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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
 United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
 Posted - 08 May 2005 : 12:36:40 PM
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Were there any positive conclusions to the meeting so far I have not been able to assess the situation from the few comments made. I am sure we would all like to know if anything constructive is about to happen within the society who exactly was missing of the council members? and who was there representing the AHS members interest's? so many questions , so few answers as yet .
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JACK
Silver Member
England
315 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 1:23:56 PM
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Hi there, I can not say much on the matter as most council members are also judges and I don`t want to come down the line. To be quite honest I was appauled at the answers given to our questions. I felt as though the book was been passed around from piller to post. All I could here is
" I`m sorry we can not answer that question, we do not have the correct information with us "
If a client asks me, why does my horses still have a winter coat in July, maybe my response should be, I`m sorry I do not have the correct equiptment.
I went to try and understand and all I can gather from the meeting was there are lots of issues with council and this is now reflecting on the society. I am sorry we have lost some of the council members. They have all worked hard over the years and I feel we now have not got many left who will actually do something about something.
One name is Jean-Mary, she has always helped me in my hour of need and done her upmost to forsee the ease of bringing horses to the National show.
As for important members of council not being there 
I come from other societies and you have none of this. Council is the back bone of the society, I think this is where some of our problems come from. I am a young enthusiastic professional joining the Arabian world, showing and training is hard enough but to have to but up with all this too. To difficult.
I PERSONALLY THINK WE NEED A TOTAL RE-STRUCTURE OF COUNCIL!!
Thanks for your time  |
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JACK
Silver Member
England
315 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 1:25:24 PM
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| Well Lynda, what really is there to say. I believe they were all just empty promises. |
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Sadika
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3520 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 1:27:55 PM
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Sorry you haven't been able to assess the situation from comments given - I'm surprised that so far only 2 of the people present have posted. I dashed off as soon as the meeting finished so I didn't stay to chat etc so not sure how other people saw it...I'll start with some facts: about 80 members present (I thought there would have been more make the effort to be there given what's happened and that Stratford is more or less the middle of England - sorry I know Scotland is miles away...).
Council present:
Mrs Hedley (Chair); Mrs Bridges; Mrs Sussex; Dr Alexander.
Mr Guinness was at Badminton with Tamarillo; Mrs Lowe judging (abroad I think). Apologies were not read out but these came up during the course of the meeting. Mr Upton gave apologies for Mrs Green (Welfare Officer).
Council candidates Mr Ratcliffe, Mrs Stephens, Mrs Reeves, Mrs Whittome were present - Mrs Woodward (Welfare Officer), Mrs Grant and Mr Guinness were not.
As said on my previous postings the 2004 minutes were gone through at length - several items were queried and asked had action been taken eg the business plan which hadn't happened. Mrs Bridges now has this (only had for past 3 weeks - don't know where it had been for the rest of the time...) Mrs Hedley guaranteed this would be available to members in 3 months time.
It was obviously a difficult meeting - as expressed by Mrs Hedley who, given the recent resignations had to decide whether to postpone the AGM or carry on. She had taken legal advice and obviously consulted the rest of Council and the AGM went ahead.
My opinion: I think the message was got over loud and clear that something has to happen and happen sooner rather than later. That the members should be kept informed - there was total agreement that members should (and indeed do) have access to the Council minutes - unfortunately the minutes that went on the website were too personal and detailed and certainly displayed the meeting in the worst light possible. Yes there were unsatifactory answers given (for example the finances) as the info wasn't there BUT we now have a full Council with some new members of it and HOPEFULLY they can work together and address the issues. Several well-respected and life long Members expressed their dismay about the Feb minutes and general attitude of Council. Re the accounts - the rep from the accountants stated that these were actually more detailed than the law required. Mrs Hedley agreed that more detailed ones eg show, magazine would be available in future. Somebody said that some past accounts (when Mr Upton was President) had been better - done per committee so each aspect's finances could be seen and maybe that will happen again. My feeling is that recent happenings have delivered a LOUD wake-up call - Council have a long agenda following this meeting and they know they will be expected to act and report back within time limits. |
Marilyn
     
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Sadika
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3520 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 1:34:10 PM
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Re: I believe they were all just empty promises."
I hope you are wrong Jack - give them a chance...
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Marilyn
www.sweetphotography.com ** Now available online Our 2016 Galleries ** |
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JACK
Silver Member
England
315 Posts |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 3:47:29 PM
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Many thanks Marylyn  the most detailed report so far, Wayne did you ask any questions? and if so what did you ask that was not answered to your satisfation? was welfare talked about? are the new council members going to stay as unelected? or are we still going to be able to vote our chosen members in. could there be any sort of AGM meeting at Malvern? that would be a good time to have one. why was the last AGM meeting min's posted on our site considered too personal for us to see?( I know many people are thinking Why the hell didnt you get off your butt and go to the meeting yourself I did have my reason's) can anyone else add their opinion of the meeting? |
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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Sadika
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3520 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 4:11:50 PM
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Sorry it's only me again!
Welfare was mentioned - probably not enough as that's supposed to be a BIG part of charitable status? Unfortunately the two welfare officers were not there.
After the 4 elected people had been announced, a vote at the meeting was mentioned re the remaining 3. There was some disquiet in the room re this as some people felt this should be put to the whole membership. I asked that if the vote was taken to the membership would others beable to stand. I was told no.
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Marilyn
www.sweetphotography.com ** Now available online Our 2016 Galleries ** |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 4:54:30 PM
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Hello, been at a show (non Arab) so out of contact. I took quite detailed notes to begin with but tailed off as discussion got a bit disjointed. I wonder who took the minutes??? I can see Wayne's worries, it wasn't comfortable asking difficult questions to people you know are judges!!
The three new members will only be so for a year, until 2006. One was Wizzy (Caroline Reeves who was there), Pat Grant (who couldn't be there) and
Someone asked why only £410 had been spent on welfare and was told the two governors who had been attached to welfare were working with the ILPH and Happa (?) and the inference was that those organisations were implementing welfare retrieval/contact after liaison with the AHS welfare governors.
There was a motion that there should be no doubling up of AHS positions where a conflict of interest might arise, i.e. governors who were also council members with different responsibilties for various areas.
Stallion licensing was raised but rejected on the basis of possible legal action from people whose stallions were already standing at stud and may not be 'graded' to a high enough level to be licensed.
Someone asked about promotion, also as one of the charity's objectives and Mrs Hedley said the council had focussed cash for that into the AHS magazine. Someone else described that as 'preaching to the converted'. Another member and I offered to produce a press and marketing pack for studs, individuals etc so they can have a step by step guide to getting free publicity on radio, in mags and newspapers - to be offered free to any member - but there was no indication whether they want to take that up or not. One of the new members seemed quite keen to put that forward in a forthcoming council meeting.
I'll find my notes and add some more in a bit. Forgotten a lot as there was much talk. Meeting went on for 3 - 4 hours...
Back soon. |
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pat ww
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3459 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 5:09:45 PM
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From the floor I do think Mrs Hedley had a tough job. What appears to have happened is that some members of council had taken responsibility for certain actions, and others were quite legitimately asking what progress had been made.
hence when the s*** hit the fan with the recent resignations, the remaining council members did not have a clue where they were up to, and I for one will give the remaining members full benefit of the doubt to show that they will in fact keep the promises made at the AGM.
it remains to be seen how a council with only 5 out of 12 'original' plus those who sought and got re-elected, how having so much 'new blood' will work out.
4 were elected as of right by number of votes cast. the remianing 3 were, as per consititution apparently, allowed on to fill vacancies for one year only.
This means of course that next year there will be 7 vacancies again up for election, not too good for the stability of the society.
it does seemed though that maybe some of the new council still has old allegiences to past members. we all regret the resignations, but whats done is done.
What is needed is to put the past aside and look forward, or personality clashes and egoism will do no-one any favours.
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Tracey@ET
Gold Member
England
539 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 5:19:15 PM
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| THEN IF THERE IS QUESTIONS NOT ANSWERED BY COUNCIL AT THE MOMENT WE WILL HAVE TO KEEP ASKING UNTIL WE AS MEMBERS ARE HAPPY WITH THE OUTCOME. WE COULD CONTACT COUNCIL REPS AND GIVE THEM ARE QUESTIONS AND ASK THEM TO FIND ANSWERS, AFTER ALL WE VOTED FOR THEM THEY WORK FOR US THE MEMBERS. ITS ARE DUTY NOW TO WATCH CAREFULLY AS TO WHATS HAPPENING TO ARE PRECIOUS SOCIETY FOR THE ARABIAN HORSES FUTURE. |
  
www.el-tahira.co.uk |
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JACK
Silver Member
England
315 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 5:25:17 PM
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Thanks Roseanne. By the way, good to put a face to the name now. Had to dash off, one of the mares had just had first ever foal. We have a little Spanish filly.
I did not ask questions Lynda as they had been asked already also the fact of the matter is there were four judges sat up there. It is hard to build a good name for myself in this industry as you know - to have it taken away just like that. The questions I had were the questions we all wanted answering, those of us who could make the meeting. (No punt at you Lynda chucks xx) as Marilyn said I would have liked to of seen some more faces member and even our breeders.
There were many questions which where not answered in a satisfactory manner to me!! But hey I just little old me.
YES I have my worries and concerns and YES I was not happy, but I admit I hope in time things will turn around, and I hope to do this it does not mean putting more cost and prices up for members. As one member of council suggested. It cost 70 pounds to keep one member. WHAT DO WE GET WORTH SEVENTY pounds.
NO PRIZE MONEY
NO FANCY ROSETTES
NO FANCY SASHES
NO OWNERS PARTY AT OUR BRITISH NATIONAL SHOW!!!!
I am not going on, I am meaning to say yes I will give them a chance but I have heard it all before.
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pat ww
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3459 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 5:49:14 PM
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I did raise the point of the £70 'service cost' per member
Just look at the thread on member benefits to see the effect a £46 subscription has on potential membership.
if the AHS WERE MAD ENOUGH TO TRY AND RAISE IT TO ITS 'COST', THAT WOULD INEVITABLY LEAD TO REDUCED MEMBERSHIP, AND THEN THE 'COST' TO SERVICE EACH MEMBER WOULD RISE AGAIN.
Vicious circle. What they should be looking at is WHY the costs are £70, when we get so little and even the newsletter is paid for by advertisers, and volunteer committess do all the work around events.
yes we do need answers, but give them a few months to find their feet.
Then shout!!! |
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S.Green
Bronze Member
England
84 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 6:03:56 PM
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As one of the ordinary little members, of whom there are far more in our society, I can not understand why it should bother or concern anyone, to have to ask a judge on counsil an awkward question ?
Why would one think this may lead to going down the line?
Surely OUR judges, judge the horses in front of them, on their own merit regardless of who the handler is!!! or have I read the rules wrong?
Could this be a part of why our society is getting into such a state these days, too much politics and not enough concern for the breed and all its wonderfull atributes, regardless of ownerships? |
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Micky
Silver Member
308 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 6:19:40 PM
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Jack
Don't you think that judges read whats on this forum? You dont have to be seen to be known! |
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BobandEna
Gold Member
England
828 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 6:22:19 PM
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quote:
Council present:
Mrs Hedley (Chair); Mrs Bridges; Mrs Sussex; Dr Alexander.
Mr Guinness was at Badminton with Tamarillo; Mrs Lowe judging (abroad I think). Apologies were not read out but these came up during the course of the meeting. Mr Upton gave apologies for Mrs Green (Welfare Officer).
Council candidates Mr Ratcliffe, Mrs Stephens, Mrs Reeves, Mrs Whittome were present - Mrs Woodward (Welfare Officer), Mrs Grant and Mr Guinness were not.
So, on the biggest day in the life of the AHS it appears some big players, didn't want to be in the blitz and opted for the safety of the air raid shelter instead, DO YOU WANT TO BE IN THIS REGIMENT a regiment were officers go A.W.O.L when you come under fire, were the regimental HQ allows it to happen, (PART OF THE OLD PALS ACT). I don't, I want leaders who can lead from the front when the kitchen gets HOT.
Politicians, love them or hate them, they have the decency to turn up at their constituencies, when the votes are being counted.
It looks like business as usual down on the farm, the funny thing is these farmers don't seem to understand what Foot and Mouth can do.
IS IT TIME FOR THE BIRTH OF THE ARAB HORSE ORGANISATION (AHO)?????
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Sadika
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3520 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 6:24:22 PM
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Mrs Hedley said it had been worked out that it cost £70 to service each member. She definately said she had no plans to suggest putting the membership fee to that level - obviously all that would happen is that even fewer people would join - and a downward spiral would soon spring into action...we need NEW members, including active ones who will do something with their Arabs and take them into the public view in a positive way...there is still so much of the negative - WHY do people with an Arab or an interest in the breed NOT join? Evidently they feel they don't get enough for their money. What can we (the Members) offer to Council as suggestions that could turn this arround? ALiners out there - are you a Member of any other society? What made you pay your subs?
I think we should try and get it that the AGM be held during the National Show - that's the only way there will be a good proportion of members present.
I am not a fan of pure criticism - having said that of course I'd like everything in the garden to be rosey - to be perfect - but know I have to accept it won't be - the world has too many who are quick to criticise, slow to praise, indifferent unless something affects them directly (and please note: I am NOT pointing the finger at anybody here, just speaking generally as I have it often in my job as a teacher) - I realise that sometimes criticism is warranted - BUT PLEASE give the new Council a chance - I am not on anybody's "side" here - I regret that it came to resignations but it did and maybe we've had a "wake up" call too...we need to be more active and offer suggestions and help - for instance the working party for the show always needs volunteers. Do you realise that last year the main ring stewards had virtually no break (neither had I but that was my choice not to miss anything!) - they will be at least 2 stewards down this year...back at Ascot there were 3 or 4 times the number of stewards and less rings... |
Marilyn
www.sweetphotography.com ** Now available online Our 2016 Galleries ** |
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Sadika
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3520 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 6:31:33 PM
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Gosh I took so long to write the above several people posted during that time!
Dear Bob
Must reiterate: apologies were not read out and the reasons for two absences only came out "in passing" since the meeting's date was changed maybe some of them couldn't change their plans? I know one council member who has a seriously ill partner and could not be expected to attend. |
Marilyn
www.sweetphotography.com ** Now available online Our 2016 Galleries ** |
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S.Green
Bronze Member
England
84 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 6:32:10 PM
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If things dont get any better you can put me down for membership of the AHO The racing people did it and are still going strong, so just maybe?
Fancy starting the ball rolling BOB!!! |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 6:55:10 PM
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Hi, me back again with the notebook. Let's hope I don't press the wrong button and lose everything. If I do this in stages bear with me...
The subject of gift aid came up and why, as a charity, the AHS hadn't taken advantage of getting 28p in the £ back. It would have needed the signature of each member who gave money that could have fitted into the charity bracket. Personally I think if the AHS is a charity, all the money given or received by the society should come into that bracket.
I think this was another area where those present had not been involved so couldn't explain why nothing had been done, although someone in the audience said this had been brought up at the last AGM so something should have by rights... The meeting asked for an undertaking that taking advantage of gift aid would be done asap and I think it was accepted. I'm sure they will as it means a lot of money when you're dealing with so many thousands of pounds... I think Wizzy will be following this one up.
Some time was spent on passports and why the society had charged only £10 when other organisations had been charging more from the outset. The meeting was told passport dispensation was making the society money (£43,000 in the year to last November) and that the price was competitive and fair and had been decided as the price during the run-up to the necessity for them becoming law.
Will post this in case it gets lost and add some more in a bit.
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 7:04:48 PM
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There was a longish discussion over why a rather large cheque had had to be paid for blood typing which had been done two years before but the laboratory hadn't billed the society properly til last year. Some people felt that the cost should have been anticipated and the money put aside so it didn't require such a large single outlay. The auditor said the society's reserves were comfortable.
Someone asked for a breakdown of costs for the AHS magazine and the national show. Marilyn's point about better separation of accounts came up here and it was certainly taken on board that members wanted to see greater transparency on what was being spent - as much as anything else, so members could help council to redress the balances!
One member called for proper budgeting and promotion, describing the Arab blood as our 'golden asset' which should be promoted at every opportunity. There was some criticism of the society's financial forecasting here.
Another said the regional groups were doing most of the promotion...
Mrs Hedley announced the resignations and thanked each of those who had stepped down for their value to the society.
The third person adopted for the coming year with Wizzy and Pat Grant was Nola Stephens.
More in a mo. |
Roseanne |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 7:08:18 PM
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Before anyone gets carried away with the idea of an alternative organisation, WAHO will only recognise one registry per country which so far as the UK is concerned is the AHS. Setting up an alternative would mean no ECAHO shows, no exports etc etc unless ones horses were also registered with the AHS. So why bother??
Mike |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 7:20:18 PM
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The Anglo Arabs (Franglos) subject took quite a time to discuss with the traditionalists calling for 'our' Anglos to remain the TB Arab cross only. Mrs Hedley reassured members that those which amounted to Euro sporty-part-bred Araby-Warmbloods, depending on who was talking, that those Section II anglos (if the decision were made to adopt the European move) would never be able to be elevated to Section I, no matter how they were bred with Section 1s. Some members were 'horrified' by the prospect and one highly experienced member said there was no specification of what breeds would be accepted as the 1/16th 'other' blood which amounted to people being asked to sign a blank cheque. There were a number of proxy votes cast and the rest was up to the members present and the vote fell by just two votes!! So no Franglos or Section 2 at this stage. One member did say that the motion has been represented a few times in the past.
NB You'll notice I'm not naming the members who said things as they may not want their names bandied around on AL.
One long time member said the resignations had resulted in an unease among members and lamented that anyone should 'dread' attending council meetings. There followed lively discussion on the 'leak' of the February minutes onto the AHS website, who had authorised that, who had had them removed. (Thought of giving the answers there but I've decided against it since it could be seen by everyone in the world...) Council felt they were far too personal and that dirty linen should not have been washed for everyone across the world to see. (Thought of giving the answers there but I've decided against it since it could be seen by everyone in the world...) Someone said that act of putting them on the website had caused maximum damage to the society.
Back soon...
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Sadika
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3520 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 7:25:16 PM
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I was quite amazed nobody brought up the subject of the magazine until I did right at the end and by then the meeting was being drawn to a close ...there had been ALOT to discuss and not enough time to do justice to all I'm afraid. ECAHO's attitude/rule? about trainers/handlers being judges was brought up but I don't think that got a conclusive answer.
I think between us we've got most of it down now...
The magazine will be discussed at the next Council meeting so no idea when the next issue will be...
Mike is right about "alternative" organisations. We've got the basic "structure" lets ALL work together and build something we can ALL be proud of - if each and every member does SOMETHING positive, no matter how small and maybe insignificant it may initially appear it can make a BIG difference!. I've recently had dealings with the TWO socs for coloureds - CHAPS and BSPA and I certainly wouldn't want to see 2 (rival) organisations concerened with breeding/registering/showing Arabians even if it was possible... |
Marilyn
www.sweetphotography.com ** Now available online Our 2016 Galleries ** |
Edited by - Sadika on 08 May 2005 7:28:04 PM |
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JACK
Silver Member
England
315 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 7:42:46 PM
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Hey Shirley and Michaela,
That is not fare.
1. I am not here to explain my own actions, remember I was there. I am not going to argue over the internet with people. This is my opinion. If you had a question and it has not been answered you had more than enough prompts from Judith Evans and Justin Harrison who were asking for people to come forward with questions as they were reps for AL (I think!!). Please don`t make this a personal attak at me!!
2. Of course if a judge does not like who is on the end of a horse this would more then certenly go against being a winner or champ come on this is the real world. This is what happens - (SHOWIG).
Thank You
Wayne |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2005 : 7:44:54 PM
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Just to conclude, there was a question of whether minutes would be accurately recorded or on a 'need-to'know' basis. Someone asked whether they could be posted on the website. Someone asked if they could be sent to members by email and someone suggested a 'secure' part of the AHS website where people could access the minutes by using their membership number as a pin.
It was also mentioned that without those 'leaked' minutes members would never have really known what was going on.
As Marilyn said very little was said about the AHS News and I think that's something people will have to lobby council members about. I was in a brief discussion after and there were three opinions among four members on whether it should go back to being a twice yearly, precious and collectable document, continue as six times a year or perhaps down to quarterly. In that discussion (nothing to do with the meeting I must stress!!) someone said they felt members thought part of their membership was for the magazine production and without it they'd have nothing to be a member for...
I would like there to be openness and transparency in the society. I can't believe members of an organisation where we're all basically dedicated to the same objective - our Arab or Arab cross horses, breeding, showing, promoting, protecting - but there can be any secrecy at all.
I'd like to repeat my offer to do anything I can to help - whether it's talks to riding clubs about anything where we can promote our horses including showing etc, helping with the AHS news or helping the society/groups/individuals with publicity.
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