab world would be that all horses were shown in such a way that there was 'nothing to report'.
Please for the sake of the breed, the dignity of the horses and ourselves lets try to be constructive. IMO we need to be clear about those issues which are actual welfare issues which we all condemn and which the AHS must be MADE to act upon, and those which are a matter of taste,for example the degree of noise. Perhaps those who enjoy the noise ('atmosphere') might pause to think how much is appropriate before it starts to look ridiculous or actually be upsetting for some horses or construed as outside interference and those who don't like it may just have to accept that cheering is just an expression of joy and admiration and in moderation should be accepted?
There are, of course, far worse abuses of horses, but that is no defence of ANY abuse, it is simply not the point, the point is that what goes on at Arab shows is seen by many people as ridiculous/abusive we need to sort out which practices fall into which category, abuse must be absolutely condemned and stamped out, silliness needs a cold hard look and friendly discussion. I know that there are grey areas but there always will be, no reason not to try to sort out some of the catastrophe that the breed's public image undoubtedly now is.
I quite simply love this breed of horse, I have no agenda other than that.
Cheers
Lisa |
lisa |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 6:31:57 PM
|
| Well said Lisa |
Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 6:42:42 PM
|
Well said Verena...... I too believe that NO form of abuse, intimidation, or whatever should be condoned and levelled at our wonderful loyal and forgiving Arabians, simply for the purpose of feeding our own selfish pleasure
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
|
        |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 6:46:16 PM
|
I think we have some of the very best handlers/riders/producers on offer in the UK. I've travelled the world and our best handlers are compassionate. I feel that this negativity is downright insulting to them and all they do.
Firstly 'bagging' them - mine have to have haylage stacked on the yard so therefore see flappng plastic all the time. They simply wouldn't react to it and certainly wouldn't be scared of it.
Secondly 'frozen pose' - we do not have this form of stance compared with the States etc. All their classes are judged on the pose, it's unbelieveable to watch. No movement to speak of whatsoever. If you beat a horse you will loose the tail carriage, you will loose their natural exuberance. If it's showing off it's happy !!
Then there's shanking. I hate it. If a handler is seen doing it then owners should take note and not use the individual. Easy, they'd soon stop with no horses to show.
The showing world is an easy target and time after time these 'discussions' take place. Always from the negative point o view. No one ever see's the positive. The Arabian horse is different....thank god !! |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
george
Gold Member
Wales
1353 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 6:53:46 PM
|
 Well I must say that I absolutely love Malvern, I love the atmosphere and if it was just the same as any other horse show or conducted in silence then it just would not be the same, I love it  and apart from the OTT behaviour of the few I would't want it any other way, Arabs "are" a breed apart and anyone giving a negative response to the mere word Arab are usually too ignorant or simply not intelligent enough to handle, understand or own one. I am continually trying to get "non Arab horse people" to come and watch an Arab show as I know for many of them, that will simply be enough to convert them |
George xxx
  |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
amyribbon
New Member
20 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 7:00:32 PM
|
I didn't want to say anything as my first show was Malvern on the Saturday. But I am now an Arab convert and I loved the horses that I saw. They had so much pride in themselves. Gave me GOOSEBUMPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ridden, in hand. Loved them both. And both groups seemed to respond to the crowd too and showed off even more. I loved it. And I love the Arab. 
Amy! |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
vjc
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4952 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 7:05:45 PM
|
| Can i just say, despite it already being said by many others "NO ONE EXPECTS TOTAL SILENCE!!!" the atmospshere will always be electric and there will always be the claps and cheers!!! I personally would not want it any other way! Now come on folks....we all know what is really being moaned about on here so lets not muddy the waters! |
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
nissibay
Gold Member
England
595 Posts |
|
|
Kash
Platinum Member
England
3777 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 7:46:16 PM
|
Originally posted by vjcWell i think we have all aired our opinions well and truly on this thread and one thing stands out to me.... the majority do not like to see the horses shanked, pulled about, or just down right frightened stiff!! Sooo forgive me if i am wrong but we should be seeing a decrease in this abusive behaviour then by the time our next national show is here??? somehow sadly i have reservations. I would just like to add i applaud all you caring arabian owners and producers who respect your horses and show them for what they really are, a truly beautiful equine!!!As for the few that still deem it fit to put this wonderful breed under such pressure in search for stardom SHAME ON YOU
I must admit I wasn't going to comment on this thread but I just can't sit on my hands any longer.
Admittedly I was only at Malvern on Saturday, but I saw no shanking, scared stiff horses or any horse who displayed any abused behaviour and I'd go as far as saying it wasn't as 'noisy' a show as I was expecting!!  Yes there was noise but excessive? No! Not in my opinion anyway.
However, what I did see was some truly beautiful horses who thoroughly enjoyed the noise and hype FS Ronaldo...What a boy
I must also add that I am a 'nobody' and previous to owning my one and only Agonia, I had never been to an Arab show or had anything to do with purebreds.
I've since shown inhand numerous times (and wahoooo we're hopefully doing Towerlands ) and I cross my heart - she LOVES noise, of any type - bagging, shuffling, cheering, tree banging - it makes no difference! It certainly doesn't scare her. Its all about showing off.
So come on, please - I'm sure everyone agrees that cruelty is unnecessary and wrong in ALL of its guises, but was there cruelty at Malvern? Not from what I saw!
Roll on 2011. |
      
Photographs by Emma Maxwell and Peter Grant |
Edited by - Kash on 13 Aug 2010 7:49:38 PM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Nick
Gold Member
United Kingdom
887 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 7:48:15 PM
|
I phoned the Showing editor of the Horse and Hound today, she was running to a deadline and we arranged to talk Tuesday morning,
My main objection this was supposed to be a show report,but turned into a witch hunt,I agree if people have a problem nothing wrong with the Horse and Hound covering the story,Would like to see a cross section of opinion it is good to talk,
But this report was not about our Nationals, it was a cynical way to create attention grabbing headlines,and many people feeling a lot was written before the show was held,
Have a look at the front cover of the magazine, Pregnant Daisy wows at Gatcombe, and Row Grows over GB team selection,More like a tabloid than a premier Horse Magazine,
Nick |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
lottieherts
Silver Member
England
344 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 7:56:55 PM
|
As I have said, the article was not a FAIR representaion of the show.
Why does one have to go in search of 'a story', the reports in H&H used to be factual and an enjoyment to read.
How many non Arab owning public read that article and formed a negative opnion of the Arabian and the in hand showing scene?
I fail to see by standing up for the majority who show in hand can be deemed as sour grapes. There are always two sides to every story.
Anyway, we have all read the article and reacted in our different ways. I hope you all have an enjoyable weekend with you beautiful horses. |
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
linda
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1772 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 8:30:59 PM
|
Towerlands is looming.... so it will be the same old "crap" after that show too!
No wonder the entries are so low and each show is having to extend the closing dates, or cancel,
We won't have any shows to bitch about soon as there won't be any!!!
Lx
|
     |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
amy_southworth
Silver Member
United Kingdom
350 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 9:20:43 PM
|
Roseanne,
If you had took the time to read my post with a little more thoroughness instead of jumping to a quick reponse, my post was not referring to our ridden arabs acting like robots in any way, shape or form....
Actually, my post was focused towards the Inhand arab showing.
Do you think I am not already very well aware of the years of preparation and dedicated training needed to compete successfully in the ridden field!? These two disciplines require a much different focus, I am quite surprised you think I am suggesting they should be encouraged in the way that an inhand horse is.
To add to that, I also stated in my post that I would not wish for arabs to compete any differently than they already do with the majority of kind, genuine owners, whether Inhand or Ridden...
My comments were a direct comparison between our Inhand showing style and the Inhand showing style of other breeds!! And made this way through the different characteristics of each breed!!
I rarely post on controversial topics because there are so many misinterpretations its barely worth having your say...
Posted by nissibay
"HOW THICK can people be to not see WE dont like anything that is remotley cruel or endangering nearby horses and handlers,!! why are people being sarcastic and say "oh lets show them in silence"???????NO ONE HAS SAID THAT!!!! dont beat or scare horses into looking more showy, end of story!!!!!"
Nissibay,
Sorry, are you referring to me in this paragraph?? Are you calling me thick?!
Because I, like many others in recent times are most likely being placed under the wrong, inaccurate and quite frankly very offensive stereotype of participating in cruel acts towards our inhand horses just because we take part competitively in this field!! Because this statement does sound like you are making a very broad assumption that the majority of us beat and scare our horses to produce a showier effect!
Well if that is the case, I'm telling you that any cruelty that does take place is very much the minority, as there is unfortunately in all breeds of horses... which I do not accept under any circumstances. However this is certainly not the case with the majority of us, as I have previously mentioned and I will not have people think that it is the norm, without at least attempting to have my say.
Our horses and Im sure the majority certainly would not show off more or at all for that matter, if they were to be beaten and scared at home or in the show ring....
"Showing off" is a form of positive self expression shown by those enjoying themselves, so the sentence you wrote is a contradiction in itself.
I think I've had my say now, unless someone wishes to write anything more which I find personally offensive.
|
"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams" |
Edited by - amy_southworth on 13 Aug 2010 9:30:30 PM |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 9:29:05 PM
|
Because I, like many others in recent times are most likely being placed under the wrong, inaccurate and quite frankly very offensive stereotype of participating in cruel acts towards our inhand horses just because we take part competitively in this field!! Because this statement does sound like you are making a very broad assumption that the majority of us beat and scare our horses to produce a showier effect!
Well if that is the case, I'm telling you that any cruelty that does take place is very much the minority, as there is unfortunately in all breeds of horses... which I do not accept under any circumstances. However this is certainly not the case with the vast majority of us, as I have previously mentioned and I will not have people think that it is the norm.
Our horses certainly would not show off more or at all for that matter, if we were to beat and scare them....
"Showing off" is a form of positive self expression shown by those enjoying themselves, so the sentence you wrote is a contradiction in itself.
Well said Amy  |
Angel
Passion Arabians
    |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
linda
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1772 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 9:43:15 PM
|
The horses we have owned and bred are used to "Tesco bags" and the "hype" they flag their tails and and snort & blow...& grow in confidence,
& most have gone onto be sensible ridden horses and are NOT scared of bags and noises,
I would prefer to be on the back of one that has experienced this then one that has led a sheltered life!
Lx |
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
tiny
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
161 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 9:44:40 PM
|
| well said Amy but prsonally i'm now gonna go..... |
claire fowler |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
nissibay
Gold Member
England
595 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 10:04:12 PM
|
Hello Amy southworth, Nope never called you thick, just checked back to see what you'd written i hadnt seen ur actual post. i just wrote "how thick can people be?" one person says "they dont mind the cheering and clapping" and then someone else writes "oh whats wrong with the cheering and clapping?" and im just thinking we are all agreeing on that part of it but still arguing about it at the same time
|
Sheen
|
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
basbob
Gold Member
France
1356 Posts |
|
|
MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 11:49:51 PM
|
Originally posted by george Well I must say that I absolutely love Malvern, I love the atmosphere and if it was just the same as any other horse show or conducted in silence then it just would not be the same
Turning this on its head - what about the MAJORITY who liked Malvern as it USED to be? What gives a minority the right to ruin the pleasure of everybody else, who prefer to see beautiful horses given the respect they deserve, to move, develop and extend their trot without being shaken out of their stride by bad behaviour outside of the ring?
Also, too many are blind to the potential for danger - Zenitha, I'm very sorry to hear that your handler was injured, it is shocking that it happened as the result of someone else's irresponsibility.
Just think - it would only take ONE incident of this nature, where a horse or handler was seriously injured or God forbid, killed, as a result of rowdy goings-on left unchecked by the Society, and should someone decide to sue, then that could have ramifications for EVERYONE who shows horses, just not the Arab scene. If a handler was left permanently incapacitated, then the resulting compensation claim would hit *everyone* in the form of raised subs to cover a much-increased Society insurance premium - and that's just for starters!
I was once present at an incident where a 'connection' decided to severely frighten a stallion (it was squatting in fear) in order to increase its 'presence' - this was done in the middle of a public walkway where families with toddlers in buggies were present. Can you imagine what would have happened if the stallion had let fly and killed a child?
It strikes me that there is too much insistence on the right to behave just as people like, and no sense of any responsibility to the wider community - or to the Arabian horse itself.
Keren |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
basbob
Gold Member
France
1356 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 11:59:02 PM
|
Thankfully where I live in SW France Arabs are extremely highly thought of. My trainer in the UK, a fabulous event rider, loved everything about them except for their dish - she preferred the noble nose of a thoroughbred. She enjoyed their intelligence and aptitude and felt arabs could do more.
This topic is absolute fuel for journalists looking for copy! |
  [ |
| Report to Moderator |
|
|
Topic |
|
AHS NATIONAL SHOW H & H "TALKING POINT"
