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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Feb 2008 : 03:14:38 AM
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Hi Nikki!
I love the looks of Vygrish if the All Breeds is an example....What a cutie but the dam line is one that I've never seen before and ditto Zaqrah...I'd be very leery of bringing more babies into the world unless they have had some offspring you have seen and like very much.
Here's why...As a general rule great horses come out of well known lines...Vygrish has wonderful horses but the dam line is one I've never before come across so it has not done a lot here in the West. What you need is someone who knows the line back in Russia. It certainly doesn't seem to have done all that well in Poland either. Perhaps in racing? (my ignorance is huge when it comes to racing Arabians...)
Vasilisk, a Russian, is another not known in the world's major show rings so again am guessing that crossed with a mare named Hamdanieh...and following the dam line which traces to Bahrain and on to Saudi Arabia she is presumably of some branch of the Hamdani families and would be a smooth, reliable mount known more for athletic ability rather than a knock 'em dead in the show ring reputation.
If you want an absolute outcross probably couldn't do much better than Zaqrah. What is your goal with the mating of these two Nikki? |
Edited by - Egbert on 03 Feb 2008 03:38:37 AM |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2008 : 8:45:51 PM
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Dear Egbert,
I wonder if you could give me an idea of the history of, and potential for, my most recent pupil, a predominantly Crabbet youngster called Zakhahn.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/zakhahn
We have been taking things very slowly here as he has needed much understanding in the months I have had him. He is beautiful, now much-bonded and a very precious creature; grey and dappled, the easiest stallion one could want around and now becoming a delight to ride. Happy to live out 24/7, loves his neighbour horses and has all sorts of exceptional qualities (but of couse I am biased) which I would be happy to expound on. But first I would love to hear whether you have any views on his bloodlines and any potential you may see there.
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Roseanne |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2008 : 12:30:52 PM
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thanks Gari.
I've already had one cracking filly foal out of Zaqrah, she's not pretty in the sense of show ring standards, but i am not breeding for the showring, i am breeding for performance. They are just my type of arab.
She's by the pure bahraini stallion Shuwaiman Al Bahrain.
Zaqrah is in foal to Goudah, baby due in June.
I like that, if you want an absolute outcross proberbly couldn't do much better than Zaqrah!
Zaqrah would say, cut out the proberbly!lol
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pagey |
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Kirsty5278
Platinum Member
England
2682 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2008 : 7:16:51 PM
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Wow.... gobsmacked!! Thank you so much!! Such lovely things to hear - always thought he was special to me but, well wow!! Thank you!
I shall get some up to date photos soon
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rafabreeze
Gold Member
757 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2008 : 8:58:55 PM
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| Hi Gari, thanks for the lovely things you said about my boy Rafael PA, I think he has most of the attributes of his pedigree but I suppose Im biased on that!! Georgina |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2008 : 11:16:19 AM
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Originally posted by RoseanneDear Egbert, I wonder if you could give me an idea of the history of, and potential for, my most recent pupil, a predominantly Crabbet youngster called Zakhahn. http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/zakhahnWe have been taking things very slowly here as he has needed much understanding in the months I have had him. He is beautiful, now much-bonded and a very precious creature; grey and dappled, the easiest stallion one could want around and now becoming a delight to ride. Happy to live out 24/7, loves his neighbour horses and has all sorts of exceptional qualities (but of couse I am biased) which I would be happy to expound on. But first I would love to hear whether you have any views on his bloodlines and any potential you may see there.
Roseanne,
First and foremost Zakhahn has a fabulous pedigree-none better and the closer you look the better it gets! His sire line is to Skowronek via the most beautiful of the Skowronek descendants, Irex a son of Naseem. Anything emanating from Irex is invariably simply gorgeous. His son Iridos, a gray and great grandsire to Zakhahn was bred to Zellah a daughter of Zirree El Wada a gorgeous mare if the photo in All Breeds is a measure, and she features on Zakhahn's dam line and she traces back to the great Bint Helwa, a Seglawi Jedran renowned for her beauty, loyalty and incredible courage...
What is so wonderful is that the entire pedigree is loaded with greats like Indian Magic featured on both sides of the pedigree noted for great beauty and intelligence; Bright Shadow, renowned as a great mare sire and his kindly, gentle nature that was guaranteed to his offspring for generations; Nefeuret a son of Manto but more reflective of his great granddam, Naxina by Skowronek x Nessima, Keheilan Dajania by strain, known for being superb breeding animals of great beauty; and he has minimally 4 crosses to Rissalix renowed for superb action. Zakhahn has as close to a no holes pedigree as you can get.
So what is he cut out to do? Everything...He should be a brilliant in hand horse and an equally brilliant performance horse. You should be able to show him in the morning in hand, ride him in the afternoon in a pleasure class and win it and then take him for a trail ride before going to bed! He is an excellent horse, if his pedigree is a measure.
Any chance of seeing some photos???
Nikki,
Your baby is very lovely and would love to see more picts and also for you to talk about the nature of her dam and the offspring's?
Kirsty and Georgina,
You both have some very nice horses...and it will be great fun to see photos!
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Edited by - Egbert on 06 Feb 2008 10:17:27 AM |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2008 : 1:54:16 PM
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Hi Egbert,
Hope you are well :)
I am going to try and get a bigger photo of Princess on here for you to see:) You were so correct in your prediction about her last breeding with Mostafa (Crusader x Mumtaz Begum), she had a beautiful big grey filly (with attitude!) last April :)))))
I just keep my fingers crossed that the same happens when I put her in foal this time! This stallion has total different bloodlines from anything I have used before but as they say, pay your money take your chances, and I have a good feeling about this unproven boy, his pedigree is full of some very beautiful arabs:))
Thank you again for your time, I really do appreciate your views on Princess and what I migh get with her soon to be 'hubby'.
Best wishes to you |
Angel
Passion Arabians
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2008 : 9:58:29 PM
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Egbert thank you very much for your assessment of Zakhahn's pedigree. I can't get photos when I visit allbreedspedigree.com so I have yet to see the ancestors you mention! If he lives up to half your expectations I shall be delighted as will his owner. He is a very sweet and easy chap to have around and I am constantly amazed at how lovely his movement and looks are. As he hasn't been 'out' yet I haven't had any feedback from judges or anyone in the Arab world. He's very different from my Polish/Russian boy, but the two are great friends.
I am hoping he will do a couple of in-hand shows (a local or two and perhaps a regional this spring/summer) and be ridden around there to show him the behaviour code. He's extremely comfortable to ride; not huge at 15hh but has the trot of a 16hh! I know he will jump well and do cross country as he is very easy cantering over the ups and downs around the outside of my arena. I am thoroughly looking forward to showing him the world and it feels as though he will be a very brave and loyal horse.
A friend has very kindly said she'll come to take pictures this weekend if the weather's kind, though it's winter here and he lives out so he won't be in show condition!
Thanks again very much for your knowledge. He's been wonderful to work with and it's made his future seem very exciting.
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Roseanne |
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Silvern_Scepris
Gold Member
England
1084 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2008 : 10:07:06 PM
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Roseanne, is this the colt you were telling me about late last year? If so, he sounds very special and I can't wait for the pics! |
  
London/Essex Border |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2008 : 10:20:40 AM
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Hi Angel,
Think you will be rewarded with something fabulous...Everybody there is so well bred that all you need to worry about is proper mare care which obviously you accomplish easily!
Roseanne,
Sounds like you are planning things out perfectly. Will pray you have terrific weather for photos this weekend! We just have to remember he will probably be a bit wooly! Right? |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2008 : 10:43:30 AM
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thanks gari, unfortunately no decent pics, i didn't even take the one above(hence it's a good picture)
I've pretty much given up on taking decent pics of the neds.
Zaqrah has a superb temprement, she's very kind, very calm, likes to be boss and centre of attention. Her daughter is very kind, very calm, loves a fuss, is never naughty, but is not as bossy as her mum! Both are easy, peasy to train. |
pagey |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2008 : 11:49:44 AM
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Elizabeth he is a very special chap. He's the easiest stallion to have around; follows you like a puppy on the end of the lead rope and is very bonded. He loves to play, I think would be tremendous in liberty classes (perhaps someone can give me an idea of what's needed in them?), he's not at all 'in your face' and I think would have been one of those Arabs that lived happily in the tent with you!
Egbert, if the weather's like today we'll be in luck. He is not woolly actually; unlike my gelding who's as fluffy as a shetland! Zakhahn's very silky all year round and has a forelock that reaches the end of his nose! I promise to get pix as soon as possible and may have to ask my friend to post them as I don't know how!
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Roseanne |
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rafabreeze
Gold Member
757 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2008 : 12:04:42 PM
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Hi Gari,
I will try and load some photos, but Im not much good at the moment. Rafael still has winter woolies but is still gorgeous (to me) so will try and up load those and some later in the year too. G |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2008 : 09:31:59 AM
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Nikki,
They are wonderful and that is what counts. No pressure...If you ever get some decent picts it would be lovely if you could share them!
Roseanne and Georgina,
Ditto above...Know what you mean about weather...Ours has been colder than Crawley and Tarbes...and we are at a much lower latitude...here in the California Sacramento Valley...BUT today we made it up to 58-a veritable heat wave! |
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Lindsay
Gold Member
Scotland
944 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2008 : 09:44:37 AM
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Hi gari
I have been asked to post this mare's pedigree and see if there is anything you can tell us about it. Particularly her dam's side as thre are a few there we have never heard of!
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/dancing+shadow8
Thanks in advance |
   
Paidir dóibhsean le fiántas ina gcroíthe acu, atá coinnithe i gcaighin |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2008 : 2:34:58 PM
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| Sorry, being thick Lynda - which one? I don't get to see pictures on allbreedspedigree.com. Maybe that's because I'm not a paying member? |
Roseanne |
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Anfi
Gold Member
Denmark
1195 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2008 : 3:12:01 PM
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Roseanne,
Even if you are not a subscriber you should be able to see the pic of the horse you are looking at by resting the cursor on the little green square to the right of the name of the horse (right above the pedigree). This is of course provided a photo of the horse in question exists and has been uploaded or linked to allbreeds. You cannot, however, see the pics of all the other horses in the pedigree without clicking on them individually or chosing Photo in the drop-down menu to the left (Report).
For instance, if you follow this link http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/elat
you should be able to see the photo by doing as described above. Also try chosing Photo in the left hand menu - this should bring up pics of all the ancestors in the pedigree that have had their photo added.
If you want to find the tail female of any horse you have to keep clicking on the bottom right horse (the dam of the dam of the dam of the dam of the dam, etc ) until there are no more left. The last horse in this line is the tail female dam and will usually have some information added that will tell you which strain it is. Not all horses have strain info, though, but just following the damline all the way back and looking at the pics is usually great fun.
Ex: the pedigree I posted a link to above goes to Ghayran, 1946. If you click on her, the damline then goes to Helwa, 1875. Clicking on her will bring you back to Ghazala, 1840 as the last named horse in the damline and if you click on her the info will tell you that she was a Seglawi Jedran of Ibn Sudan, bred in Egypt. This then, is the tail female of the horse I originally linked to.
Anne |
     
I Do What I Can and I Am What I Am - Fay Weldon |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2008 : 5:25:31 PM
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| Yikes Anne, I certainly have a lot to learn - starting with how to use the internet!! Thank you very much for the instruction; I'll go off and have a look around ABP.com! Was this link the one Linda was referring to? |
Roseanne |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2008 : 10:50:06 PM
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Originally posted by LindsayHi gari I have been asked to post this mare's pedigree and see if there is anything you can tell us about it. Particularly her dam's side as thre are a few there we have never heard of! http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/dancing+shadow8Thanks in advance
Hi Lindsay,
Well it is obviously a lovely pedigree and would expect that this is an exceptionally nice mare, refined, well built, very intelligent, athletic and very nice to look at though not exotic.
Sire line is to Mahruss II... These horses usually are the ones that carry that extra scosh of intelligence (very mischievious)....Often having a slightly bigger head than their counterparts of Nazeer or Skowronek sire lines, for example. Thus it is very important to work closely with the Mahruss sire line horses as the result can be staggeringly satisfying. They are exceptionally loyal and intelligent.
With the dam line back to the wonderous Kuhailan Krush, Dafina who was bred to Naziri and sold to the Guiness family (Lord and Lady Moyne), with the resulting filly Dafinetta, this is one of the great tail female lines for promised beauty and indeed when this dam line is properly bred, produces consistently wonderful horses. Both sides of the pedigree are made up of the elite of Crabbet with a smattering of Prince of Wales bloodlines crossed with the Sir Gilbert Clayton import from Saudi Arabia, Dafina, but bred by the Mutyr tribe. That has to be quite a story about Dafina as the Mutyrs were not about to sell their horses to just anyone, indeed if she was sold at all versus taken under some circumstance. The influence is heavily Kuhailan throughout the pedigree but it is definitely an excellent one...Sounds like a fun, robust, athletic filly and wonderful to have both as a broodmare as well as exceptional riding mare. And if I'm not mistaken, is almost entirely GSB...-the only thing keeping her from being GSB is Dafina as the book was closed by the time she arrived on the scene and no amount of pleading by Lady W would reopen it.
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Edited by - Egbert on 07 Feb 2008 10:55:15 PM |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2008 : 12:06:04 PM
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Thank you again for you time Egbert, as soon as I get a decent photo of the latest filly by Safi Amira (x Mostafa) I will post it here for you to see, as she turned out just as you expected :))
Will also let you know what results from the mating this year :))
Egbert your knowledge is unbelieveable and must have taken years of studying and hard work, I wish I knew just a tiny bit of what you know about pedigrees!
Best wishes to you xx |
Angel
Passion Arabians
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Edited by - angel2002 on 11 Feb 2008 10:21:04 AM |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2008 : 09:34:51 AM
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Hi Angel,
Thank you for the kind words and I do so hope to see pictures when it is convenient. |
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willowview
Junior Member
49 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2008 : 4:10:57 PM
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Shown the way here by Gari I just have to say what great reading this whole topic is!!! Now if I could just remember even a smijjin of it......
So educational and relevant, thanks to all.
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Silvern_Scepris
Gold Member
England
1084 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2008 : 7:49:07 PM
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Welcome to AL Willowview!  |
London/Essex Border |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2008 : 8:10:18 PM
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Ditto, welcome Bob... I think we would all love to have a fraction of Gari's knowledge in our heads.
Do you have Arabians too Bob? |
Roseanne |
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Topic |
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Tail Female Line....?
