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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
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weirton
Gold Member
873 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 10:42:27 PM
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tjtops,
Following your post I re-read the article thinking I'd somehow missed the AA/PB report. Apart from one line on the ridden CH. there was absolutely nothing about all the in hand classes/light horse/coloureds/palominos as stated in my original posting. In addition to which there were mistakes in the AA/PB results.
Jean |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 10:43:29 PM
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There's a lot of wisdom in Susie (Phoenixbruka)'s post.
Whether people like it or not, the in-hand showing of Arabs is the prime focus the horse is given in the UK these days. Whose fault that is, we don't know.
What we do know is that the current fashion for top inhand showing is dramatic, posed, excitable and enhanced through training/handling and often, deliberate outside interference. Anyone who disagrees is in denial.
This is what the outside world sees - so why deny it? If you do it, and promote it, you have to stand by what you are enjoying and promoting not try to defend yourself as better than the Welshies or hunters. There's loads of cruelty and inappropriate behaviour going on in many, many equestrian fields. Look at show ponies, Rollkur etc!
Susie (to paraphrase her) poses the question 'why aren't ridden Arabs good enough to be in the main ring?' and that question's not lost on the wider world either. It's a demonstration that all ridden and performance classes happen away from the main stands and audience.
Inhand showing is currently the priority in Arab showing, not ridden showing or performance.
Inhand showing is done in a modern way that some people don't like. But it IS the priority within much of the breeding and owning Arab world. It's the majority choice and it's a fact.
It's also a fact that a lot of people don't like that situation, and don't believe the Arab should be portrayed in that way, since the horse is so superior to many other breeds in performance. Inhand owners are defensive, and ridden enthusiasts are angry the truth about the breed's potential is being distorted.
It seems there is a schism that is VERY damaging to the breed. How many times have we discussed this?
The current situation needs to be accepted, or it should be addressed. But who is able to take the challenge on? |
Roseanne |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 10:46:29 PM
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Well said Nick!!!
 Oops...Am I allowed to clap and whoop? |
Angel
Passion Arabians
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Ziadomira
Platinum Member
England
1635 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 10:50:45 PM
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I am not commenting on the report in the H & H re Malvern but the situation concerening lack of Arab Show report is another matter. Chris James always emailed me about the report for the group show I help to run. When I discovered she was no longer writing for them I contacted H & H direct and they have asked for a report. I gather they do not have a dedicated Arab reporter.
There was a report on the Classic Show by the show secretary.
Zia
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vanbro
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
93 Posts |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 11:05:14 PM
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| There is an economic side to all this of course - all the time the Arab remains generally unpopular then they will tend to command far lower prices. I could have bought 3 of Lily (GR Amaretto x Taffetta) for what my friend paid for a shire x warmblood x ? coloured gelding from Ireland.... So from a selfish point of view I should encourage people to continue to perpetuate the image of the Arab as a 'twirling poodle'..... |
  Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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frankie
Silver Member
England
269 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 11:10:31 PM
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tjtops...
" "it is disgusting that the pb's anglos, ridden etc was not commented on."
But they were!"
BUT THEY WEREN'T...I am looking at your article now you mention the aa/pb ridden champion being Telynau The Real McCoy...I think you will find that he was the PART BRED champion, there was a SEPERATE ANGLO championship which was actually won by He's a Diamond, who has infact won this title six times undersaddle, surely this in itself in an achievement to be heralded?
Regardless of what your or anybodys elses opinion is on our National show is that exactly an opinion...what one person thinks is acceptable another wont...this is life! Regardless of what goes on and whether people agree with it or not, I think the recent report is totally unfair and unjustified, you focused on the minority, tarred us with the same brush and made assumptions, when infact there were sooo many positive points you failed to mention!!
Every single society or genre of equestrianism out there as others have highlighted previously, have aspects that may be considered by some as close to the mark. One point not mentioned is the ponies...how many of them spend their time pinned with sidereins in the stable, get to a show an adult gets on, gives them a 'sort out' by the time the kid gets on the pony is too scared to look sideways! This doesn't get mentioned though!!
I do believe that our Arabs should be put on pedestal, there is not another breed so brave, so loyal, so intelligent, so beautiful and so versatile as the arabs and they should be praised for that...
Frankie |
    
www.knowle-farm-arabians.com |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 11:13:38 PM
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| Originally posted by Roseanne
(Edit)What we do know is that the current fashion for top inhand showing is dramatic, posed, excitable and enhanced through training/handling and often, deliberate outside interference. Anyone who disagrees is in denial.
This is what the outside world sees - so why deny it? If you do it, and promote it, you have to stand by what you are enjoying and promoting not try to defend yourself as better than the Welshies or hunters. There's loads of cruelty and inappropriate behaviour going on in many, many equestrian fields. Look at show ponies, Rollkur etc!
Very well said Roseanne. Lots of people definitely do seem to be in denial of the fact that the *majority* of equestrians -INSIDE as well as outside the breed - find their behaviour unacceptable, however much *they* enjoy it.
And trying to justify the unacceptable is not going to make anyone find it more palatable - it just diminishes the standing of those defending the indefensible!
I recently had the pleasure of experiencing one of the most positive of promotions for the Arabian horse. It reminded me of the qualities that drew me to the breed in the first place, and in fact, reduced me to tears. It reminded me what was present in the breed when I first encountered it - and what is MISSING NOW, thanks to the "circus" of anti-social behaviour surrounding the in-hand ring.
Keren
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 11:21:58 PM
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I do think we in the Arab world have to realise that we will be judged by people who 'visit' our shows and will remember/report what makes the biggest impression on them.
That's not likely to be the quiet, sedate horses and ponies in the outside rings or the obedient dressage horses.
It's far more likely to be the more dramatic, fast and furious stallions etc in the grandstand arena.
We can't expect reporters in any story to do more than focus on the most exotic impression they are deliberately given. |
Roseanne |
Edited by - Roseanne on 12 Aug 2010 11:22:30 PM |
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basbob
Gold Member
France
1356 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2010 : 11:56:03 PM
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I was at a AQHA international show a few years ago when a colt had his willy whipped for dropping it in a class - not nice.
I also know a lady who said she was sending her yearling arab off to a showing yard abroad where she felt the filly would be "abused, only a bit", but she wanted to win and said that this was what you had to do to succeed. No matter the breed when money enters the equation morality slips. Sad. But I do believe the UK trainers are sweet to their horses. Sadly journalists only have to go on the showing forum here to read the disgust from some arabian enthusiasts.
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Nick
Gold Member
United Kingdom
887 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 12:31:15 AM
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Well Keren here we go again if you are going to quote me use my whole post, Not a PR trick, taking the bit that suits you,
Does that mean you agree with the rest of my post,
Reading the report again i noticed the line last term, typical of the report you have at school,
And keren who is the Horse and Hound to give the AHS full notice they would be under close scrutiny,
Or put another way the reporter came there looking for negatives and not a true reflection on the show,
Shame no mention of the Junior fillies, The largest age group in the show,or the Junior geldings, everyone telling us not enough are gelded,and when you do they do not warrant a mention from the Horse and Hound,
Shame the reporter had not paid attention to the Horses and not trying her hardest to get derogatory remarks to continue a negative vain,
Maybe the Real World Horse people should remember people in glass houses should not throw stones,
Nick |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 01:24:19 AM
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Why shouldn't the Horse & Hound put the AHS and the show under full scrutiny? After last year's accusations of excessive brutality it was only to be expected. If there was nothing to see that was questionable this year then the journalist would not have been able to file her copy. I believe it is called freedom of the press, and I doubt any of it was libellous. I hardly think the H&H can be accused of being anti-Arab, ther was a really nice double page spread on a showing family who also drove their Arabs (unfortunately can't remember their name at the moment) just a few months ago.
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Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 01:26:06 AM
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Sorry somehow I double posted
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Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
Edited by - Callisto on 13 Aug 2010 01:28:00 AM |
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tiny
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
161 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 02:23:31 AM
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| Well said Nick it's about time some of these issues were adressed. i was at royal ascot this year and the noise that came up through the grandatand as the horses came on the home straight was mind blowing i have never heard anything like it and i have sat in a football stadium of thousands of cheering fans!! I also remember years ago when we had were showing a hunter standing outside the ring of a 4 year old class and my horse looking quite puny in comparison to the others and i thought he looked a little on the plump side at home and mum asking the guy with us what the future could pssibly be for these horses to which he replied "the knackers yard!" he went on to explain how many of these horses had been fed up on barley since babies to prepare for this one class. and as for the cobs..... i think i'll stick to what i do thanks and if the writer of the article doesn't like like i suggest she lumps it, to be polite. this person has written an article about something she obviously knows nothing about and it's quite clear that she has never had the pleasure of owning, breeding, training or showing one of these magnificent horses. having owned hunters, cobs and partbreds in the past i wouldn't change my boys and girls for the world. |
claire fowler |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
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Lorna
Bronze Member
England
98 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 08:07:02 AM
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I think that everyone has missed the point, if you were thinking of buying a top class show dog and were undecided of your preferred breed you would go to Crufts. If you were thinking of buying a top class arab, you would go to the Nationals.
This show is our 'shop window', as are all county shows. Due to the current economic climate, surely we need to attract buyers, it's not H & H's fault they have had to report how out in-hand pure breds are shown. Perhaps if we were not a laughing stock in the equine world, more ordinary, horse people and potential buyers would appreciate our wonderful breed.
I'm not knocking our wonderful ridden horses and anglo and part breds, who are flying the flag every day, in all disciplines. We have got the clean up our act, where will the market be for all pure bred foals that are being produced, not all foals bred are top class show animals and if we 'shoot ourselves in the foot' by the continued bad press, where are the foals going to end up!!!!!!
I had my first arab in 1971 and have bred pure, anglo and part-breds and feel so sad that we are destroying our breeds' reputation.
It's a crying shame that H & H did not make more of the ridden classes and anglos & part-breds. Perhaps, they have done the in-hand arab showing world a favour, COME ON, THIS IS WAKE UP TIME!
Lorna |
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Varaina
Gold Member
United Kingdom
606 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 08:13:30 AM
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Oh dear Oh dear Keren, are you planning on contacting the nationals newspapers then?????  |
Fiona Grant-Chivers |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 09:05:42 AM
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No surprise there Fiona!! I suppose you have the numbers of the 'National Tabloids' on speed-dial Keren!!!!!
Do you and a handful of others have an alterior motive here I wonder  |
Angel
Passion Arabians
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vjc
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4952 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 09:07:33 AM
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| I am finding this thread terribly sad, we should all have a common interest whether we have purebreds ,anglo`s or partbreds, and that common interest should be the stunning arabian!!! and most of all its welfare!!!! I starting using arabians in my breeding because i loved what i saw,... intelligence, stunning movement,fabulous conformation, and most of all how easy they were to train. WELLLL If you were at our national show and looked at the way some... and i emphasise the word some!!! handled and presented ( i will not say show as i do not believe you could call it that!) their horses it was with no thought for the future of their horse or its breed! I totally admire the folk who show the arabian horse traditionally with respect for our most noble of breeds. Come on you shouting, hollering, and hooping lot, just tone it down a bit, there are better ways to show your appreciation of the arabian horse without creating such bad press. |
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Edited by - vjc on 13 Aug 2010 09:51:36 AM |
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Kazzy
Platinum Member
England
3335 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 09:38:42 AM
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Well thats the last time I buy the H & H as far as I am concerned its a gutter press horse magazine equivelant to The Sun newspaper!!
How TJTops can come on here and justify what shes put is outrageous, come on do tell us who put you upto this, I have a feeling I know anyway and if you want to follow those beleivers then god help you!!!!
The show was very smoothly run with many many excellent horses in hand and under saddle, and you seek to publicise a very small minority of handlers and their entourage and cant be bothered putting in your magazine what Malvern is really all about its shocking.
So from now on it will sit on my newsagents shelf to gather dust becuase I wont be buying it and I will tell others not to buy it aswell.
Tally ho!!!
Janet |
     
Sunny Cheshire |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 09:48:09 AM
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Very well put Janet....
Very sad when the same members of the AHS go to the press with the sole intention of causing trouble.....
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Angel
Passion Arabians
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vjc
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4952 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 09:54:00 AM
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Sorry folks, but weed out the bad apples then???? there is not smoke without fire i`m afraid  |
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moatside
Platinum Member
England
3224 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 10:07:33 AM
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I did not attend Malvern so cannot pass comment ..... I did, however, attend some of the spring Group Shows - without a doubt there was some uncalled for winding up of horses, colts especially. The behaviour of some made for unpleasant viewing and did put other competitors in danger of flying hooves.
The noise and bags etc would probably not bother my mare but I still find it uncalled for. I would much rather see a nice enthusiastic trot rather than a horse breaking pace and spinning.
To say that it is not going on is akin to the behaviour of an ostrich - how can we as Arab owners promote them as the sane and sensible breed that they are when the general public witness the bizarre methods some of us employ in the show ring??? |
www.spanglefish.com/kasanarhythmbeads/ |
Edited by - moatside on 13 Aug 2010 10:19:40 AM |
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AHS NATIONAL SHOW H & H "TALKING POINT"
