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Maramoo
Silver Member
England
447 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 10:15:09 AM
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| I think that an event report should be an impartial write-up of the main winners accompanied by photos etc. If H&H want to do an expose on other issues then it should be done as a separate article. |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 10:28:24 AM
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As we all know, this is an issue that returns like a yo-yo at least once a year, but often after the Internationals and Paris too.
If it's an issue that causes so much disagreement and such passion here, among Arab owners, why is anyone surprised that it is interesting to a horsey magazine, in its showing pages?
I am the last person to want bad publicity for the Arab - I've only ever written articles extolling their countless virtues. But when there is a recurring problem with how they are perceived to be presented, especially within the Arab world, we can't expect the controversy to be ignored in favour of a list of winners in about 30 classes.
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Roseanne |
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lottieherts
Silver Member
England
344 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 11:35:47 AM
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I think the report damaging to the breed and to those involved in in hand showing. I particularly took exception to a couple of snipes to the in hand ring I read in the main report, in my opnion completely unnecessary.
I love in hand showing, I have been an avid follower for 16 years. I clap to show my appreciation and I have even been known to cheer at a horse with 20-20-20 trot, multiply me by a couple of hundred and it becomes very noisy and something that the DC's cannot be expected to control. We are human for goodness sake and show our appreciation in the same manner at a variety of events. What is expected of future shows? Silence?
Many of the horses love the atmosphere, some don't but some don't like showing full stop!
It is a MINORITY who use appalling methods to train and show their horses. It really is time to stop tarring everyone with the same brush.
The article was not a fair representation of the show.
I will be writing to H&H to say as much. |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 11:43:45 AM
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IT is not rocket science to work out where this has come from !!! they think we dont know?
who was going to contact ALL the newspapers last year? who was going to start a new AHS of their own and sadly deluded themselves that they could?
who still has it's (odd) member's
visiting this site to stir things up? I rest my case  |
   
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 12:05:09 PM
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Not only visitors Lynda.... Some never left here
As for starting a new society, perhaps these people who kicked this trouble off AGAIN should do so. I doubt they would have many members, their new 'National' show would be a very small, quiet affair and none of the ridden horses could ever go to HOYS as the noise made there would be classed as too abusive and scary!!
Note to self... Report to Welfare Organisation anyone at HOYS if heard screaming and cheering at the Prince Phillip Cup teams!
Next note to self... Remember to take my Vuvuzella to Malvern next year, that will give them something to talk about & report  |
Angel
Passion Arabians
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 12:14:59 PM
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Lottieherts the applause and cheering isn't the problem I don't think. Any enthusiasts at a sporting event are expected to applaud.
I think people should stick to what the issue really is or is reported to be at this show and others of the bigger Arab shows (and I was in the ridden ring at Malvern and saw none of the inhand showing I'm afraid) which is 'outside interference' in the form of people shaking trees, flinging lunge lines around, using whips with bags and bottles with stones in to pep up the horses' presence and movement. I don't think applause is out of order!!
We do need to be careful about how we respond to the H & H article. It's no good writing letters that show people defending behaviour that is hard to defend. (And that doesn't mean decent, enthusiastic applause!) It will only make the owners, producers, handlers and defenders more of a laughing stock if people start accusing the magazine of bad, selective reporting. It will look like sour grapes, not like the clean promotion of a fantastic breed!
Far better a considered response, asking for the opportunity to acknowledge that some people find the new global, dramatic fashion for inhand showing unhelpful, and to point out the Arab's many advantages and successes in performance as well as appearance, pointing out the other aspects of the Nationals, the showjumping, dressage, Western and part-bred/Anglo classes and the inclusion of Crabbet and Endurance horses there too. |
Roseanne |
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BOULTONS
Silver Member
United Kingdom
380 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 12:21:14 PM
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As in-hand classes are, I presume, for brood mares, stallions and youngstock, with the idea that they are to breed or develop in to riding horses so I can see how the world outside of Arabs is amazed. Yes, people do shout encouragement to horses or ponies that are racing but are there any other in-hand classes where this happens? What is with the exaggerated posing - legs stretched out and head in the sky? You would not want a riding horse to do that so why a youngster or breeding animal? Do we want Arabs in this country who move more like a hackney than an Arab with a floating and comfortable action?
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vjc
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4952 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 12:27:25 PM
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well said Roseanne. I do not think anyone minds appreciation shown at the ringside, but picking up bins and rattling them, running up and down at the ringside waving a whip in the air in a threatening manner and kicking/banging the metal barriers before the class was even judged is definately NOT appreciation of the horse in the ring or the breed!!!! and before any of that is denied i DID see that! and promptly moved away from the circus!!!
As for horses racing they are doing what is natural... running!!! not spinning in circles and being wound up then held back against their flight/flight instinct. |
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Edited by - vjc on 13 Aug 2010 12:30:34 PM |
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Zenitha
Gold Member
England
1078 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 12:43:04 PM
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I really am confused as to why the people who don't like the excessive stirring up (and by excessive I mean shaking tree branches, whipping the leaves, floor and anything else that will make a remotely scarey noise, NOT cheering and clapping) -are being criticised. It says IN THE RULES that excessive stimulation of the horse is not allowed, so why are people wrong for being unhappy when it happens ? The reason the same people 'moan' every year, is because every year, it still goes on, in blatant defiance of the rules !
Are the people who prefer to show their animals in a more dignified manner in the wrong ? Do we have to subject our own animals to all these methods of stirring up, just to prepare them for what they may face in the ring ?
Yes, there are good owners, good handlers and trainers out there. Not everyone is guilty of the issues raised in Horse & Hound - those people should have nothing to feel defensive about, perhaps annoyance at the few giving the majority a bad name ?
Even when the DC's were REPEATEDLY asking the 'assisting' branch shakers and whippers in the collecting ring to desist from their behaviour, they ignored them and carried on, causing my colt to rear in terror, landing a foreleg on his handler as he came down.She later received first aid. It could have been worse.
I don't believe H&H have it in for the Arab breed, or their owners. They are reporting just as they did about Rolkur, and any other issues anywhere within the horse world. It is not the breed they are criticising, it is the methods by which some are shown ! Surely, rather than complain that they have reported about it, we should be aiming to clean up our actions, so that next year when they come back, they will not only see the well run show of this year and the beautiful Arabs, but horses handled and shown with dignity and the respect they deserve !
A good Arab does not need 'outside assistance' to float into that ring and show us all how beautiful he is - it would be lovely to show the rest of the world that  |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
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vjc
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4952 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 12:53:45 PM
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| Well i shall still go to malvern as i love the national show and want to support it, hopefully i will be taking a partbred next year. I just pray for the sake of the Arabian horse and its image (which is becoming very flakey thanks to the stupidy of some folk) that this wholely riddiculous trend that some see fit to follow tones down. Maybe someone should video the crowd that persist in this clownish behaviour and play it back to them!!! apart from the awful effect they have on the horses they just look so damn silly, and i have got to say not as distinguished as their beautiful horses. |
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Zarena
Bronze Member
189 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 2:01:20 PM
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There'll be no more copies of the H and H bought by me either. Of course they should have printed a picture of Fiona's ridden Supreme Champion. Of course they should have printed pictures of other Champions and written about people's achievements with their horses. What is this publication? A cross between the Sun and the Mail? Shame on you H&H!
If there is a (knowledgeable?)reporter who really thought she had witnessed something untoward (rather than attending with a prior agenda),then a properly researched article might have been the way forward at a later date if anything proven. To attack a National breed show in this way (and everyone exhibiting an in-hand horse) is nothing short of scurrilous. |
South Shropshire |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 2:02:53 PM
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For goodness sake, we are British!! All the problems stem back to when the fashion fads of USA and other Continental countries, were adopted as the way we produce and exhibit our In Hand Arabians.
Do British Breeders and Exhibitors need to follow like a flock of sheep?? Lets get back to the traditional and natural way of presenting our beautiful Arabians for ALL to enjoy.
Applause...well no one is knocking that...and the horses seem to enjoy audience appreciation BUT the collecting ring and ringside interference....and all
that go with it, is ridiculous and downright DANGEROUS!! Plastic bags on the end of ever longer whips, tree branches being waved and dragged, umbrellas, stones in bottles...whatever next!! Very stupid and is generally unacceptable but guess nothing will be done until someone gets seriously injured.
The Rules are clearly written in the Show Schedule and a signature on the Show entry form, deems that the Rules have been read!! So, no excuses and why are those rules completely blatantly ignored by those "few" who think they are "above" complying.
It is not the H & H reporter exaggerating what was clearly there for all to see!!! If it DID NOT happen, surely it could not have been reported on!!
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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Edited by - BabsR on 13 Aug 2010 3:16:12 PM |
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sazzlepants71
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3536 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 2:13:09 PM
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After reading the article again this lunchtime , I have to agree with Jane's commments as well, maybe in a strange way people will understand that the arab horse is beautiful and super intelligent and sadly its us, the humans that handle them that ruin their image..
the question is are we really really that desperate for the red rosette???
It all seems so very sad and the victims as usual are the very breed we profess to love ... I am not talking specifically about malvern just generally about showing.
Not really sure were we go from here to be honest, although correct me if I am wrong
Isnt the Wessex show promoting the classical method of showing at their next show? lets hope that H&H gets their 'reporter' down there and gives a true impression of how we can create a new 'trend' and stop the bad press!! |
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zelus
Bronze Member
England
137 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 2:17:48 PM
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| tjtops are you the author of the article in the Horse and Hound...? |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 2:18:52 PM
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Says the person who made a spectacle at BACS last year telling someone to shut up because they cheered for their horse!!
Babs I will assume you would rather we show our horses in silence, perhaps behind closed doors with no audience allowed? |
Angel
Passion Arabians
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Edited by - angel2002 on 13 Aug 2010 2:21:27 PM |
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natntaz
Platinum Member
England
2919 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 2:39:00 PM
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I wasn't going to post on this thread because i think we could all keep bitching at each other. I have always loved in hand showing and
I do clap and cheer when i see a horse that loves to be shown. I also hate to see some of the horses that have been shanked and look petrified of the person at the end of the lead. Arab horses are not all show horses. Some naturally will float around and give it all the snort and blow and some will just not. I don't think it is a true representation of them if we have to make them frightened to get them to move. I wasn't at malvern so i cant say but i have seen it at a lot of other shows when some of these animals are just so strung up because of what has been used to make them the flighty show horse. This is so far from most of the time what Arabs are like in there home environment if they are treated like any other horses. I do agree that we could do with more positive reactions to what Arabs can do, but i also think that you will always have people who may not like them and will happily tell you how bad they are. I don't believe there is any such thing as a bad Arab usually bad owners ! I dont agree with brushing things under the carpet so to speak as nothing will
get done about the bad people who show. |
   
Natalie Pix. Essex. Tariq ibn Radfan and Taroub |
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simbba
Silver Member
299 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 2:52:05 PM
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This was my first year at the nationals spectating, i stayed for Thursday and Friday and really enjoyed it and big congrats to everyonethe horses were amazing But i my self witnessed all of the above of the out side interference at the entrance and round the stand!Zenitha i did see what happened to your young handler and glad that she is oki was amazed that this was going on in front of the DC the person was asked to stop shaking the branches and soon as back was turned just carried on!But all said i loved the show,and its not put me off going again and hopefully take my crabbet filly foal next year I am all for cheering and clapping to show my appreciation for the most beautiful horse that has been put on this earth |
www.xiviersarabianpalominos.com |
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kimzi
Gold Member
865 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 3:12:25 PM
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| Nat god bless you, as always the voice of reason. The only way we are going to get the more positive reaction is by going out there and doing the performance stuff and i don't mean ridden showing or endurance (yes the showjumping and dressage fraternity have a good snigger at these spheres) but by going out there and trying to prove it in the mainstream sports just like evie and taragun proving that they are not a fluke and that the majority of arabs can do it. Also we have to stop spouting off that the arabian breed is the very best of all we have to prove it, for me a horse is a horse and regardless of breed if it has genuine talent then it is the best. I have had other breeds who were to die for.Change of subject I was at royal ascot this year and apart from the fact that its heading down chav street nothing else has changed, and i'm pretty sure none of the jockeys or horses would have taken any notice of the crowd noise, its pretty noisey on the turf when there are no spectators. |
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basbob
Gold Member
France
1356 Posts |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 4:10:46 PM
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Having witnessed the attendants with long whip and plastic bag attached, waving round their yearling at the showring entrance, before being asked to stop by the Steward, same then started whooping and banging in the gallery.....yes I did ask them to be quiet!! Big difference between appreciative applause and the din they were making!!
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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amy_southworth
Silver Member
United Kingdom
350 Posts |
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Jamana
Gold Member
England
682 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 5:18:05 PM
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I am not an 'Arab person'. I am however a person who likes Arabs and I am saddened by how the minority of in-hand show people have managed to trash the image of a wonderful breed. There was a time when the Arab was considered'the great improver' yet if you suggest to a standard horse owner that you are going to cover your mare with an Arab stallion you are almost considered a laughing stock. Recently I was offered the chance to stand a beautiful high % Crabbet stallion. I turned it down, as from a quick 'survey' of breeders that I know, no-one would use him. I said that he is exactly the type they SHOULD be using and can offer so much, but one major point came up time and again, "I can't advertise the fact it is by an Arab" How terribly sad.
When you take this negativity of the breed in general and then you couple it with the methods employed in the main ring at the National Breed show and then in light of responses from some Al'ers I can only see further divisions in the wider horse world regarding the breed.
To take the view that because 'the reporter knew nothing about it' in some way justifies or negates the problem is extraordinary! Does EVERY spectator at the show know all about 'it'?, does this imply that this type of behaviour is condoned? If your argument is that the reporter knew nothing about then lets hear from someone who does, give a full justification for the actions. To only take a sarcastic tone in any replies generally indicates a lack of any real defence. I was completely staggered to read on another thread about a similar thing on the showing forum that one persons attitude was "if you don't like it then don't watch"!!!!!!  In a breed where supply far exceeds demand this is surely a very short-termist strategy. Where are Arab owners of the future going to be inspired?, where are people going to aspire to compete? Where is any sense of welcome or inclusion for new owners?
At a local stallion parade 10 years ago there was an Arab stallion who was presented in the in-hand manner. Stretched pose, head up, fast trotting on a long rein, whirling around and a long whip for his nose to touch, this finished with the handler turning him loose in the arena and chasing him around to show his movement(and struggling to catch him). The largely Sport Horse audience were more than a little bemused  You could have heard a pin drop. I heard several outside afterwards laughing about how ridiculous the 'Arab people' were. I felt like shaking them, but also the owner of the stallion who presented him in such a way.Full marks for taking him and trying to appeal to a wider market, but surely it would have made more sense to tailor the presentation to the audience and show him the same manner as the other 25 stallions. I still hear comments about it now, "and that woman with the feather on her whip......"
There are always exceptions to the rule and there are many who show in a restrained and successful way, but to be so outraged by a report in H&H that did have some valid points is rather silly. Why not view it as a fantastic platform to have a reasoned discussion about it, justify the methods, show how many wonderful in hand winners become fabulous ridden friends. USE this publicity as a way to promote the breed, not allow in-fighting and catty sarcastic comments to let a golden opportunity to set the record straight go past in a blur of negativity. Remember ALL publicity is GOOD publicity. |
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vjc
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4952 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 5:22:11 PM
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| Well i think we have all aired our opinions well and truly on this thread and one thing stands out to me.... the majority do not like to see the horses shanked, pulled about, or just down right frightened stiff!! Sooo forgive me if i am wrong but we should be seeing a decrease in this abusive behaviour then by the time our next national show is here??? somehow sadly i have reservations. I would just like to add i applaud all you caring arabian owners and producers who respect your horses and show them for what they really are, a truly beautiful equine!!!As for the few that still deem it fit to put this wonderful breed under such pressure in search for stardom SHAME ON YOU |
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AHS NATIONAL SHOW H & H "TALKING POINT"
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