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Nedds71
Gold Member
Wales
679 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Jun 2009 : 8:56:56 PM
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The 17yr old wasn't there.
I would imagine Auvation went home, think his owners wanted more money than anyone wanted to pay.
The mare's were in good condition although they needed a hoof trim, they were unbothered by the whole situation. |
BJ
www.bmjarabians.co.uk
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navaho621
Gold Member
Wales
510 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2009 : 8:57:37 PM
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| Can i just be clear, the number i have is for the MARES only, sadly i dont know the number for the stallion! |
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Tomos
Gold Member
Wales
940 Posts |
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Nedds71
Gold Member
Wales
679 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2009 : 9:20:55 PM
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Hi Mandy,
He needed some weight, but his feet were good, he looked stiff behind but then he is 19. He had tack on and would no doubt had looked worse without. He was very sweet to talk too, and not stressy like some horses there. |
BJ
www.bmjarabians.co.uk
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Lila
Gold Member
Netherlands
1097 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2009 : 9:24:59 PM
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Just talked to the owner of the mares, she does not know where they went, she did not go along to the sale!!! For more details PM me. And again she is not the owner of Auvation.
Monique |
M. Lankhaar |
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precious
Platinum Member
England
2253 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2009 : 10:19:11 PM
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| what a shame, i could never send my horse to sale (i wouldnt even sell them) hope someone nice bought them |
     
Gemma Thompson
Birmingham West Midlands
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Gerri
Platinum Member
England
4211 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2009 : 10:44:34 AM
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If that lady was not the owner of the stallion, who was???? do we know that he definitely went home, poor boy |
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CINDERS
Gold Member
England
750 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2009 : 10:55:39 AM
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Of course no-one wantsto send their horse to a sale but this thread in my mind causes people in trouble to shy away from asking for help.
They then end up in desperate straights and maybe this is their only option. Without knowing the persons circumstances surely some compassion is needed to encourage others in similar circumstances to come forward and ask for help before their problems becomes so great that their choices no longer exists.
Some of the attitudes displayed here are so holier than thou yet the holders of said attitudes have a multitude of excuses as to why they are not able to help
With horses not being bought and rescue centres full to bursting lets tryto be a bit more understanding of those less fortunate than ourselvs
Yvonne
With horses not being bought and rescue centres full to bursting |
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weirton
Gold Member
873 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2009 : 11:25:08 AM
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Well, I have said my piece before on this subject and I agree with Cinders wholeheartedly. If you don't know the facts you have no right to judge.
Yes it is a shame it has come to this again but these are uncertain times we live in. Have some thought for how the owners of these horses might be feeling.
Also LLanybydder is no worse than lots of other sales around the country and we don't keep hearing about them. There are just a lot of 'Arab' people living around there. What about all the other horses and ponies going through the marts, have they no feelings?
I know a lot of ponies who have gone through LLanybydder in the past who would probably have just been left to starve and instead they have found great homes and gone on to do wonderful jobs.
Whilst I don't condone selling old horses, sometimes there is no alternative except to PTS and that's a very difficult thing to do so at least we can give these horses a chance.
Jean
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Edited by - weirton on 26 Jun 2009 11:38:00 AM |
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CINDERS
Gold Member
England
750 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2009 : 12:46:35 PM
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Thank you Weirton and like you I do not condone selling old horses.
The problem is further compounded by the cost of PTS and disposal. Someone in already dire straits may not even be able to afford this.
Some while ago I read about a scheme in Texas where people in these circumstances could get help to cover this cost, maybe some of the larger welfare organisations should look at providing similar or even better look to help people whose difficulties are temporary - maybe by provision of food etc. Obviously there would be the possibility of the sytem being abused but surely it is cheaper to provide food etc and keep animals in their own homes than to take the animals in and the money saved could be used for those truly awful cases where prosecution is currently not a possibility due to the cost.
Yvonne |
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Jamana
Gold Member
England
682 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2009 : 12:58:07 PM
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I agree Jean and Cinders. It is easy to sit in judgement, but harder to actually DO something about it. Indeed many of us may feel we would like to help these, and other, horses that go through sales, but our own finances may prevent us. Others finances may be so bad as to lead to these horses being in the sales.
How many people posting on this thread about the plight of said horses have bred foals this year? ( I don't know,I am only putting the question to think about ) If they hadn't bred a foal may they not have room for one of these oldies? The moral maze has many twists, it is not a clear cut right/wrong, good/bad situation.
How many people proudly announce the birth of their new foal on the New Arrival section and only a few weeks later we see it on the sales page. Nothing wrong in that of course, but why are these adverts normally ended with the words "only for as as I can't keep colts" ? or " For sale as I have it's mother/father/sister etc"? When I see this I always think well why did you breed it then, were you not aware you have a 50% chance of a colt, or if you have all those relatives why breed another. Why can't people be honest and just admit that they are breeding to sell? Perhaps it is harder to sit in judgement of others if they are in that postion?
I want to be clear, this IS NOT and attack on anyone, least of all any particular poster on this thread. Just my own thoughts |
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Edited by - Jamana on 26 Jun 2009 1:00:26 PM |
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navaho621
Gold Member
Wales
510 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2009 : 2:14:30 PM
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| The thing is i do feel for the other horses put through the sales, i knew several that were entered for this months sale, one being the mum of our Welsh cob filly. I dont mention any of these other horse purely because it is an Arab horse website. I would love to be in a position to offer some of these a home & i have in the past, unfortuantely i havnt the space to take any more on at the moment. |
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Karon
Gold Member
England
1411 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2009 : 2:25:34 PM
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| If they hadn't bred a foal may they not have room for one of these oldies?
Sadly it's not always as simple as that. I offered to take on an old horse earlier this year, sadly that seems to have fallen through but I did also offer to take on two other mares - one through Llanybydder, and one other who also got sorted elsewhere. But I rent my land, and would have to do a lot of reorganising to take on a stallion. I'd happily do that - and the older horse I offered a home to was a stallion - but I daresay a lot of people who would like to help are also on livery yards and the cost of having another horse may well be too much. I know round here DIY livery is around £100 per horse per month - that plus feed, hay, farrier etc does mount up quickly. I am able to offer because a) I have just been made redundant and am seriously loaded - briefly! and b) am in a position to buy my own land (then I will be seriously broke again! Fortunately I have just been offered a job).
Personally, I could never send a horse to a sale because of the uncertain future of them. Where I am, Beeston sale is the sale of "choice" but I don't know whether that's better or worse than Llanbydder - and I certainly wouldn't send an older horse there. Far too much chance of it being sold for meat - better to have it PTS at home no matter how dire your circumstances are. And yes, I've been in that position of having to have a sick horse PTS (OK, she wouldn't have been able to be sold anyway) and having very little money left for the disposal  I'd spent a fortune on vet treatment for her, but was still able to have her PTS at home rather than send her for meat. I know how difficult it can be - I've spent enough time doing 2 jobs to keep my horses and would do it again if I had to. |
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Gerri
Platinum Member
England
4211 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2009 : 3:20:49 PM
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| Sorry but maybe I have been reading another thread????? I did not see any holier than thou attitude from anyone, I think all the posts on here, myself included wanted to help and were pulling together to help, thats my view on it for what its worth. I have bought from many a sale, but never sold at a sale, since working alongside dealers and meat men (my ex husband clients mainly)and seen the other end of the sale. People do what they have to do to safegaurd their equine and if they HAVE to go to the sale, put a reserve on that is above the meat mans means but only as a last resort. Please don't jump on people for caring or wanting to rally round to safegaurd any animal. Whether you beleive me or not isw up to you but this thread really upset me, to the point of not sleeping and feeling quite upset as I am sure other people on here felt, for goodness sake |
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Offira
Platinum Member
England
1583 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2009 : 3:53:18 PM
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Well said Gerri and the others. It is enormously upsetting to not be able to help these horses.
As Karon says, if you keep your horses on a livery yard, even DIY as mine are, the moment you walk in with another the bills rack up. Costs have gone through the roof, I'm not surprised people can't afford them anymore. My salary just can't keep having huge holes punched into it every month. I've had horses for 30 years and never minded the cost, but as I handed over £161 to my farrier the other day for a set and 3 trims I thought, I'm not sure how much longer I can go on like this let alone take on any extra.
People have taken the high moral ground on previous posts about selling but not this one. I think we are all aware people are losing their jobs. The problem is there is never enough time between the catalogue going out and the sale (usually 1 day) and I don't think anyone could ever have imagined Auvation or Shulay Montana ending up there.
I was recently offered two yearlings, the owner bred them and wanted to move them on because she had 4 new foals due this year. They haven't sold even though they are very nice - there just isn't the market for them. You do have to wonder what the point of it all is sometimes, from her original 2 horses at the start she now 10 and can't cope (hardly surprising mind).
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Edited by - Offira on 26 Jun 2009 4:07:41 PM |
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bridie
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2395 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2009 : 3:54:28 PM
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Have to agree with you Gerri....I have re-read the thread back and cannot find any "holier than thou" comments!!!
As an arabian forum we are always going to get a reaction when oldies are up for auction.....and yes Llanybidder is one of the worst sales. What is so wrong with people being concerned about their uncertain future?
As has been mentioned in this thread the catalogue is only available a few days before the sale so this has a bearing on who can get there, book time off work etc etc.
People have tried to help, tried to contact owner.......previous owner, sale to bid.
Because it was brought to our attention on here we were aware of these horses going to the sale.......
What are we to do in future when we see an arab in the catalogue? Ignore it for fear of driving someone away who may need help?
We are all entitled to our opinion on a public forum....... |
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CINDERS
Gold Member
England
750 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2009 : 4:43:05 PM
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Of course it is right to be concerned and of course you are entitled to your opinion on a public forum but the fact that it is public should make one think about the consequences of what one says and how it may be interpreted. I have reread the thread and there is an underlying condemnation of those who for whatever reason put their horses through a sale, without it seems to me full knowledge of the events leading up to this decision. And it seem a plethora of excuses as to why people cannot help. We all have financial constraints that prevent us from offering help but until we realise that there are too many horses for the homes available and maybe put a moratorium on our breeding the situation will not improve.
I am pretty certain that for the vast majority the decision to put the horse through a sale is after months of struggling to find an alternative and I would rather see people be able to come onto this site and ask for help before the event than feel too afraid for fear of condemnation from the "I'd never put my horse though a sale" brigade
I've only sold two horses in my time so I do not speak from experience but I do know of cases where people have hidden their troubles for fear of the condemnation they will receive from other and at the end of the day their horses then suffer.
Better surely to work with the sellers and the auctioneers. Slightly different I know but I have built up a relationship with our local rescue society and they will now let me know if an arab appears on their books, likewise with Siamese Cats and the Blue Cross and RSPCA, could someone not try to build this kind of relationship with the orgnaises of these sales so that we, may through the AHS could get advice of arabs being offered prior to catalogue publication
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2009 : 4:43:43 PM
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Far from driving people away who may otherwise seek help, I think a thread such as this may show people that if they were to ask for help there are plenty of people who will give it. Sending horses to a sale is certainly not asking for help, and, given the short time span between catalogue and sale, it is not giving anyone who may want to help a chance to. The element of desperation that comes across here is because no one knew these horses needed help till it was too late to help them.
There are no circumstances at all, ever, that could ever befall me that would make me send any horse to a sale. That, to my mind, is total abdication of responsibilty. But if I really, really had to I would shout it from the rooftops that my horses needed help. |
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Edited by - Zan on 26 Jun 2009 4:47:34 PM |
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Lila
Gold Member
Netherlands
1097 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2009 : 4:50:59 PM
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To Jean, Cinders and Jamana,
A. I do not breed for the reason i do not want to sell, haven't had a foal in years and the last one is four and still here and not going anywhere.
B. I am in Holland so can not come to the sale, but have prevented and helped another mare before, she did not go to the sale due to AL and was sold to a friend in the UK.
C. I have my own land and can always take on rescues, my horses are here with us at home, I can see them from my window.
D. Why put people of, the horses mentioned were already in the catalogue, we only try to help to prevent them going to the sale by buying them before the sale or going there and buy them there.
Further more the mares were only four and eight years old and had issues according to the seller.One had, had two foals of which one had died plus she had a lump on her belly, the other was hand reared and she thought that if she had a foal history would repeat, so she was sold as non broodmare.
She did not go along to the sale and had no idea where they were sold to. The reason they were sold was, winters coming on and I have to many and they were not so useful.
I did not want to write this, but after these offencive answers i thought I had to.
Monique |
M. Lankhaar |
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scooter1
Bronze Member
Wales
94 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2009 : 5:16:53 PM
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i am not judging anyone. i am still trying to find out where the stallion auvation went to, because a home awaits him . i am well mandy thanks for asking.
fran |
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Lila
Gold Member
Netherlands
1097 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2009 : 5:18:58 PM
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Hi Fran,
I have no idea, but you can call the auctioneers, the Evan brothers, they might know??
Monique |
M. Lankhaar |
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Jamana
Gold Member
England
682 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2009 : 5:46:45 PM
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I think people are missing the point that I (and Cinders and Jean, though I wouldn't wish to put words into their mouths) am making. I am NOT saying that everyone who expressed concern should take on a horse from a sale. I know how costly horses are, I own them! I am only saying that sometimes people find it easy to jump to one view or standpoint and that isn't necessarily the most balanced and fair view. I also think that it is easy to not accept that as breeders you are part of the problem. ( I am meaning you in a broad general sense, not specifically) People that are saying how expensive horses are to keep and not knowing how much extra they can continue to pay out, what would happen to your own horses if you couldn't afford them any more? Can you guarantee that you could sell them in the time that you had before the money ran out? Arabs esp are not selling quickly and we can see from this thread alone how stretched people are keeping what they already have.
Lila, as you haven't bred a foal for four years and then only for you to keep then you are obv NOT who my comments were aimed at. I thought I was clear about the type of breeders I meant.
As I am trying to get people to be open minded about others situations, I am not likely to be castigating those who showed concern and were genuinely worried for the fate of these animals. It just rankles when posters are so quick to jump to conclusions, yet see themselves as whiter than white. (again not aimed specifically at posters on this thread, more a general observation)
As far as foreseeing situations that you may or may not find yourselves in regarding your horses, there are such things as very great intentions and well meaning feelings, but you can never say never. |
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Edited by - Jamana on 26 Jun 2009 5:49:15 PM |
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Lila
Gold Member
Netherlands
1097 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2009 : 6:42:08 PM
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No never say never, but all my horses are older from 17 till 26 and only two younger ones, one four and one ten. And i would work my but of to keep them, if i had no money left they will be PTS.
Monique |
M. Lankhaar |
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Gerri
Platinum Member
England
4211 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2009 : 6:43:09 PM
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Okay I can see where everyone is coming from and you all have valid points, but I think everyone is affected by these horses going to the sale and re-acted in different ways and its good to see things from all different angles. I just know what is on the other side of the sale for the poor horses who don't find there good homes, we had a good friend who was a horse slaughterer, and he was a lovely man, but refused point blank to go to the sales and at the same time have to destroy young healthy horses as the owner wished it as was so afraid of where they would end up, and it killed him to have to do it, but also said to me that IF there was any chance of them ending up at a horse sale where they would be bought there he would rather do the job there and then and often used to try talking the owners into letting him find a good home for them if they were fit and healthy, he was a genuinely lovely guy......despite his job!!!!! but vets will take staged payments until people are in a position to pay it completely and I know that people on here would bend over backwards to help another in whatever way they could as who knows anyone of us could be in the same position one day, none of us knows what tomorrow brings no matter how well prepared or secure we are today, there is no shame in having hard times, its part of life and I for one would not be too proud to ask any of you for help if it meant keeping my dear horses safe and I would help any of you in any way I could even if it meant a temporary hardship for me as I beleive in Karma, what goes around comes around, and yes there are alot of people who don't have lots of money that go to the sales as they can get a horse cheaply, as they have the home and the love, just don't have a chunk of money for the initial purchase and usually they are the best homes as the money they have goes on the horses, I have seen that over and over again, and yes we all have to think seriously about breeding anymore horses at this moment in time, but for some people breeding horses is their livlihood, as much as we don't like it, the sad thing is when they don't sell, they have extra mouths to feed and the money does not go so far and all the animals suffer, so lets not judge one another or see bad in one another or get cross with one another, lets all join together as we are all on the same side and we are all on this site because every last one of us loves the horse ESPECIALLY the Arabian, but that does not mean we love any other breed any less it just means that we all share a personal preference |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2009 : 7:12:44 PM
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Well yes, I can say never as far as sending a horse to a sale is concerned. If I fell on incredibly hard times I would move heaven and earth to keep them. If that failed, as already mentioned, I would shout from the rooftops that they needed help, and if I wasn't 110% sure that help was in their best interests, I would pts. Then I would probably do the same to myself because it would be the end of the world |
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Llanybydder again
