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trinity
Gold Member
Scotland
1126 Posts |
 Posted - 17 May 2008 : 12:58:41 PM
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| Wow, I've got shivers down my spine after reading your thoughts on Akhira. I feel we have committed a cardinal sin in not using him sooner, however, hopefully we can now rectify this. His conformation is outstanding and he has the most amazing temperament. I was not a huge Arab fan, until I started working with this boy. Every professional who has dealt with him comments on his temperament and he is a joy to be with. I'm slowly bringing him on, under saddle with a view to doing some dressage in order to get him out and seen. The Arab mare is Escoza /www.allbreedpedigree.com/escosza. I think her bloodlines are pretty good, but your thoughts on this match are welcomed. Thank you so much for replying. |
Beck |
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Kazhak
Silver Member
Australia
352 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2008 : 3:21:43 PM
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Hi egbert thanx for the info on the rare Arab mare I mentioned, Takritya
Ralvon Pilgrim was one of the best moving Arabians this Country at least will ever see, (sorry I'm biased) although he had his faults one of which was a long back however (i'm not bagging him) the quality he passed on to his offspring and consequently their offspring was not tarnished by that,
I must apologise about my post about My Miniature Running horse Salaa as I know So much about him and his bloodlines and the quality that is on both his Non Arabian Tail female line and His Sire lines, My Father bred Him and his Mother and his father and his welsh Grandmother, I'm very Proud of him and love him to bits, he has so much of the Arabian Flair for life, & I hope will be my Endurance Stallion for many years to come, He is as yet Untested in the Endurance world and has only Completed 1 40 km ride so far, I hope to have him doing 80's at least by next year and then its that and beyond,
I will try and find some pics to post of Salaa's parents in another thread some time
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2008 : 03:02:24 AM
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Originally posted by trinityWow, I've got shivers down my spine after reading your thoughts on Akhira. I feel we have committed a cardinal sin in not using him sooner, however, hopefully we can now rectify this. His conformation is outstanding and he has the most amazing temperament. I was not a huge Arab fan, until I started working with this boy. Every professional who has dealt with him comments on his temperament and he is a joy to be with. I'm slowly bringing him on, under saddle with a view to doing some dressage in order to get him out and seen. The Arab mare is Escoza / www.allbreedpedigree.com/escosza. I think her bloodlines are pretty good, but your thoughts on this match are welcomed. Thank you so much for replying.
Hi Beck,
When it is this kind of pedigree, my heart sings. Let me explain why...Right now we have Skowronek as sire line in so many pedigrees but the sons utilized are pretty much limited to *Raffles, *Raseyn, Naseem (in the US via *Serafix and Raktha in the UK). To find a stallion whose sire line to Skowronek passes via Naziri and it is not through *Carmargue but a nephew...Is really good but even BETTER when you realize that Naziri was considered by Lady W to be the best, the finest, the most beautiful son of Skowronek and the BEST Arabian alive anywhere in the world during his lifetime...is saying a tremendous amount...because he was alive during the life of *Raswan, Naseem, *Raffles, *Raseyn, et. al.! Lady W was not given to superlatives but she was about Naziri. You will find this if you research interviews, ads and her labels on his pictures in her book, THE AUTHENTIC ARABIAN HORSE.
Another thing...your boy's temperament suggests his intelligence. Now most horses have a braincase capacity the size of a turkey egg and not too much bigger. Conversely the Arabian has a brain the same size as a human and in some cases of Crabbet and Davenport Arabians they are larger than a human's!!! Additionally the most developed part of the horses brain is the emotional center...Love plays a huge role in an Arabian's life. His human(s) are incredibly important to him. That is why so often horses become sick when sent away from home to a trainer or are purchased and sold far away. Remember Carmargue nearly died when he was leased by Don Diego Mendez in Spain he missed his owner, Alun Prothero so much. (He was almost destroyed on the recommendation of three vets but Don Diego and Alun wouldn't, couldn't do it. Few know that Don Diego slept in Cam's stall every night to ensure his survival and in the process formed a huge bond with the stallion that saw them win the Salon du Cheval with the highest scores to that time ever!)
So to answer your question...if Escoza is as beautiful as her pedigree suggests-the baby should be a stunner. However...Polish blood sometimes doesn't become beautiful until 7-8 years of age. But looks to me like it should be a spectacular cross. She is a Seglawi tracing to Milordka-nearly the most winning Seglawi line in Nationals halter classes...Also the Milordka line mares are extremely fine. Plan to do some showing! |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2008 : 03:06:11 AM
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| Originally posted by Kazhak
Hi egbert thanx for the info on the rare Arab mare I mentioned, Takritya
Ralvon Pilgrim was one of the best moving Arabians this Country at least will ever see, (sorry I'm biased) although he had his faults one of which was a long back however (i'm not bagging him) the quality he passed on to his offspring and consequently their offspring was not tarnished by that,
I must apologise about my post about My Miniature Running horse Salaa as I know So much about him and his bloodlines and the quality that is on both his Non Arabian Tail female line and His Sire lines, My Father bred Him and his Mother and his father and his welsh Grandmother, I'm very Proud of him and love him to bits, he has so much of the Arabian Flair for life, & I hope will be my Endurance Stallion for many years to come, He is as yet Untested in the Endurance world and has only Completed 1 40 km ride so far, I hope to have him doing 80's at least by next year and then its that and beyond,
I will try and find some pics to post of Salaa's parents in another thread some time
Hi Kazhak,
Any chance of seeing pictures of your pony? Is he considered an Arabian Derivative?
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Kazhak
Silver Member
Australia
352 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2008 : 06:40:04 AM
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Hi Egbert He would be classed as Arabian Pony As his Grand Dam is Welsh B,
I haven't really got anything really very nice of him mostly stuff of us Riding, I have long legs and he's only small so its rather embarasing, Even though in my heart I know he can Carry me all day and never complain, he's very small, I'll see what I can find and I might Pm them to you if you don't mind
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trinity
Gold Member
Scotland
1126 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2008 : 07:05:09 AM
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Hi Egbert,
Thank you for your reply. The detail is great. Since I started researching Akhira' pedigree, I have become somewhat of a junkie and it's great to get such a detailed fix! Escosza is very pretty and has great confirmation. She has a great deal of presence when she moves. Unfortunately, she has no faith in humans and clings to the other horses. If removed from them she panics. We bought her knowing this was the case, last summer, and are making very slow progress, but we are making progress. The balance of trust is slowly shifting. Having read your comments above, you do wonder what the poor girl has gone through in order to have such a distrust of humans. If I can work out how, I will pm some pics of her to you. Thanks again for your advice and comments. |
Beck |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2008 : 09:13:51 AM
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| Originally posted by trinity
Hi Egbert,
Thank you for your reply. The detail is great. Since I started researching Akhira' pedigree, I have become somewhat of a junkie and it's great to get such a detailed fix! Escosza is very pretty and has great confirmation. She has a great deal of presence when she moves. Unfortunately, she has no faith in humans and clings to the other horses. If removed from them she panics. We bought her knowing this was the case, last summer, and are making very slow progress, but we are making progress. The balance of trust is slowly shifting. Having read your comments above, you do wonder what the poor girl has gone through in order to have such a distrust of humans. If I can work out how, I will pm some pics of her to you. Thanks again for your advice and comments.
Hi Becky,
Sounds like you are doing just the right thing. The Seglawi lines remain loyal to one human as a rule sometimes family if they have been raised with family. Remember, out in the desert, a mare easily stolen was worthless so many of your old desert horses were not only loyal to just one human and immediate family but would attack unless formally introduced to someone! This was, according to Akmet Haffez as he was showing Homer Davenport, who had just been snapped at, the desert horses' attitude to strangers and, the insurance policy against a too easy theft! It was bred in! As a general rule it takes a year or so to bring about the Arabian loyalty/love/attitude shift. If they have been badly abused, trust takes a long time but unless there is some sort of physical brain issue (like humans some can be less intelligent, mentally ill, etc.)should eventually come around and actually surprise you!
Kazhak, thank you! Will really enjoy seeing those photos here as he will educate us all! Thanks for the clarification, too, re Arabian derivatives vs. Welsh pony influence.
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Kazhak
Silver Member
Australia
352 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2008 : 11:58:11 AM
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Hey thats what this is about hey Egbert,
okay so the first thing to remember is that not all Arabian Ponies are as Small as my 2,
Somehow the height missed a generation, we have Bred Arabian Ponies that have Gone 15 hh or more,
My Stallion Probably dosn't exceed 13hh and My Mare is just a tad over 13.1
Here in Aus the Classification goes as follows A cross of Welsh section A or B and Arabian is Arabian Pony While a cross of Welsh Section C or D is Arabian Derivative or Partbred Arabian, I believe it has something to do with the other Breeds that were used to get the Height in Cobs, thats just my belief.
Okay so this First Photo is Salaa My Stallion He's 3/4 Arabian His Welsh grand Dam (Tail Female Line) was a welsh Section B So He's Arabian Pony
in the above pic he's in a Hackamore but I now ride him in a bit & bridle, the only 1 of my ponies that I do head collars all round
This is a pic of Salaa's Paternal Grand dam & Great Grand dam, So she is on My boys Sire line, (which is still important) the pic was taken when Mistral was only about 4 or 6 years ld, She died last year at 21 or 2 years young, not long after we had gotten her back (a sad sad day for my dad)
Shanameer Mistral - Funny but she came from a welsh stud - pure Arab though
okay so this Picture should give you a rough idea of how small my little fellow is, this pic was taken at his first outing and he wouldn't stand still, (lol) he was sooo excited
and last but not least (I know I've posted some of these elsewhere but I was asked to post them here too)
Salaa's Sire and grand Sire Kolahai Rissaam a ralvon pilgrim Son
Once I get them Scanned in I'll post Some Pics of Salaa's Welsh Grand dam, as we only have old Stills of her, Dainty little thing that she was
anyways Cheers for the Encouragement Egbert
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Edited by - Kazhak on 18 May 2008 12:04:01 PM |
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trinity
Gold Member
Scotland
1126 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2008 : 8:13:08 PM
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| Wow, excuse me butting in here Kazhak, but what lovely stock you've got. I do like the look of your boy. He's stunning. |
Beck |
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Kazhak
Silver Member
Australia
352 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2008 : 01:47:50 AM
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Thanx Beck (lol) Which boy would you mean, My little fella really doesn't compare with his father, well actually he reminds very much of his father, he runs just like him and sounds so much like his father when he's talking to the girls.
He also has many of His welsh Drand dam's qualities too, like his eyes and his quik wit
okay okay, Rissaam is my Dads Stallion While Salaa is very Much Mine, and he is his own self & I could not be more Proud of him, he's really done a lot for me, he's my first stallion and my first riding stallion, while I have ridden dads boys before, I had to back Salaa myself and mouth him and do all the hard work (not that Salaa was hard work) I think he was designed to be a riding horse - in fact i believe he loves it |
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trinity
Gold Member
Scotland
1126 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2008 : 05:55:06 AM
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| Hello, it was your wee fellow Salaa I liked. He has nice presence to him without being flash and nice lines - good confirmation. You've obviously done a great job with him. His Dad is lovely, but it was your boy and his paternal grand dam that really caught my eye. Salaa looks like he enjoys being ridden. Well done. |
Beck |
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Kazhak
Silver Member
Australia
352 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2008 : 10:14:02 AM
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Thanx Beck,
My Little man Is a very fun Pony, and he's so Zesty, I've had many people Advise me to geld him, I keep refusing as He has good Conformation, not to mention being a Stallion is part of what Makes him great, I mean this little fellow trains himself most of the time, he has this passion Just to move, to run its beautiful to watch, (sorry can you tell I'm in love), I know most of us would say such things about our Horses i Guess we all have that in common theres alsways something that has us Coming back for more from our Arabians |
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Fee
Platinum Member
2601 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2008 : 08:19:59 AM
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Well, I don't know about everyone else, but I've certainly been waiting for these pics!!
I'm posting them for Becky (trinity) of her wonderful stallion Akhira and I'll let her tell you about them.
If she'll let me I think I've found Po's husband  Gari what do you think of Akhira x Polianka 
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Mrs DJ
Gold Member
632 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2008 : 10:05:04 AM
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Oh, he's lovely .
I know it's not remotely possible at the moment (dreaming !!), but could you also give me your thoughts on what he and Zeyrha would produce, please, Egbert ?? |
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Lynn Tait
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
210 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2008 : 12:33:18 PM
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Hi Beck i bred escosza and she was the friendliest foal ever easy to catch in field you could go and lie down beside her!!i dont know what has happened to her as i lost track of her after the man i sold her to sold her on but i am sure she will come round with lots of tlc,her mum is a very choosy mare as to who her friends are,i can do anything with her but if someone she does not know tries to catch her she is very wary until she checks them out.Would love to see some photos of escosza if you have any.
cheers Lynn |
Lynn Tait |
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trinity
Gold Member
Scotland
1126 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2008 : 10:58:12 PM
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| Thanks Fee for putting pics up. Lynn lovely to hear from you, as one of my next steps was to try and trace Escoza's history. Can I pm you please? We love her dearly but would love some advice on her. We bought her knowing she would be a handful, but we don't want to screw things up with her any further and it would be great to talk to someone who has had dealings with her. Ok, for everyone else these pics were taken of Akhira last year. He is 13 years old and 15hh. He was bred by my stud partner / colleague Iain Richmond who owned both his dam and sire. He covered for the first time last year. He covered four mares. 3 of them held and one didn't, and the owner of the one who didn't wasn't surprised as she apparently needs to run for several months with the stallion and it was late on in the season. He covered 2 Highlands and a warmblood. One of the Highlands and the Warmblood are two of our broodmares. Sadly, our Highland mare slipped her foal a fortnight ago with only 10 weeks to go. Akhira is an absolute gentleman and a joy to work with. I can safely leave my 9 year old daughter to groom him, change his rug etc. I am new to the world of Arabs and although Iain has had Arabs for the past 16 years or so he had no idea until several months ago just how good Akhira's breeding is. This year we are hoping to put our Polish mare Escoza to him, as well as Annie (warmblood) if we like the look of what she produces this time. We have a little Welsh X in foal to him and depending on lab results our Highland will go back to him. I'm hoping Lyndsay will put her mare to us this year but we would dearly love to have some more pure breds. Our aim with him was to produce nice ArabX to fill a much needed height gap in the market up here and we are also looking to breed another colt to continue his line. He was shown as a youngster but didn't do much, as it has taken him a long time to mature. He has been ridden fairly inconsistently so this year I am going to reschool him and then get out under saddle as well as showing him in hand. Any advice on where to show, would be greatly appreciated. I love this boy and am really coming to love and resect the Arab as a breed thanks to him. Thats probably enough of my burbling. Thanks again Fee for putting the pics up. Oh, we are currently in process of training him for semen collection with a view to being able to offer AI. |
Beck |
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TOOTHLESS
Silver Member
Australia
350 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2008 : 4:00:36 PM
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A couple of picts of Jude my grandson , And his dad ,my eldest Andrew. Attilio
PS And why not one with his gran (and my wife) Doreen , , |
Edited by - TOOTHLESS on 22 May 2008 4:26:44 PM |
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rhoni
Gold Member
United Kingdom
910 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2008 : 4:44:48 PM
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| For an example of the power of the tail female line, check out the new thread on Bright Magic QA and compare the photos of him with my boy - and then check out their pedigrees on allbreed! Amazing! (cutie pie baby, Toothless!) |
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TOOTHLESS
Silver Member
Australia
350 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2008 : 4:58:52 PM
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| Kazhak, I,ll have to take exception to your assertion that Ralvon Pilgrim was long in the back. You may have got that impression because he had very good length of croup and from hip to point of buttocks.His dam Trix Silver is right up there with the most highly regarded mares in Australia . Ralvon Pilgrim passed on his style and movement to many of his progeny,and some prime examples can found at River Oak Arabians. |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2008 : 11:04:53 AM
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Originally posted by KazhakHey thats what this is about hey Egbert, okay so the first thing to remember is that not all Arabian Ponies are as Small as my 2, Somehow the height missed a generation, we have Bred Arabian Ponies that have Gone 15 hh or more, My Stallion Probably dosn't exceed 13hh and My Mare is just a tad over 13.1 Here in Aus the Classification goes as follows A cross of Welsh section A or B and Arabian is Arabian Pony While a cross of Welsh Section C or D is Arabian Derivative or Partbred Arabian, I believe it has something to do with the other Breeds that were used to get the Height in Cobs, thats just my belief. Okay so this First Photo is Salaa My Stallion He's 3/4 Arabian His Welsh grand Dam (Tail Female Line) was a welsh Section B So He's Arabian Pony in the above pic he's in a Hackamore but I now ride him in a bit & bridle, the only 1 of my ponies that I do head collars all round This is a pic of Salaa's Paternal Grand dam & Great Grand dam, So she is on My boys Sire line, (which is still important) the pic was taken when Mistral was only about 4 or 6 years ld, She died last year at 21 or 2 years young, not long after we had gotten her back (a sad sad day for my dad) Shanameer Mistral - Funny but she came from a welsh stud - pure Arab though okay so this Picture should give you a rough idea of how small my little fellow is, this pic was taken at his first outing and he wouldn't stand still, (lol) he was sooo excited and last but not least (I know I've posted some of these elsewhere but I was asked to post them here too) Salaa's Sire and grand Sire Kolahai Rissaam a ralvon pilgrim Son Once I get them Scanned in I'll post Some Pics of Salaa's Welsh Grand dam, as we only have old Stills of her, Dainty little thing that she was anyways Cheers for the Encouragement Egbert
Kazhak,
I love your boy and think he would be a hit here. He is so perfectly proportioned that not until seeing you on him does one realize just how small he is. Truly a rare diamond! Thank you for sharing these photos of him and his family! |
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Kazhak
Silver Member
Australia
352 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2008 : 11:11:35 AM
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Hi Toothless take exception if you wish, i think you'll find that if you measure Pilgrims lines and you'll find he is not on the square,
My fathers Stallion is By Pilgrim I know all about his movement and Trix Silver, (and the rest of his lines) my little man is a Pilgrim Grandson, I never bagged Pilgrim out you'll also find that I said that pilgrim was one of this countries Best movers or something to that effect, i love the horse, yes his Croupe is extreme and this, helps to give the great movement...
this is exactley what I said
"Ralvon Pilgrim was one of the best moving Arabians this Country at least will ever see, (sorry I'm biased) although he had his faults one of which was a long back however (i'm not bagging him) the quality he passed on to his offspring and consequently their offspring was not tarnished by that,"
I think you'll find that every horse has its faults
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
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Kazhak
Silver Member
Australia
352 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2008 : 11:24:05 AM
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| not knowing the mare he's a lovely Boy guys, Nice Wedgy head with goodd Breadth, and clean legs.. |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2008 : 11:29:58 AM
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Originally posted by Mrs DJOh, he's lovely . I know it's not remotely possible at the moment (dreaming !!), but could you also give me your thoughts on what he and Zeyrha would produce, please, Egbert ??
I love the thought of trying these two together because they have a lot of similarities...the risks would be there can be a lot of white markings and I think they come through the shared dam lines BUT the result could be a truly elegant and equisite foal.
Gotta tell you, Mrs. DJ, I'd love to see your girl not only with Akhira BUT with several others as well like Derivatiw Gwyddian (sp?), Tobago, and of the wonderful Om El lines avaiable in the UK, Charismma, ...Your Zeyrha would be such fun to own! |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
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Tail Female Line....?
