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Azara
Bronze Member
England
203 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Dec 2005 : 4:55:49 PM
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Just thought - I had a purebred Arab mare on breeding loan many years ago, she was sabino and had a high proportion of roaning in her coat and a very light almost white mane and tail, even in maturity. She bred a roan colt foal (but not for me!) called Count Zaref (I think)
Do you remember Friedel Keren? |
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georgiauk
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2605 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2005 : 08:00:42 AM
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| Does anyone have a picture of a plum coloured Arab? and do they always have flaxen manes? |
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Pashon2001
Platinum Member
3575 Posts |
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georgiauk
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2605 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2005 : 7:22:26 PM
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Any chance of making the pic a bit bigger, my eyesights not what it used to be lol How is she bred? |
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Chris James
Silver Member
United Kingdom
497 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2005 : 7:41:32 PM
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This is fascinating Keren, I just didn't realise until recently that my Kami/Rishmuna mare (bright chestnut, flaxen mane & tail, high white with belly spots and white lower lip) who we lost this year at 23yrs old was a sabino. I've been trying to breed coloured for some time and have her coloured daughter by Oberon, wish I'd realised sooner as I could have tried sending her to purebred sabinos. I also bred a chocolate/plum (?)filly by Crystal MAgician (now with Anne Clarke in Eire) who has bred palaminos, don't know if that's relevant.
However I'm amazed that the very araby looking Welsh section A filly foal that I've just bought is chestnut high white + lower lip and has a grey mane & tail and has several pure arabs in her pedigree including King Cyrus whose dam's sire is Mesaoud in 1887 - has this colouration really carried through from then?? |
Chris James
http://home2.btconnect.com/cjames-arabians |
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gu-ku-vi
Gold Member
Denmark
744 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2005 : 10:25:20 PM
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Hej!!
Marbon Mead is 100 % crabbet and sabino to, but of course not plum coloured.
Gunni. |
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templars
Platinum Member
England
1852 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2005 : 10:37:46 AM
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Oh wow - this is fascinating! Till now, I've not really read these threads about colours but now I have, I'm hooked. We have high percentage Crabbets (plus 3 100%) and they all have the colouring you mention with most of them having the white bottom lip (plus what I call the "black Crabbet blob"), long white socks (sometimes right up above the stifle). One line has the roaning colour, it's impossible to tell what colour they are grey, brown, bay, silver or black!!! with silve manes and tails. One line is predominantly grey with long white legs. One line is chestnut with long white socks, flaxen manes and tails and white belly blobs.
My dream has been to breed what I called a liver chestnut with a flaxen mane and tail. Reading this, I now know I meant a plum colour with a flaxen mane and tail. Anyone have any idea about a suitable stallion to use???
thanks |
   www.eviepeel.com    |
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heathermcbreen
Platinum Member
England
2132 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2005 : 2:54:53 PM
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| I think sorrento (wales) may be the liver/plum colour and he has been described as having an "orange" mane and tail he also has 4 socks and blaze and is by Imad by Golden Cavalier!!! |
Edited by - heathermcbreen on 28 Dec 2005 2:58:13 PM |
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emmaD
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
137 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2005 : 5:22:33 PM
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I have been a busy bunny of late and only just came accoss this thread
this is a picture of my Gelding by Saiyid el Kheil (sire malik el Keil) out of wind chime (sire king cotton gold).
would he be classed as a plum colour?
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y68/windwizard/wizarddabbs2sml.jpg |
Put your ass on some class....ride an arab! |
Edited by - emmaD on 28 Dec 2005 5:24:43 PM |
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Pashon2001
Platinum Member
3575 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2005 : 6:47:02 PM
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Lynn - We aim to please, is this better, I will try to get more of her when her summer coat comes through, she is very unusually coloured which doesnt show in this winter shot.
She is by Rahjeel Eastern Promise (Liver chestnut) out of bint Katarina (Plum). |
     
www.jarvastud.com http://hocon.webs.com/ |
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Basilisk
Gold Member
United Kingdom
521 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2005 : 8:05:06 PM
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Unfortunately I don't have any colour photos of 'plums', which is why I put out my request!
'Plum' is different from typical liver, but it is very difficult to express that difference in words: however, if you check your pedigrees, and you have horses tracing to Zehraa, you are more likely to have a liver than a 'plum' .
Another thing to look for is a mane that isn't blond but the grey/white colour mentioned by another contributor to this thread...this is true 'flaxen' (ie, the colour of unbleached linen) as opposed to the yellow/blond most people think of as 'flaxen'. Yellow/blond m/ts on chestnuts are frequently the result of sabino, rather than being the 'plum thing' :D
Keren |
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Azara
Bronze Member
England
203 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2005 : 8:09:34 PM
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Can I just repeat the question I asked earlier on in the thread please?
"Can I just clarify what you mean by the term 'silver dapple'? This is a colour that occurs in Icelandic horses, Highlands and the Rocky Mountain Pony. My own Icelandic mare is a silver dapple carrier."
Are we talking about the same colour factor and genetics? As technically the classic silver dapple colour is the expression of the dominant Z gene. |
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georgiauk
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2605 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2005 : 8:32:18 PM
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| Rheannon, your pic just shows a red X in a box? Or is it just my puter? |
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Pashon2001
Platinum Member
3575 Posts |
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Basilisk
Gold Member
United Kingdom
521 Posts |
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zara
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1066 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2005 : 11:24:39 AM
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SILVER DAPPLE
"A third colour diluting gene..........the colour occurs (rarely) in horses as well as ponies, probably more often seen in Europe than Noth America" ( Bowling 1996)
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"to his virtues ever kind, and to his faults a little blind". |
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zara
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1066 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2005 : 11:32:01 AM
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" the trailt is inherited as a dominant, but the gene action, in combination with varients at other coat colour genes is poorly documented......the gene may show dosage differences between homozygus and heterozygus states. currently Z is often used as the gene symbol for silver dapple, but a standard terminology has not been adopted.
Bay or black exceptions to the colour rule maybe explained by the presence of silver dapple in one parent. that is, an A-E- bay with the silver dapple gene may appear to be a chestnut . when this is bred to a chestnut offspring receiving E but not the dilution gene, would be, legitimately bay or black." ( Bowling 1997) hope this helps, jill |
"to his virtues ever kind, and to his faults a little blind". |
Edited by - zara on 30 Dec 2005 11:34:37 AM |
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zara
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1066 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2005 : 11:49:11 AM
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| so this leads me on to say that i think this may explain why sometimes a black arab appears unexpectedly. that is, its parent, or parents were genetically black but didnt appear so because of the silver dapple diluting gene, that is, the parent wasnt ee ( chestnut) so could pass on the E gene ( in its undiluted form). |
"to his virtues ever kind, and to his faults a little blind". |
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zara
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1066 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2005 : 11:50:35 AM
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| does anyone have any information about the" bloody shoulder"? a sort of reverse roaning? |
"to his virtues ever kind, and to his faults a little blind". |
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Basilisk
Gold Member
United Kingdom
521 Posts |
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Sally
Bronze Member
England
120 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2006 : 6:55:49 PM
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I absolutely love the colours that appear in the Arab breeds like this. What a shame, I found out that in the USA they are automatically gelded as deemed not breedable for their show scene.
Sally |
Sally Terry
Midlands West Arabians
sally.terry@realign.ltd.uk |
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Pashon2001
Platinum Member
3575 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2006 : 8:17:34 PM
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| I too think that 'colour' should not matter, nor white markings, who is to say what is too much white? I remember a few years ago seeing a grey mare at towerlands with a large 'bloody shoulder' mark right across her face!! And she came in the top five!! |
www.jarvastud.com http://hocon.webs.com/ |
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Deboniks
Platinum Member
England
3776 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2006 : 9:22:00 PM
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[img]http://www.geocities.com/sabinoarabs/
[img] This is quite an interesting link |
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Deboniks
Platinum Member
England
3776 Posts |
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Azara
Bronze Member
England
203 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2006 : 11:46:04 AM
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Fascinated to read about the splash white/blue-eyed gene in Arabians on the above link - now that is an interesting quirk in genetics and I wondered recently if this occured in Arabs. I have been looking at importing a splash pinto Icelandic filly - but a splash pinto Arab would be stunning!
Thanks all for explaining that the silver dapple colouration is the same as that in Icelandics. |
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