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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Feb 2008 : 9:07:27 PM
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Liane, welcome to Arabian Lines.
I know you will enjoy the Tail Female Line thread; it has questions about all sorts of mixtures of Arabian bloodlines, addressed with huge acumen, insight, experience, honesty, encouragement and kindness by Gari - who we Arabian Liners consider a global expert and now feel we have some kind of 'ownership' of!
It also has a vast catalogue of pictures to illustrate some of the subjects. I think it is an amazing archive and we all owe a massive debt of gratitude to Gari. |
Roseanne |
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gabriele
New Member
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2008 : 9:13:42 PM
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Thank you Roseanne, I look forward to catching up. It's a pleasure to be here and learn from you all.
Liane
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willowview
Junior Member
49 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2008 : 3:18:09 PM
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| Originally posted by willowview
Sad to say that the Burgundy daughter I posted the picture of isn't one of ours.....it was just the best picture I had of one of his offspring. We do have 2 daughters that have been just amazing producers and I will try to locate a picture of them.
The thing that I find very interesting about Burgundy Parke is that as good as BP was an an individual, he never directly re-produced that quality as a complete package...none of his off-spring were of the same quality, over all, as their sire. But the off-spring his daughters are reproducing are amazing and very complete as individuals, with alot of their qualities being very directly associatable to Burgundy Parke himself. Which is great, exactly what we want in a broodmare....One that out-produces herself with every foal, very much drawing on the best attributes of the stallion she is bred to and reproducing to the high standards in her own pedigree. Burgundy Parke is really going to be remembered by the people who know of him, as a broodmare sire.....none of his son's were left intact.
Pictures to follow (hopefully)
Here are our Burgundy Parke daughters, and please excuse the poor photo quality. Burgundy Lace
Madison
These 2 mares were the first mares we purchased for breeding and while having similar parentage they are as different as night and day in athletic ability, attitude and phenotype.....crossing their offspring was inevitable and has produced the most amazing fillies for us. So now the question is, where do we go from here? Based on their existing pedigrees like this of Rumour, http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/wv+rumour and her phenotype, what direction in genotype will take us above and beyond? |
Edited by - willowview on 28 Feb 2008 3:19:22 PM |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2008 : 10:42:43 PM
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Hi All,
Just a quick note to let you know the minute I returned home was confronted by all kinds of things...meetings, horses, taxes...Have gotten most of the meetings out of the way but one of my mares has had an abscessed foot and the taxes have yet to worked on. I promise with fingers crossed, by the end of the week, will be back on board and answering questions starting with page 60.
Gotta tell you it was a hoot to spend some quality time with Lynda. She is simply the best and it was terrific to take her around to various places and introduce her to various friends.
Liane! Great to see you here!
Bob, am looking forward to answering your question...as I think you have some of the finest mares in Arabdom! Who was your original mentor? Did you have one? |
Edited by - Egbert on 06 Mar 2008 07:43:23 AM |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2008 : 08:35:48 AM
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Oh Gari I was about to write to you today to say a big THANK YOU for taking such good care of me and for being such a good hostess, (Well, we are english you know ) I only got back on monday from Dallas and came straight down with a nasty Bug I have been so ill I took to my bed, but ok now, glad you are back to the forum |
   
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2008 : 08:49:41 AM
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Oh for those that dont know ,Gari is the good looking one on the left, I am the ridiculous looking one in the cowboy hat ( typical brit abroad )
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www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
Edited by - LYNDILOU on 06 Mar 2008 08:59:24 AM |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2008 : 11:04:43 AM
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Hi Jade!
Well we hit a problem right off...Your Illuminata comes up to a TB born in the late 1800's....(?) oops! Will try to straighten that out...Oh good! Found him...He is very interestingly bred colt and is a Seglawi Jedran back to my favorite Bint Helwa! But more importantly, this must be a very very attractive youngster if not stunning as he is a mix of the most important lines in Arabdom: Sired by the Menes line stallion, Judals Raphael through Vympel and on to Mareen, his Russian/Polish sire line to Amurath Sahib is renowned for beauty; there is fabulous Spanish blood on both sides of the pedigree (Makor and Arabian Beauty), a touch of old Babson Egyptian and a lot of lovely Crabbet and Crabbet related blood.
If he fully reflects his pedigree, Illuminata should be brilliant bred to any mare!
Annyarah is sire line Rabdan via Seef and traces to the Worlds Fair mare, imported from the desert, *Nedjme who is one of the great dam lines ever and is known for being the dam line of a great many winners in the US, e.g., Fame VF, probably the most successful son of Bey Shah. There is some controversy that she was a Kuhailan but an interview with her importer 40 years after she was imported indicates she was the highest caste Seglawi Jedran. Certainly the line breeds very Seglawi! She should be solid, showy, and an excellent dam! A fun filly to own. I'd breed her to your boy or Tobago or just about anything that you liked.
Tres Chic must be fabulous. Sire line to Ali Jamaal dam line to the same as Estopa/El Shaklan's and one I suspect is a Kuhailan Dajania. If she isn't a leading show mare in the UK, she should be! She is beautifully bred with leading Egyptian, Spanish, Pussian...I'd suspect she is one you might like a tad more scope but another you can breed just about anyway you want but your boy should be a major consideration as she would be complimented by him.
Have you seen the new guy coming over to you? Magnum Gold? He has leg issues but they are man-made. I knew him as a baby and as an adult...Gold is simply stunning and he is a candidate for your girls, along with several others you might want to consider as well.
Lynda,
Wow what fun pictures! Thank you for posting them! Gotta tell you that the owner of Brookville is Annabella Gelbard, one of the more delightfully fun people of Arabdom. She is a huge supporter of various ARabian horse activities in the US and got her start in Arabians when her young son insisted they rescue a huge Percheron. From there they began looking at Arabians and the rest is history. Anyone going to Scottsdale should stop by Brookville and visit with fellow Brit, Matthew Gales who is managing the breeding program! They always have fabulous, in show condition horses to look at!
The owners of WH Justice are very charming, Catherine and Thierry Kerjean, pictured with us at Brookville. More tomorrow!
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Edited by - Egbert on 13 Mar 2008 10:13:59 AM |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2008 : 3:52:38 PM
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Gari, nice to hear from you I thought you must be down with the same bug as me as I didnt see you post till today funny enogh the people who owned sasaki have been down with the same bug as me only just recovering now, is it something I picked up there? or perhaps I gave it to them either way it was a nasty bug and has left me weak as a kitten |
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2008 : 08:54:19 AM
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Gosh, Lynda, the flu is here but hasn't attacked anyone that I knew at Scottsdale but you. Am thinking you might have picked it up on the plane? You poor thing. I'd heard it was nasty.
I've just been trying to catch up with stuff here before settling in to trying to write the book and doing the thread. Am not doing too well. Think it is because of TAXES...UGH. I'd rather be at the dentist's. |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2008 : 10:03:48 AM
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Wow! Natalie!
This should be an awesome baby. Probably gray, sire line Nazeer, Dam line to Sobha, Lady Anne's favorite line next to Jellaby lines! Stunningly beautiful, showy, SMOOOOOOOOTH, extremely well conformed with superb motion, the kind you could make a world champion anything. This baby should be versatile in halter and performance remembering that with the numbers of crosses to Nazeer and his son *Morafic, I wouldn't be surprised if the baby is super HOT! Hopefully the dam line will temper that considerably. There is a sweetness and ethereal quality that comes through Sobha...your best friend type of horse and the Shaklan's are known to be people lovers and that blood is doubled in the pedigree. Have you already had cover? When is the baby due?
Think you will have a very rare treasure in this cross. |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2008 : 10:34:06 AM
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Originally posted by willowviewOriginally posted by willowview
Sad to say that the Burgundy daughter I posted the picture of isn't one of ours.....it was just the best picture I had of one of his offspring. We do have 2 daughters that have been just amazing producers and I will try to locate a picture of them.
The thing that I find very interesting about Burgundy Parke is that as good as BP was an an individual, he never directly re-produced that quality as a complete package...none of his off-spring were of the same quality, over all, as their sire. But the off-spring his daughters are reproducing are amazing and very complete as individuals, with alot of their qualities being very directly associatable to Burgundy Parke himself. Which is great, exactly what we want in a broodmare....One that out-produces herself with every foal, very much drawing on the best attributes of the stallion she is bred to and reproducing to the high standards in her own pedigree. Burgundy Parke is really going to be remembered by the people who know of him, as a broodmare sire.....none of his son's were left intact.
Pictures to follow (hopefully)
Here are our Burgundy Parke daughters, and please excuse the poor photo quality. Burgundy Lace Madison These 2 mares were the first mares we purchased for breeding and while having similar parentage they are as different as night and day in athletic ability, attitude and phenotype.....crossing their offspring was inevitable and has produced the most amazing fillies for us. So now the question is, where do we go from here? Based on their existing pedigrees like this of Rumour, http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/wv+rumour and her phenotype, what direction in genotype will take us above and beyond?
Hey Bob!
For what it is worth, think the reason that Burgundy Lace and Madison are different is because they have quite differing dam lines. There is more of the companion horse about Madison as she is a Jellaby and one of Lady Annes favorite lines; whilst Lace traces to Rodania combined with major action. That being the case there is a strong Kuhailan element to Rumour's pedigree so you would want to follow the old Blunt rule to cover Kuhailan Rodania line mares with a Seglawi line stallion! Antham sure fits the bill! Another I would like to see you try at some point is WH Justice, perhaps a Seglawi son of Magnum Psyche in the US or Canada. We would have to search around.
Bet Rumour is quite showy and can sometimes seem aloof. |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
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spirit
Gold Member
England
567 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2008 : 2:37:23 PM
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Hi Gari,
Many thanks for your much valued opinion, she is not in foal yet, we are waiting for the weather to wamm up a little then we can get cracking, but she is fully booked in and ready to go. Im so excited, i think this breeding is very special. Great to hear about the temperaments in these lines and the dam and sire lines, so interesting.
many thanks again,
Natalie xxx
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Cleworth Hall Farm
df.ballerina@googlemail.com
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2008 : 07:12:40 AM
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Natalie,
You are welcome! Would love to see pictures of sire and dam at some point and of course when the baby arrives next year! |
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Bex
Gold Member
Wales
559 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2008 : 08:39:53 AM
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Hi Gari
I would be very grateful if you could help with my gelding, his name is "Halals Shadow" and he is on allbreedpedigree.
Anything at all you could tell me about his dams side would be fab I understand his Sire's high percentage crabbet, but other than that I know very little and I know virtually nothing about his Dam
Any information you could give me would be very much appreciated!
Thank you
Becci |
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Kash
Platinum Member
England
3777 Posts |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2008 : 10:56:46 AM
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Hi Becci!
Welcome aboard!
Lauren, thank you so much for posting the link.
Well Becci, can understand the question marks on the distaff side of the pedigree.
It wasn't very complete. Have spent the last hour putting it together as best possible. Suffice it to say you have a chap with a lovely pedigree!
Your gelding's sire is the beautifully bred straight Crabbet Halal by Hanif who was one of the most delightful, sheer joy horses to watch as any stallion who has ever lived. He was so full of himself and was a major Arabian star at 30. If you never had a chance to see him in the flesh, you really missed an extraordinary stallion. Hanif defined personality. One of the greatest joys was going to the National show and seeing him year after year. Hanif not only defined personality but 'entertainment' as well. Halal's dam was the royally bred Sherilla by Bright Shadow renowned for his incredibly kind temperament as well as solidly built beautiful demeanor. Her tail female is Dajania thus she is a Koheilan Dajania.
Halals Shadow's dam, Comets Shadow is by Shariko who traces back to Rabdan via the straight Egyptian, the Shah. Shariko's dam is El Knock un Ish by the desert bred (per the US Datasource) Shamyl and out of Kezzia who was premdominately Crabbet but out of desert related horses.
Comets Shadow is out of Djamella by the *Carmargue son, Djammal, and Shadow is out of Blue Orla (Crystal Sharif x Blue Finda). Through Blue Finda who traces to Bright Shadow through Blue Finda's dam Veruska there are thus, three crosses to Bright Shadow, two times through the dam and once through the sire so Halals Shadow has to have a wonderful temperament. His tail female goes back to Rodania via Rose of Sharon so he has got to be a wonderful riding horse and pretty into the bargain!
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Bex
Gold Member
Wales
559 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2008 : 12:26:22 PM
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Hi
Thank you so much for that, it's all so interesting!
That's spot on about his temperament, he has the most wonderful temperament I've ever come across, he's a lovely riding horse and quite striking!
I really must get organised with my photos so I can get a few on here.
Thanks again for your time it's much appreciated!
Becci |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2008 : 1:43:31 PM
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My pleasure Becci! And yes please, when you can, post pictures. The corrected pedigree-the blanks filled in - should show up tomorrow on All Breeds.
PS
What color is Shadow? His dam was apparently bay! |
Edited by - Egbert on 14 Mar 2008 1:48:27 PM |
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willowview
Junior Member
49 Posts |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2008 : 08:10:19 AM
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Hi Bob!
Fun question! Wadduda is the creme de la creme of any dam line-right up there with Rodania and Bint Helwa. She is a Seglawi al Abd...
According to the ancient story, there were three fabulous mares belonging to the old Sheikh Seglawi. He let his sons and most loyal servant know that on his death he was leaving each man one of the mares, all full sisters, and along with the mare, the servant would be freed from the family.
Well, between us, I always thought the old man a bit dim. By letting them know, especially the servant, who was taking care of the mares, it would allow for planning. The servant would want the best mare for his retirement so her care he would let be a bit lax so she never looked superior to the other two mares! When the old man died off went the servant with the Seglawi al Abd (translated: the Seglawi of the servant). This line was known for its loyalty, stamina and extra intelligence as well as a rare beauty.
Fast forward to the Davenport import *Wadduda (whom I'm sure I've written about in the past, but will reiterate) whose name according to Davenport, means 'affection and love'. "She is a rather remarkable individual, having been the favorite war mare of her time of the Ruler of the Anezeh, showing two scars of the lance on her neck. She was ridden from Iskanderoon to Aleppo, to overtake camels that had been passed without being checked, a distance of 106 miles, in 11 hours, having, previous to that ride, had her right fore pastern badly damaged in war!"
Interestingly the Bowlings did mtDNA tests of several lines and found to their surprise that Rodania, a Kuhailan Ajuz and *Wadduda, a Seglawi al Abd...shared the same original tail female! What does that mean? Well one was probably of the Seglawi al Abd or K.A of Ibn Rodania tribe and through war, trade, theft, et.al. became incorporated into the other tribe and over the generations took on the characteristics of that tribe's best representatives.
For now, I always treat *Wadduda as a true Seglawi as so often I'll see Kuhailan Rodanias who have more of the look of the Seglawi...as the line adapts more readily when crossed with heavy Seglawi blood. Conversely the *Waddudas tend to, no matter how bred, remain true to the Seglawi al Abd ideal.
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Edited by - Egbert on 17 Mar 2008 08:16:59 AM |
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Anne Harris
Silver Member
United Kingdom
314 Posts |
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s.jade
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2401 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2008 : 12:07:01 PM
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Well we hit a problem right off...Your Illuminata comes up to a TB born in the late 1800's....(?) oops! Will try to straighten that out...Oh good! Found him...He is very interestingly bred colt and is a Seglawi Jedran back to my favorite Bint Helwa! But more importantly, this must be a very very attractive youngster if not stunning as he is a mix of the most important lines in Arabdom: Sired by the Menes line stallion, Judals Raphael through Vympel and on to Mareen, his Russian/Polish sire line to Amurath Sahib is renowned for beauty; there is fabulous Spanish blood on both sides of the pedigree (Makor and Arabian Beauty), a touch of old Babson Egyptian and a lot of lovely Crabbet and Crabbet related blood.
If he fully reflects his pedigree, Illuminata should be brilliant bred to any mare!
Annyarah is sire line Rabdan via Seef and traces to the Worlds Fair mare, imported from the desert, *Nedjme who is one of the great dam lines ever and is known for being the dam line of a great many winners in the US, e.g., Fame VF, probably the most successful son of Bey Shah. There is some controversy that she was a Kuhailan but an interview with her importer 40 years after she was imported indicates she was the highest caste Seglawi Jedran. Certainly the line breeds very Seglawi! She should be solid, showy, and an excellent dam! A fun filly to own. I'd breed her to your boy or Tobago or just about anything that you liked.
Tres Chic must be fabulous. Sire line to Ali Jamaal dam line to the same as Estopa/El Shaklan's and one I suspect is a Kuhailan Dajania. If she isn't a leading show mare in the UK, she should be! She is beautifully bred with leading Egyptian, Spanish, Pussian...I'd suspect she is one you might like a tad more scope but another you can breed just about anyway you want but your boy should be a major consideration as she would be complimented by him.
Huge thanks again Gari
I also own Illuminata's sire, Judals Raphael, and will now possibly kick myself for having the pair of the gelded 2 weeks ago!!
Never mind, they'll be happy lads
Aanyarah is as you say, a lot of fun! She has a huge added bonus of being jet black, and yes, very solid like her daddy! Another homebred so again I'm so happy with your lovely analysis...I am expecting a full sibling in 5 weeks too!
Tres Chic is my hidden gem, she has never been out in public and is now 3, but hopefully this is her year We were thinking of Tobago for her, so knowing her lines cross well pretty much anywhere is fab, thank you!
Do you mean JUDALS Magnum Gold? Or the Magnum Gold in the US? Judals MG is now gelded and with a lovely forum member |
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Tail Female Line....?
