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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
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xsara
Gold Member
822 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Feb 2010 : 9:41:03 PM
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| How awful poor man must have been struggling for some time horse are so unpredictable it wouldn't take much for them to kill you even if they dont mean it something we often forget about when working with them every day |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2010 : 9:50:15 PM
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Very scarey.
Many years ago I heard of an ex racehorse who killed it's ower. It bit him badly in the neck and severed either the vein or artery, not sure which. It was thought that the horse had suffered something like a brain haemorrhage as it was not a nasty horse.
They are very big, powerful animals.
Barbara |
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Cate
Platinum Member
Scotland
1785 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2010 : 10:17:59 PM
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My sister lives near Melbourne, Australia, and a stallion killed its owner, but the man had been bad to the horse, can't remember what he did to it and it waited its time and killed him. She said it was the talk of the riding clubs out there./
Not saying this chap did anything to this horse as the article says it was a mean horse. Why keep it entire if it's mean? Pretty scary stuff. I was always taught no matter how good a stallion is never trust them, or turn ones back on them.
I have come across gelding who attacked. One was at a riding school in London where the woman worked the horses almost till they dropped. This particular horse called Crispin got loose on the ride and charged with its mouth wide open anyone who came near. Me being a silly young girl went with the older girls to see him and have never been so scared in my life. I hid behind a tree!! Another gelding was in a riding school in Glasgow. When in his stable he charge with teeth bared and mouth wide open. I was told in confidence that the head girl (BHSAI qualified) disliked this horse and when she backed him was not nice to him in any way and this is why he was like that. A young girl persuaded the owner to sell him to her and he never looked back. I saw him at a farm and he was a totally different horse. Kindness was all he needed.
So unfortunately these things do happen.
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susan p
Gold Member
Scotland
915 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2010 : 11:42:09 PM
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I think the clue as to what went wrong here,is the line that he went to feed it armed with a stick,hmm[ |
www.blackislearabians.com
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the ways its animals are treated
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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2010 : 08:46:57 AM
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The Horse & Hound link has been removed but if you google it you can read peoples comments which in themselves were concerning. They talked of numerous Thoroughbred stallionss that were 'difficult' including St Simon. There was a reference to Monty Roberts regarding a stallion that was too dangerous to handle so he ran into the breeding shed, bred a mare and then was shooed out again.....who sent a mare to this horse !!!
It is interesting that the UK is the only country which doesn't allow breeding from stallions with one testicle (licensing/vetting) but others allow to breed on this genetic defect. With it can come all sorts of temperament issues.
I have never written about Sinan Bey, who had one testicle, but I came under alot of criticism for having him destroyed. I decided not to even trying to geld him as I didn't want to read this article which could have been so easily him. It brings it all back and it could've been avoided !! |
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carole ferguson
Silver Member
United Kingdom
457 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2010 : 09:33:20 AM
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I know of two incidents where mares have attacked a person who abused them
In one case - the mare threw the girl off and either kicked her in the chest - or trampled her. The girl died - but I gather the mare was not really blamed for the incident.
The other one was a talented show jumping mare - who I expect had gone sour - and she attacked the man who had knocked her about - and he was found unconsious in her stable with a very badly broken leg.
They don't have to be stallions to retaliate for bad treatment. |
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Callisto
Platinum Member
6905 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2010 : 09:35:04 AM
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I couldn't find the link to the horse and hound forum on this one (just a rather terrible report about an arabian stallion who killed a man who had been committing bestiality with it - the police knew what had happened because it had been videoed - at least the poor horse, and other animals who had been assaulted in the same way, were still alive in the report I read. Apparently it's not illegal in Washington State... ).
Anyway, another possibility is that the horse had a brain tumour - we had a livery tb mare that behaved perfectly normally, until she cornered my sister's poor little 30 yr old arab gelding (who she had previously been extremely affectionate towards) and broke his shoulder. Naturally we were distraught and she was removed. These incidents became more frequent and more violent,including towards her owner, she was destroyed and the PM revealed a brain tumour.
My friend's mare was attacked by a rig, her injuries were terrible. What was unforgiveable was that he had done it before, but the owner said nothing and still put him out with 2 mares. The behaviour of some people is inexplicable.
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  Zahkira (GR Amaretto x Taffetta)
Linda
East Sussex |
Edited by - Callisto on 06 Feb 2010 09:39:16 AM |
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lisa rachel
Gold Member
Wales
831 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2010 : 10:13:54 AM
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Poor man, though as has been said if you need a stick to go near a horse..... well, it says it all really.
I have been in the position of being asked to blood test a dangerous (but very successful) tb stallion while the owner held a gun ready in case he attacked me. He had a race and pen into which he was let to cover mares, could be handled by one person but had nearly killed a man a few years previously. It seemed from the story that this stallion had been goaded in the past.
Yesterday I was asked to see a stallion by another practice, the vet said the stallion was vicious and dangerous. The owner warned us that he was very agressive with vets and impossible to inject.(Phil and I both went so one of us could drive the other's corpse back ). We just had a nice chat with the horse, didn't tell him we were vets, stroked him did an examination then I quietly sneaked out a blood sample while Phil fed him polos. The reason this stallion is vicious to vets is that he apparently had had a severe painful reaction to a vaccine in the past.
My point is in my experience ALMOST all dangerous behaviour towards people is fear driven, it doesn't mean its any the less dangerous but does put the responsibility for it at the feet of all of us who handle and especially break and train horses. It is also a reason why I always try to avoid using intramuscular antibiotic injections if possible especially on youngsters who haven't learned to trust people.
Cheers
Lisa
ps I remember as a small child walking up onto a rough bit of mountain to feed a tethered pony, who knocked me to the ground and attacked me (we found out later that he was vicious and that was why he was tethered, (doh!) in fact were we told he had a brain tumour but don't know if this was certain). My poor parents and grandparents watched this happen from the backyard of our terraced house on the opposite side of the valley. They were frantic until they realised I was OK, then I think my Dad was secretly hoping the incident would put me off horses.....didn't happen,sorry Dad
pps My parents were not negligent, I was, thank god, a child in the good old days when children were free range. |
lisa |
Edited by - lisa rachel on 06 Feb 2010 10:55:57 AM |
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jackiedo
Gold Member
England
1370 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2010 : 10:16:27 AM
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| On another note.... my ex YO got in between 2 hannovarian cross colts who were having a kicking match, got hit and was dragged out. He started weeing blood, so was taken to hospital, where they found the injury had caused bruising on his kidneys, but also discovered that one of them had a tumour which had been symptomless, that was then removed, so in his case, he was very lucky to have been kicked that day |
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alistair leslie
Gold Member
England
1036 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2010 : 11:01:13 AM
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What do you think stabling a stallion 24/7 does to thier mind? |
    
blue moon |
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Kazzy
Platinum Member
England
3335 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2010 : 11:04:19 AM
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How sad.
You are right Delyth about stallions born with one testicle they are very aggresive, my little darling was born with one testicle and I had a nightmare with him from about 3 months old, he was horrid!! He was very very aggressive at times and I was at my wits end with him, when he got to be a yearling I had had enough and the vet said the other testicle would never drop now and he was sent away to horspital to be operated on. Luckily for me they found it straight it, I cant remember the proper name for it but it was perched just inside and they were able to get at it.
When i got him there I had to sign a statement that if they couldnt find the testicle straight away they needed my persmission for explority operation work which in some cases could end up with a billf or thousands of pounds!!
Like I said luckily for me and him they found it immediately and it only cost me £400.00
Janet |
     
Sunny Cheshire |
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Misshana
Silver Member
England
449 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2010 : 11:40:36 AM
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My boys second testicle didn't drop till he was nearly 2! We were getting really worried about the castration bill. As said before, the Vets dont know where its retained until they operate. Anyone with a late developer though, dont give up hope too soon as the testicle can drop later as was the case with my boy and we had a normal castration.
I remember years ago now a well know Arabian breeder who was attacked by her previously gentle stallion. That I believe was a brain tumor. |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2010 : 11:47:04 AM
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I believe if you treat horses with respect and kindness they will always be kind and respectful themselves , most that are spiteful have been treated badly in the past , (arabs have a great memory) yes Alistair unfortunately that does terrible things to their minds, I can only begin to imagine what it must be like for a herding animal who's instinct is to be with others of his kind , shut away 24/7 (some not even seeing the light of day) I know of a son of my mare who attacked people for that very reason!. he wasnt born nasty its people who do the damage |
   
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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Kazzy
Platinum Member
England
3335 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2010 : 12:32:40 PM
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You are right there Lynda, I dont think there is ever a bad/nasty animal born its how they are handled and brought up that turns them nasty.
Kazzy was naughty because apparently when they have a retained testicle they produce more testostrone making them more of a handful and er a bit naughty aswell
Janet |
Sunny Cheshire |
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karen d
Gold Member
United Kingdom
847 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2010 : 12:41:51 PM
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we had in incident last year where a friends part bred stallion 'turned' for absolutely no reason, well not to us humans anyway.
she had bred him, he had never known anything but kindness and correct handling. lived out happily with his ladies, never being shut up for hours on end.
he was broken to ride and drive and did all of this with never any hesitation or upset
one day he just turned on one of his mares and her foal, savagly killing the mare and trying to kill the foal. even when she was dead he was still on top of her pounding her into the ground.
when he was finally dragged off the poor thing, the look in his eye was dreadful. it was as though he had completly gone in the head.
hours later he was still the same and there was sadly on one outcome for him
he didnt have a brain tumour or any other illness.
what makes these stallions turn
we will never know, but must always have in our minds that they are big strong powerful animals, driven by testosterone and should always be treated with the utmost of respect
very sad story for all concerned |
www.gkjarabians.co.uk |
Edited by - karen d on 06 Feb 2010 12:43:02 PM |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2010 : 1:17:24 PM
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Crimbo now in his 20th year has always been gentle and kind , I could no sooner think of him turning ,than myself turning on my own child ! what makes them turn then remains a mystery for sure! I am thankful everyday that my horses would sooner lick you to death  |
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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Delyth
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1425 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2010 : 1:27:30 PM
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Just to confirm Sinan Bey was three years old when he was destroyed and we had tried so many things including waiting for 'it' to drop. He simply only had one testicle and the result was both devastating and dangerous.
Now temperament is all to me. Prior to Sinan Bey all our boys had been just that 'boys'. Ffatal is nothing short of an angel. When I look back Sinan Bey, even though he was 2/3 years old, was incredibly respectful of Assad. He'd still baby mouth when he walked by, if he was in the paddock he'd even drop to his knees. Assad had left the farm 6 weeks before the attack. It was an incredibly sad time and an incident which could have affected me for ever. I have Ffatal and GR Amaretto to thank for getting MY trust back !! |
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lisa rachel
Gold Member
Wales
831 Posts |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2010 : 6:08:59 PM
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Yes Solitary confinement a severe punishment to an animal who has done no wrong! whos only fault is to be beautiful, loyal and kind !, and we call ourselves civilised? |
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2010 : 6:12:16 PM
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I think a few do cope but it is cruel and unnatural to keep any horse stabled 24/7 unless there is a very good reason for doing so; that doesn't mean that you don't have any turnout for the horse. If you haven't got the facilities to keep it properly then you shouldn't have it.
My three boys all have their own paddocks in sight of the mares and each other and go out every day although the older one would be quite happy to stay in when the weather is bad. He was in for 3 months once under vets orders as when he could have gone out his field was flooded for a couple of weeks. He was quite happy apart from wanting to play with me , pretty scarey in a stable, and picking me up by the back of my anorak when I was mucking him out!!!! That was a great game. As I am only little and he is almost 16 hands he had no trouble lifting me.
As I live near Newmarket I know what some of the racehorses do to people; very scarey. Several years ago a stallion was having his daily in-hand walk when he turned and bit his "man" and took the front of his abdomen off. Luckily there were other around who heard him scream . The only thing that saved his life was that he had a very big, fat beer belly otherwise he would have been killed.
I remember your problems with Sinan Bey, Delyth, a dreadful experience. How is your colt, I think he is 2 this year?
Barbara |
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linda
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1772 Posts |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2010 : 6:22:28 PM
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I think a lot of people are attracted to horses and riding because they have 'power' issues in themselves. The majority of horses will put up with a hell of a lot of 'abuse' of their natural instincts and behaviour because humans are in control of their whereabouts and foodstuffs. And as everyone's said, ignorance or foolish handling of horses - no matter how well-meaning - can ruin them for good.
Someone I knew very well, was bitten suddenly and without any warning, by a perfectly well behaved, well handled stallion as she walked up the yard past his box. It was a serious bite on the neck, that if it had been a couple of centimetres to one side would have been her artery and certain death. He never did anything like it again and hadn't before. It was just like a naughty nip/bite that got her in the wrong place! Sobering thought...
Edited to say, I've heard many stories of stallions kept inside in dreadful conditions of solitary confinement. I think it's unspeakable and of course it's torture of an animal that should, in its natural situation, be wandering around on grass plains grazing from the ground, not confined to a 12 x 12 box. It doesn't bear thinking about what it must do to their poor minds. |
Roseanne |
Edited by - Roseanne on 06 Feb 2010 6:24:32 PM |
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Clutha
Bronze Member
155 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2010 : 8:51:58 PM
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I own a lovely gentle mare, but she did get very foal proud. She saw off a couple of people who were disrespectful to her when she her young filly at foot. One was a vet & should have known better. He went into her paddock (when I wasn't there) to do the foals ID papers. Thing was he was too busy posing to the student he had with him & walked up to the foal without checking in with mum first! BIG mistake!
Apparently he exited very swifly followed by gnashing teeth & did the rest of the id from the other side of the fence.
She's never been abused, but she will protect her foal. |
Pip |
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xsara
Gold Member
822 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2010 : 10:29:45 PM
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Some horses are nasty we had a horse at work which was a nasty piece of work. he used to bite kick and i especially couldnt work with him as he for some reason hated me i think it was because i totally ignored his behaviour which he didnt like. I did get a few bites from him which he caught me even trying to dodge him. he ended up breaking his leg but was best thing for him as was no good and couldn't be rehomed. He was also dangerous to ride very nappy and reared all too handy.
And honey a few years ago got very aggresive for some reason. it got to the point that we wouldn't let any one into the stable and when we went in had to put her to back of stable walk with our backs to the stable wall facing her at all times put feed in corner of stable and leave before we would let her move. No idea what set it off but we moved to a different yard and the behaviour stopped. We thought either the person at yard was hitting her or else possibly rats were making her food aggressive. |
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jaybird
Gold Member
France
1192 Posts |
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Reality Check
