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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
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moatside
Platinum Member
England
3224 Posts |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Jan 2008 : 11:28:01 AM
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Hi Angel!
Thanks so much. We are still doing clean up/repairs...Amazing damage. They keep saying it is global warming....Personally I'd like to have locked up Al Gore in my house which lost power for 3 days....and explain why the house was registering 0 degrees centigrade. GRRRRR...But I have digressed! Ahem....
Think the cross of Madallan Madheen on your Safi Amira should have the potential to be stunning. It will be a total outcross up close but with the pedigree of both horses combining a goodly number of distant Abbas Pasha lines that are intense for beauty, color and presumably great conformation....Do you have any photos of Safi Amira? Sire line is Nazeer and the dam line is to the Ali Pasha Sherif/Abbas Pasha line mare of Sobha renowned for incredible beauty (think in terms of Silver Fire, Silver Gilt, Silver Sheen....) and companionship, never mind superb athletic ability. Can't wait to see photos!
Hi Kim!
You did a great job! And what a fascinating pedigree! Very imaginative breeding...The sire O-Tejo is to Rabdan via the wonderful Anter, a gorgeous stallion known for his sweetness and loyalty...O-Tejo is a 3/4 straight Egyptian + Crabbet with the dam line tracing to the Blunts', Rodania, a Keheilan Ajuz of the Ibn Rodan-the single most successful dam line ever!
The dam, Mont Blanc is roughly 5/8's Crabbet, 1/4 Egyptian+++( some through Crabbet imports) and 1/8 Polish...with sire line to the Nazeer sire line stallion Ibn Moniet El Nefous, a renowned US straight Egyptian sire whose daughters are treasured worldwide. But the creme de la creme of the entire pedigree is the incredible dam line to Bint Helwa by the enormously successful reimport of the blood via Gara. This is the most exotic and successful of the Abbas Pasha, Seglawi Jedran lines and from this line emerged such greats as British, US National and World Champions as *Carmargue, *Simeon Shai and *FS Bengali, S Justadream, Shalie, Mustapha....
Your Christmas present should prove to be a great riding mare, loving, loyal and a terrific broodmare should you choose to breed her. Have any pictures? Would expect she is very pretty with a lot going for her so you might want to think in terms of showing her as well! In any event what a wonderful Christmas present! |
Edited by - Egbert on 26 Jan 2008 12:07:07 PM |
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rafabreeze
Gold Member
757 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2008 : 11:56:39 AM
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Hi Egbert, Im not sure if you missed my request, but can you tell me about my horse's breeding please, his pedigree is on the following
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/Rafaelpa
for some reason the link doesnt work I must be doing something wrong
but if you could take time to have a look I would be most grateful.
Thanks Georgina
i think is because there is a gap between Rafael and PA and it doesnt read it proerly |
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Edited by - rafabreeze on 26 Jan 2008 12:16:23 PM |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2008 : 12:29:51 PM
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Hi Georgina!
Am so sorry if I missed you! Is this your boy???
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/rafael+pa
Sire line Nazeer via the great, predominately English *Padron, through his great grandson Affirmed by Magnum Psyche. Right off the bat you have phenomenal show winners...And Affirmed's dam, Shimmering Star B is by the *El Shaklan son, the giant chestnut stallion Sharem El Sheikh who stood a minimum of 16h1"...a neck that went forever and was in the words of one of his Scottsdale judges when he went unanimous champion there, "the most perfect of Arabian stallions!" Shimmering Star's tail female was to Rodania via the incredibly beautiful *Raswan daughter, Rose of France, renowned as a phenomenal broodmare with a tremendous legacy of beautiful descendants.
Rafael PA's dam is by the Res. US National Champion, Bey Shah and out of the US National Champion Khemosabi's granddaughter Khirby. Khirby traces back to the wonderful Ali Pasha Sherif line mare Makbula, Keheilat Jellaby whose line was adored by Lady Anne Blunt for a sweet and loving temperament and as a perfect riding horse.
Looks to me like you have a wonderful stallion? Gelding? And a lot of fun! But where is he registered? I can't find him in the US, UK or Brazil where his dam is in the last location listed in the US datasource...
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Edited by - Egbert on 26 Jan 2008 12:45:19 PM |
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georgiauk
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2605 Posts |
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moatside
Platinum Member
England
3224 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2008 : 2:06:22 PM
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Hi Egbert,
Thank you for your kind words about Pearl!
So far I am happy with her, she is rising 5 and until 22nd November she was untouched and living in a herd. She has taken to domesticity well and I think she will be pretty when she has lost her 4 years worth of winter woolies . I am hoping to start working her in spring for my son to ride and I will probably put her in foal in a year or two now I know she has a decent pedigree!Will post some pics soon.
Again, Thank You - much appreciated
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www.spanglefish.com/kasanarhythmbeads/ |
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egyptianstallion
Gold Member
England
762 Posts |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2008 : 11:29:39 PM
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Hi Georgia,
Just want to double check that your boy, Sibelius is in fact by the 1966 Ghibli? If so he looks to be a stallion strongly influenced by Rodania and Dajania as these are the most prominent dam lines throughout the pedigree, thus it is a very strongly Kuhailan pedigree. These are the horses that can do anything asked, work hard all day and are fresh and ready to go the next. If gray then the great Silver Sheen along with the Skowronek descendants would be a major influence in the pedigree and would tend to add an additional level of refinement that would be lacking in the chestnut or bay of the same pedigree.
There is not a lot of information on Hagar, Sibelius's tail female, a Kuhailan Ajuz and the Blunts original journey mare...Suffice it to say she must have been something special considering that they were totally sold on the breed and more determined than ever to acquire Arabians after riding her all over the desert...Moreover they went to the trouble of bringing her home! She had 11-13 foals (the US registry gives 11) which says a lot about her fecundity and strength. About half were bred by the Blunts and the other half by Miss Dillon. Her photos look more like TB and indeed, that is what Lady Anne noted about her that she most resembled a TB than an Arabian which in the early acquisition years, the Blunts selected based on the TB paradigm. Only after their stint in Egypt and Sheykh Obeyd does one see the change to the characteristics and type one associates with the Arabian. |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2008 : 11:46:58 PM
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Hi Folks,
Just a general reminder that no matter how wonderful a pedigree...the individual standing in front of you can be even better or worse than the pedigree's promise. The pedigree is simply a guideline of what could and should be if everything comes together as it would suggest. Mitigating factors are health, care, feed and even National disasters!
Years ago I knew of a couple of horses that were gestating in the wombs of their dams who were grazing in pastures in which the Chernobyl fallout was found to be particularly heavy. One died of cancer very young and the other died in the same year of a huge growth in the stomach-thought to be an enterolith but just as easily a tumor as the horse was never autopsied.
In any event, this is just a cautionary but the most important thing to remember is that the individual standing in front of you is what counts. The pedigree is simply a guide from which there are usually deviations.
One additional thought for what it is worth: A horse that fully reflects the very best elements in his or her pedigree tends to breed reasonably true to it. The horse that is virtually a genetic freak for beauty, for example, sometimes is a disappointment in the breeding shed as his or her babies tend to be not the ultra beautiful of the gorgeous parent but the result of what the pedigree promised. BUT, every so often one of the babies will be as beautiful if not more so than the parent. I think it is a predisposition to somehow mutate to beauty and that it is a genetic promise that travels obviously as a recessive nevertheless expressing not infrequently.
Just keep these things in mind when asking about your horses' pedigrees. |
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Vygoda
Platinum Member
United Arab Emirates
1627 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2008 : 09:06:41 AM
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I so agree with Gari.
I have found that it is so so very difficult to stand back from your own horses and evaluate them phentotypically, and disregard the pedigree (genotype). What are their pieces of perfection conformationally to make the decision on the stallion or mare that could improve their faults also?
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2008 : 09:22:54 AM
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I also agree with Gari, I have seen for myself horse's with a pedigree to die for that are not the least bit like their parents and looks a jumble of all the wrong attributes you would disire in a breeding animal |
   
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2008 : 09:34:20 AM
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Oh dear. Jane could you elaborate on the 'pieces of perfection'? For example, a lot of Kuhailan types one sees in the UK have the Skowronek lack of withers....in that situation you would look for a Skowronek line that is an outcross to your lines, otherwise but can bring forth withers. This is one of the reasons I have loved Carmargue so much...You could cover the old Crabbets and 'lo, he brought back withers! Obviously this came through his Polish lines via Wielki Szlem, Biruta and Latawica....Looking at a total outcross to add the desired correction, one is best off looking at a horse that is very similar in looks/phenotype BUT who brings in a new source for the correction....(hope that makes sense)...
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rafabreeze
Gold Member
757 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2008 : 1:58:52 PM
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Hi Gari,
yes thats my boy Rafael PA, and many thanks for your kind words and your explanation of his pedigree. He is 3 in a couple of months and is already 15:2! He is registered in the UK with the AHS, Volume XX I beleive. I only bought him in December and he was already gelded. We are planning to show him this year, and I know you cant really tell how horses turn out,but he certainly has a good showing pedigree. Again, many thanks for taking the time to check him out for me.
Georgina |
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moatside
Platinum Member
England
3224 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2008 : 6:46:54 PM
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Hi Egbert,
A couple of (not very good!!) pics of Pearl in her winter woolies - a very fetching shade of "rat colour"- playing at being a mud monster
I do hope that my comment about probably putting her in foal now I know she has a decent pedigree was not misunderstood by anyone. What I should have said is that knowing that she has a respectable pedigree will play a part in any decision to breed from her. I would not breed from her until I was confident that she is true to type with good confirmation and temperament. Being involved with equine rescue & rehoming I have sadly seen far too many horses who have been bred "just because"
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www.spanglefish.com/kasanarhythmbeads/ |
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Kirsty5278
Platinum Member
England
2682 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2008 : 7:05:40 PM
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I am desperately trying to catch up on this thread... been reading a little every night - Its a novel!!!
absolutely fasinating!!
I have had a look at my little chap on allpedigree... I've click on the bottom mare and kept clicking through their pedigrees....
The last one I got to is SELMA I....
and it states....
Foundation mare for the Hamdani Simriyah strain. In 2007, there are less than 20 breeding horses of this strain family within Al Khamsa, Asil bloodlines in North America. This strain family is now extinct within Straight Egyptian Arabians, but does exist in Egyptian Sired & Combined Source Al Khamsa breeding as well as lines in non Al Khamsa Crabbet, American Bred, Polish & Russian bloodlines as her daughter SOBHA was exported to Crabbet, Poland & Russia.
His pedigree is http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/sheraz4
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Edited by - Kirsty5278 on 27 Jan 2008 7:06:49 PM |
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justine
Gold Member
England
641 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2008 : 8:45:39 PM
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Hi Egbert
Im fasinated with your knowledge, wish I knew even a fraction that you do.
ok, Im addicted to Ali Jamaal, seen him and his family many times.
I have a mare in foal to aryes el ludjin, my mare is out of illyria el jamaal and by jazzmeen (essteem x jasmyne by nyhl el jamaal). The baby therefore will be 5 x jamaal, 3x bey shah ...... How do you think this will work? Of course it was well studied before the breeding and I hope the baby will be as anticipated. Just interested in your opinion.
kindest regards
justine |
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Vygoda
Platinum Member
United Arab Emirates
1627 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2008 : 06:55:39 AM
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Hi Gari,
What I meant by pieces of perfection was quite simply to look at a horse's good points first and not get carried away by just its negative points. Apologies for not being clear  . |
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Cassie
Gold Member
England
781 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2008 : 1:18:00 PM
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Hi Egbert
Thanks for Klinta pedigree and yes if I do use him what with him being 100% Crabbet and my mare who is 66.75% Crabbet I will be able to show in Crabbet classes.
As for the way they cover the mares Mrs Dorsey said that she will explain more fully how they do it I know my mare will kick theirs and no doubt theirs will kick back. But I don't mind so much if Mrs Dorsey just puts my mare and her stallion in a paddock on their own she's a tart and I don't think she will kick him. |
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angel2002
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2502 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2008 : 2:05:59 PM
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Hi Egbert,
Just glad to hear that you and your family (two legs and four) are all OK.
Here is Safi Amira -
Sorry Egbert....I have real trouble getting photo's on here  Safi Amira is the Liver Chestnut on the far right in my signature picture. There is a larger photo in 'photo Gallery' section on here under 'Angel2002'. It was taken just over 2 years ago by Dean Ingham at UKIAHS where she won a silver medal.
This is only photo I have of her on my PC, if it doesn't show you what you need to see let me know and I will try and download some others.
Best wishes to you and thanks for your time |
Angel
Passion Arabians
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2008 : 02:49:47 AM
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| Message will be reposted in awhile. For some reason or another a partial message posted but not the entire one so will start over. Took an hour to reply and don't know what happened...but it wasn't posted. |
Egbert Elliott |
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georgiauk
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2605 Posts |
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Egbert
Gold Member
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2008 : 10:37:00 AM
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Cassie,
Will look forward to hear about your trip to see Klinta Bashir and what you decide to do.
Georgina,
If Rafael fully reflects his pedigree-what a loss to the breeding community!
Kim,
Pearl looks well balanced and as tho' all is where it should be! Am looking forward to seeing clearer pictures especially when she is without the woolies. Bet she is lovely.
Kirsty,
Your boy is lovely if his pedigree is a measure...Pretty to look at, smooth, short backed, kind, superb action, great limbs...He has multiples of Sobha which with even only one or two lines adds a level of nearly immeasurable quality.
Justine,
Well, you are gutsier than I am. I wouldn't inbreed that much Ali Jamaal and Bey Shah up close on a bet for two reasons-hot show temperament will be over the top 9 times out of 10 and the leg issues can be off the wall. That said, I've seen a couple of instances where it has worked brilliantly. If you are in the UK, I am not as worried. For some reasons horses that have had leg issues in the USA see them disappear in their offspring breeding on in the UK! The foal's tail female line is excellent-reportedly Kuhailan Jellaby but now thought to trace to Ghazieh, a Seglawi Jedran. So would virtually guarantee great beauty, courage, hot temperament, very very showy...with the Bask down on the dam's side of the pedigree, the baby should have excellent action. Can't wait to see the result.
Angel,
Safi Amira is lovely...obviously well put together. Thanks for trying!
Georgia,
Oh good! Thank you! |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
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Tail Female Line....?
