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firstlady
Gold Member
Wales
767 Posts |
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Lizbuf
Bronze Member
England
106 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Jan 2010 : 9:35:39 PM
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Hi!!
I have a 2 year old gelding who is 86% crabbet, Sunfield Aristos (Ibn Silver/ Bint Arishma). I only got him about 5 months ago but he is such a lovely young horse with the sweetest of temperements, he is chestnut with 4 white legs and has the most beautiful white mane i have ever seen   |
Liz x
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2010 : 9:48:24 PM
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I wish there were classes for Old English as well as Crabbet: Crabbet is not the be-all and end all of British breeding - there were stonking asil imports at other studs such as Fedaan at Courthouse and Nuhra at Barton Lodge...unfortunately their owners were not as good at publicising them as Lady Wentworth was with her horses.
So here's a cheer for horses of Old English lines and breeders besides Crabbet who were responsible for this astounding heritage - my stud is founded on Old English crossed with proven performance Egyptian lines for the best of both worlds: correctness and 'do-ability' plus dryness and refinement.
Keren |
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Cate
Platinum Member
Scotland
1785 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2010 : 9:52:47 PM
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| Keren, you have written what I was trying to say in my last post. Thank you you've explained far better than me. |
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ginger horse
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1215 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2010 : 11:56:46 PM
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Im sending Cameo rose (IMAD / GOLD ROSEIRIES)http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/cameo+rose4
to rusleem ths year.. not sure of the English or crabbet % the foal will be but im sure it will be mega.... |
    
..........JARVIS.................HARRY.............................CERIS...........Keyser soze.....
I can resist anything except temptation !! |
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georgiauk
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2605 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 12:04:51 AM
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A few OE's up in the North East 8-)
Mares:
Georgia Satellite 1984
75% Arab 67% Crabbet by Mehriz ex Tina by Razireb
Bakeeta 1990
81.4% Crabbet by Aurelian ex Shameelah
Llite Theeda 2005
99.44% Crabbet by Shaded Silver ex Tegan by Prince Sadik
Llite Milagro 2005
56.72% Crabbet by Marcipan ex Bakeeta
Stallion:
Sibelius 1990
93.51% Crabbet by Ghibli ex Jacana
Gelding:
Llite Baroud Ibn Gomel 2007
61% Crabbet by Gomel ex Bakeeta
The Crabbet/OE fans are out there hopefully doing their stuff quietly ;-)
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tamila
Platinum Member
England
2532 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 06:46:22 AM
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I have Roxaana (Nashaal x Roxyana) who is 97.26% Crabbet and old english. I bought her to breed at least one foal only after a small problem the recession came in and I also found that I could not cope with a foal. It is so sad as her first son by Mareschal had to be pts as he broke his spine and her other son Aurontes by Aurelian is a gelding.
Roxaana is a very beautiful old fashioned mare who has been wasted but through no fault of her own. Her bloodlines are fantastic and very old.
I also had Akram Gold who is 99.?% Crabbet/Old English who after breeding 2 foals to Tamila 86.55% Crabbet (who traces back to Nuhra) I had to geld as Crabbet stock were not in fashion at the time. I think this may have happened to many people especially the small breeders who did not have the space aor money to keep them entire and carry on breeding. I have been castigsated many times recently for gelding him but I had no choice as he was frustrated. I aslo gelded his son Ramak Gold 92.?% Crabbet for the same reasons.
I only hope that there are some younger horses left who will, when this recession is over, go one to perpetuate these lines as we are certainly on danger of losing them permanently. Tina Cooke and I were only talking about this yesterday. |
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Treasure
Silver Member
England
442 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 07:00:34 AM
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I totally agree that it's not all about Crabbet but other Old English bloodlines. The Courthouse horses were exquisite and of a very different type from the generally bigger built Crabbets and Barton Lodge horses. Many studs were built on these lines and so many foreign studs were too - the big breeding programmes in the USA, Russia, Australia to name a few. These days it seems to be if it's a foreign import it must be new and exotic but some of them are moving further away from the sound, strong, ancient breed that has been its greatness for centuries. But we mustn't close our minds to improving the old bloodlines as certainly Lady W et al would have done that but very carefully. As with most things it's a balance  . |
Carolyn
Johaara Arabians |
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Vygoda
Platinum Member
United Arab Emirates
1627 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 07:30:15 AM
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At Al Waha, we are breeding Russians, Crabbet/GSB, and a third pool I call Modern (using the blood of Maleik El Kheil, Psynergy, Master Design, Gazal El Shaab, etc). Whilst we do cross the pools, every year we try to breed some mares ‘straight’ within each group.
We have Daas (99. something % Crabbet) and Spearmint (Courthouse) at stud, and we have frozen semen for Spearmint though so far he is in excellent shape and very fertile.
As we had no Nuhra blood, we bought the lovely Gold Elyse who traces to her in tail female, and her colt by Daas (Ethaar) won an open foal class at Malvern last year – Elyse is in foal to him again.
Too, to keep these most precious Crabbet/GSB lines going, I have leased Summertime Blues from Elizabeth and Mrs Archer (last year Summer had a lovely filly by Daas and is in foal to him again), and have arranged to lease a Crabbet mare from Jean Peck this year, again to breed to Daas.
Keep up the good work please continuing our English Heritage  .
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kathleen
Platinum Member
England
1835 Posts |
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debs
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 09:07:36 AM
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Interesting topic... I was looking for crabbet/old english last year, but fell in love with Al Emeer, he is only 35%...(thanks to Bia updating All breeds) when I look back in his pedigree there seems to be lots of crabbet, all very confusing to me....
Can we have more pic's please??? |
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kastell
Silver Member
France
430 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 10:16:06 AM
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Hi all, I agree that Old English & GSB Arabs are important as well as the straight Crabbets, however remember that the straight Crabbets are definitely not numerous either! I have 3 straight Crabbets 2 fillies by Indian Banner x Wings of Pearl & a mare Dominita by Silver Blue Ludo x Domino Rose in foal to Winged Saint.
Here in France there are several OE / GSB & Courthouse stallions, the French National Stud stand Milora Park Blue Fire, an Australian import Endurance stallion who I believe is Crabbet GSB & carries lines that are very rare / lost to the UK. Also you have 3 Courthouse stallions Ramoth a half brother to Spearmint, Siroco Courthouse (Saltram x Rosa Maria) & Scipion Courthouse (although all of Courthouse breeding carries polish lines). I know of at least 5 other OE stallions as well.
Cate I think there is a stallion in the UK with the same tail female line as Celestial Silver (Mahawiliyah, which is also rare?) With Nurha lines via Darjeel he's called Chianti (El Dajani x Leila Bibi - El Dajani even though by Darjeel was classed a straight Crabbet as was bred by Crabbet!). |
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Lindsay
Gold Member
Scotland
944 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 10:28:06 AM
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Here is my girl taken this summer
and the wonderful African Emir
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Paidir dóibhsean le fiántas ina gcroíthe acu, atá coinnithe i gcaighin |
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Cate
Platinum Member
Scotland
1785 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 11:10:09 AM
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Thanks for the information Kastell much appreciated.
Also just love African Emir and if he had lived near me I most certainly would have used him. If his photo is anything to go by he is one lovely horse...love his topline and neck. Something I notice about a lot of Crabbet horses is they have a very low set tail with quarters that look almost apple rumped. |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
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leiat8
Gold Member
590 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 11:19:30 AM
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i love a good excuse to chuck some piccies on.lol. here is sunny(silver sun light) thanx to Linda updating me i can say she is 100% old English but not quite sure crabbet percentage
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Casper, Hannah, Hector, Bracken, Fargo |
Edited by - leiat8 on 05 Jan 2010 11:39:57 AM |
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azeer
Silver Member
373 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 11:28:26 AM
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Building on from Jane's comments, I am fortunate enough to have the fabulous Tabara by Palubnik X Queen's Topaz (X dancing Queen), bred by Al-waha. She is a beautiful girl that exudes type and has won internationally in-hand and at BNCs and is now a champion under saddle.
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Libby Frost
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4711 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 12:05:54 PM
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| one stallion i allways wanted to visit with a view to using was Eaglescliffe, he allways looked fantastic in the photographs, is he still alive?? |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 12:09:36 PM
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thing is, as everyone else has pretty much been saying, i am definately not saying there is anything wrong with outcrossing our english bloodlines, in fact one of my fav cross's is crabbet/old english x egytpian! and i am a big fan of outcrossing and getting that hybred vigour(sp)
But, as Jane is already doing, i wish more people would breed them straight within their own genepool, it all comes down to, leaving a genepool for the younger (ie ME)LOL generation.
In the end will just have a diluted genepool, that our future breeders, won't have anything left to outcross.
I've always been a fan of the tail female line to Nuhra, and try as i might, could i find one with an all english/crabbet pedigree!
No, not for me to buy, or when i did, typically i was skint! Jane knabbed her, but i am glad she did, a real treat for me to see her at malvern too! I'm so happy that jane is breeding her to her own gorjus boys!
Some people do have these mares, hidden away, some know what they got, some dont.
In the ahs stud book vol 20, i have counted approx, 28 females of mostly crabbet/ old english lines with tail female line going back to nuhra, some may be borderline with egyptain ect lines.
Some are elderly, some not breeding, only a handful of those have bred in within the genepool. I'll do their offspring later, how many from those 28 females have had foals within the genepool-we can all have a guessing game?
Of course i am using the Nuhra line, because a) i like it! and b) it's a good example.
Other lines are suffering too.
Spearmint must surely be the only courthouse left? I've never even seen him, but i have seen his stock, i just love spearmint!
Of course there are the pure crabbet lines too, particulary with the sengoran/naseel lines, Di Ellis is doing a craccking job keeping these lines going along with Alexia Ross, and Gunni.
However, i do feel that the crabbet genepool is just a bit safer than our old english, and i don't mean that loosely. |
pagey |
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kastell
Silver Member
France
430 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 12:16:12 PM
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Well done Lindsay a great choice Emir is just gorgeous! Leiat8 your mare is beautiful, going by the figures given on the allbreedpedigree site she is 99.70703% Crabbet, however to check this you can download a Crabbet Percentage booklet from the Crabbet Organisation which shows you how to work out percentages, or you can order a percentage certificate from them. Azeer your mare is beautiful too! I love the Russian x Crabbet combination, also the Straight Egyptian (SO) x as well! I think it's great that Vygoda does these, plus also keeps the lines pure as well as not to loose them for the future.
The Crabbet Organisation did a GSB & Old English Directory back in 2006 have they done a new one as yet? |
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Clutha
Bronze Member
155 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 12:26:50 PM
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| I have an advanced mare, Clutha who is about 96% Crabbet, 100% GSB (i.e. Old English), (sorry, at work, can't remember the decimal places), by Cheyl Logans lovely international stallion Khairho, out of Sherfah (Hanif x Sirella) who herself the Jaspar trophy for the best 3 competative ride results in a year, very proud of the girl. Last year she gave me a dark chestnut filly by the 100% Crabbet stallion Indian Idyll (highly recommend him for a maiden mare as so patient with his wives), making her 98% / 100%, very pale flaxen mane & tail, white face, flesh marks around nose, overo (white belly patches either side)& robiano (roan flecking through coat)! Vet needed new red pen after filling out her identity document! These lines are very alive & being preserved not only in UK but abroad as well. If you are looking for Crabbet stallions, get a copy of the Crabbet Journal from The Crabbet Organisation. Will find stallion details & also photos of youngstock so you can see what they produce. Winter issue due out immenently. Also if you would like to show, the regional AHS shows are running Crabbet classes (75%+ to qualify certified by The Crabbet Organisation, but don't need to be a member to enter), in hand & ridden, with the first place horses going through to the finals at the national AHS finals at Malvern. |
Pip |
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kastell
Silver Member
France
430 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 12:29:14 PM
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Hi Nikki we posted at the same time, no Spearmint is not the only Courthouse left alive, maybe yes in the UK but there are at least 3 PURE Courthouse stallions in France, Ramoth is 29 this year, Siroco is 20 & Scipion is 9. If no-one uses them with the Crabbet / OE horses they too will be gone forever & unfortunately I don't have a suitable mare to send to them, plus 2 are hundreds of miles away from me, so I don't have the means either. Being young(ish!) too would love to see Crabbets & OE/GSB around when I'm old for the next generation!! |
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kathleen
Platinum Member
England
1835 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 2:00:32 PM
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photos at last sorry its taken me all day
Alliya
![]() 
Masliya
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Masliya is now 6 months old and Alliya is having a rest before she goes out on loan localy to have one more foal. One day i would love to put her back to a Imad son for me |
http://www.jollyfryer.com/ Great British Fish & Chips
susan.oliver70@ntlworld.com
    
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Sirius
Bronze Member
England
102 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 2:17:43 PM
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We're trying!
Our Old English entire boys:
Winged Saint (1990), 100% Crabbet, El Santo / Silver Blue Wings, here permanently;
Halal (1989), 100% Crabbet, reimported for 2010 only, and full brother to the late Hanson;
Seren Hanau (2008), 100% Crabbet, Hanson / Shadowed Gold, not yet pubed but staying here once he does assuming he breeds OK;
Seren Hanag (2008), 100% Crabbet, Hanson / Silihah, also not yet pubed but staying here once he does assuming he breeds OK;
Binley Winged Spirit (2009), 100% Crabbet, Winged Saint / Binley Silvern Grace, just turned yearling but again staying here assuming he breeds OK;
Seren Hanos (2009), 100% Crabbet, Hanson / Silihah, just finishing weaning and sold to a USA endurance home who intend to keep him entire and stand him publicly, full brother to Seren Hanag so not a loss to the national gene pool!;
Our Old English girls:
Silver Ingot (1984), 100% Crabbet, Sadi / Silver Mantle;
Winter Queen (1989), 100% GSB, about 93.76% Crabbet(our calculation!), Silvern Idyll / Queen of Diamonds;
Shadowed Gold (1991), 100% Crabbet, St. John / Magic's Moonshadow;
Silihah (1992), 100% Crabbet, Silver Fahd / Malihah;
Seren Canopus Hanifa (1996), 100% Crabbet, Hanson / Hamatan;
Silver Serendipity (2006), 100% Crabbet, Silver Ingot / Winged Saint;
Seren Bellatrix Malika (2008), 100% GSB, about 96.88% Crabbet, Hanson / Winter Queen;
Seren Hanita (2008), 100% Crabbet, Hanson / Dominita(France).
We haven't stopped breeding for the recession, and aren't going to, as we are very worried about the fall in numbers too.
The Crabbet Organisation still publish the GSB and Old English Directory annually. Caroline wants everyone with Old English / GSB / Crabbet horses to send in their details to build up the biggest picture of which are where.
We are still playing with our home breeding programme for 2010 coverings:
We were originally intending to skip 2010 with Hanson in favour of trialing his sons, but the amazing opportunity to have Halal here for just one year means that the mares who were going to be covered by them should really be with him.
We are keeping Winged Saint's and Hanson/Halal's programmes as separate as possible, but obviously they can't cover their own daughters / nieces / half sisters...
Happy New Year,
Dom and Jan
Here they are in the snow these last couple of weeks:
Winged Saint, the true Bedouin:
Halal:
Mares, geldings, yearlings 2yos:
yearlings 2yos:
foals yearlings:
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Edited by - Sirius on 05 Jan 2010 2:36:31 PM |
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Bex
Gold Member
Wales
559 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2010 : 3:23:50 PM
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What lovely pictures.
Dom I love all your gang!
Here is Halals shadow by Halal he is 86% crabbet and he is the most fantastic horse
Becci |
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Our English Heritage-where are they?
