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alethea
Platinum Member
 United Kingdom
1526 Posts |
 Posted - 26 May 2009 : 7:11:59 PM
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I know this may sound random but if anyone who reads this has an arabian horse for sale please pm me as i have important information about a buyer who is looking to buy at the moment and needs to be avoided at all costs!! Obviously cant name names on here for legal reasons!
Alethea
Aristotle Arabians
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CatQueen
Gold Member
England
545 Posts |
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Rui
AL Admin
6761 Posts |
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precious
Platinum Member
England
2253 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 08:11:47 AM
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Thanks Rui good cases should be kept up :)
Pmed u Alethea
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Gemma Thompson
Birmingham West Midlands
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taranstorm
Gold Member
Wales
952 Posts |
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Gerri
Platinum Member
England
4211 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 08:42:56 AM
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| I know you can't name names, but why should you warn people against them unless they have been done for cruelty or neglect and not because they are not liked by someone or have been bad mouthed by someone else? if its because they have been found to do any of these things, that can be said without naming names. I put a post on here yesterday to say I am looking to buy and I would hate to think that someone would say anything about me because they have listened to something that is untrue, but there again I am known to vets and farriers to be a fabulous home for any animal and have even had vets ask me to take horses on that owners have needed to part with through ill health etc, but I know that I have people who for whatever reason do not like me and would gladly stick the knife in, sadly that is human nature, but I think people should know what is being said about them and given the chance to defend themselves |
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pat ww
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3459 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 08:56:46 AM
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Sorry Gerri but the innocent do need to know. I am in private communication with a group of people, so nothing going public, but there is one dealer who has had several horses advertised recently in different mediums who has just now been officially prosecuted by the RSPCA, and another person with an ongoing investigation which hopefully will lead to prosecution.
There have been horses sold / sold for meat from loan homes. if a name given in confidence to a current seller prevents any of the above why can sharing knowledge be a bad thing?
I am sure an explanation will be given to any seller who needs to know, it is then up to them as to what they do in relation to their own horse for sale. |
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pat ww
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3459 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 09:01:38 AM
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Also forgot to say, when I was looking for a home for my colt I noticed someone who had a wanted advert in.
Someone who is not a 'nobody', but saw them recently and watching the way a horse was handled by that person am truly glad my horse did not go there.
Obviously cannot name any thing more specific in case the person is identified. |
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Gerri
Platinum Member
England
4211 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 09:09:11 AM
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yes, I totally agree with you on that score, but although names cannot be posted on here, surely you can say that there is a buyer you need to be warned about because.................... and then give the name when pm'd?
I just thought "panic " as I posted on here yesterday that I am looking to buy and I know that I have upset a few people in my time with my straight, blunt talking, and can at times be very opinionated, but I would hate someone be put off selling their horse to me because someone did not like me and their judgement be clouded because of that as my animals have the best of everything and spoilt rotten to the point of riddiculous if I am honest, but don't worry always take things really personally its one of my biggest failings, if something goes missing and I am somewhere I panic and search and search until its found in case someone thinks its something to do with me, I think its called hyper sensitive????? but I totally agree with you in the case of the loaning scam, to me that is heartbreaking for the owner and the poor horses, these people NEEED NAMING AND SHAMING, but I do worry that someone will stand in the way of me buying a horse and giving it a fabulous home just because they do not like me, when we had the farm we had this happen and we ended up best friends with someone who did not contact us because something was said and she was forever saying, "oh why did I listen to them" we are still good friends to this day, in fact she rang me yesterday to ask if she could come next month for a weeks holiday, soooo talk can be a powerful weapon against the innocent too although great against the guilty. |
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shah
Gold Member
England
1356 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 09:22:00 AM
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| This swings both ways. I'm looking too and have been warned a couple of times offline about sellers, which I've been hugely grateful for. I don't want to go somewhere and risk my life riding something that really shouldn't be ridden!! I'm sure Alethea has a very good reason for her post and I don't think that those of us who can offer a 5* star home with references have anything to worry about. |
West Sussex |
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Joto
Gold Member
855 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 09:48:05 AM
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| If people have been proecuted for cruelty then surely they can be named? |
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Gerri
Platinum Member
England
4211 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 09:52:36 AM
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| I agree with that, or they should be!!!!!!!I get miffed off because the law always seems to protect the guilty!!! I also think that if people see things they should be able to take pictures and post on the webb, that way alot more people would think about what they did, when I bought my stallion he stood knee high in muck with no water or hay in his box and his feet were terrible, I took pictures of him when I first got him and pictures a month later, you would never believe it was the same horse. |
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alethea
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1526 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 10:02:39 AM
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Gerri
The person in question bought a horse from me last year and it has recently been returned to me from them in a terrible condition, could quite easily pass as a cruelty case.
The same person is now actively looking to buy another arab and i feel very sorry for the poor horse that gets purchased by them. Im trying to avoid a repeat of what has happened to my clients horse, hence my post on here. Hope this clears things up for you abit.
Alethea
Aristotle Arabians
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angelarab
Platinum Member
Wales
2876 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 10:58:07 AM
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forewarned is fore armed, Althea your being a responsible horse lover,  to you. |
 "Until one has loved an animal, part of their soul remains unawakened."
www.northwalesarab.co.uk |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 11:11:56 AM
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| would it not be a good idea to have admin hold a written list of people who have been prosecuted for cruelty? then we can at least ask if the buyer in question is on that list? also maybe a list of people who haven't been prosecuted but have been found to neglect or harm horses ? |
   
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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Pasha
Platinum Member
England
3622 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 11:17:37 AM
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Oh Alethea, how awful! Hope the horse is ok now?
Sx |
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Gerri
Platinum Member
England
4211 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 11:59:00 AM
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OMG!!!! I am soooo sooo sorry, I did not know, you are remarkably diplomatic, I think I would have been screaming from the roof tops how awful for you and your poor horse. I have to say that the idea that lyndilou has is a brilliant idea, could we not do that? I can't see that that would be a problem and it would certainly safegaurd our poor horses, its hard enough to sell a horse emotionally but it would be alot easier if we knew for certain that the buyer would do their best to love and care for the horses they from people who have sold them to them, I for one would most definitely back a scheme like that to safegaurd both the sellers and the buyers. again I am so sorry about your horse, you must be gutted, you are doing the right thing, just pm everyone that is selling, and they inturn will tell thier friends and hopefully all avenues will be closed to this person, I have bought lots of cruelty cases in my time and ALL of them have returned to full health through good food and basic veterinary care even a 20 year old tb that was totally emaciated that she could hardly stand up, it took a year but we got her back and had her for several years before having to have her pts. my stallion stood in a yard full of horses in the same condition as him, it was heartbreaking but at least we bought him and he has never looked back. |
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marionpack
Gold Member
England
1073 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 12:11:01 PM
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I can see both sides of the fence, having been to see a few with the view to buy, there was one that I saw, the advert said it had a mild heart murmor and that the vet had said it would never cause a problem, saw the horse, left the deposit but wanted the heart murmer checked out after exercise, the owner then rang me to say that the vet had been and that there was no change in the heart in the last 5 years, and on that note I agreed to pick him up that week-end, but decided to ring the vet myself just to make sure, the out come was that the heart murmor was very serious and could not cope with what I wanted to do, I then told the owner that I wouldn't be having the horse. THE ADVERT WAS THEN ALTERED TO SAY THAT THE HORSE WAS RE-ADVERTISED DUE TO A TIME WASTER, presumably me, in my oponion it was my time and money that was wasted as the owner did not tell the truth, so to cut a long story short, was she then telling people that if I rang up about a horse be very careful and that I was not a suitable owner
Sorry to rant but it does get me angry when sellers can lie about their horses to sell them (I know that everybody is not the same but I do seem to keep finding them) but then I suppose buyers can also lie so when do you start to trust people! |
Berkshire
   
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Gerri
Platinum Member
England
4211 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 12:17:03 PM
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| thats what I was trying to say earlier, but on the other side of the coin to have your horse returned or find its way back to you in a dreadful state must be heartbreaking, I would go off my head if that happened to one of mine, so yes there can be victims on both sides but its the horses that suffer the worse in all circumstances and to have to send a horse back to a terrible home after you have spent a year nursing it and getting it round can be awful too, which is what happened to us a few years ago, but that is another story and it broke my heart, I still think about her and whatever became of her, i just would never go there again. |
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alethea
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1526 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 1:55:45 PM
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Marion,
I appreciate what you are saying but i can assure you this was nothing like your situation you are describing.
I sold a horse to this person just under a year ago, she went off in super condition, a lovely mare. Was returned to me by the same owner a couple of weeks ago to sell on for them as she no longer wanted her. When she got to me i had a huge shock when i saw the condition of her. It was heartbreaking. This isnt about rumours or small talk or anything petty like that. Its about concern for horse welfare and also im hugely worried that this person is now looking to buy another arabian. Hence the fact i want to warn sellers. If you were me im sure you would do the same.
Alethea
Aristotle Arabians
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alison
Platinum Member
Wales
1810 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 1:58:32 PM
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I fully support Alethea here and she is taking the correct course of action.
Ali |
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Bex
Gold Member
Wales
559 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 2:57:14 PM
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Hi Alethea
So sorry to hear about your mare you must have been so upset when you saw her
I hope you can sort her out and get her back to how she should be.
Good on you for bringing this out in to the open and lets hope it stops it happening again to someone else.
Love Becci. xxx |
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Rui
AL Admin
6761 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 5:40:09 PM
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Hi all,
We understand the motivation behind the suggestions about a role AL could play on situations like the one that originated this post, namely maintaining a list of people known to have failed to provide proper care to horses.
However, as good as it sounds on paper, it takes a lot more effort to implement than it seems. Some of you have have already pointed out some risks in it. The compilation of such a list would need a thorough checking process, and a " Basic Standard of Proper Care" drafted, as the standard of care varies noticeably among different people.
We have no way to do such a thing. Even animal welfare organizations like the RSPCA or World Horse Welfare (formerly ILPH) have trouble doing this, and they have far greater resourses to do so. We may however in certain circumstances provide an avenue for a froum member, with a personal experience that can be of value to others, without naming and shaming publicly, to alert all other forum members to potential risks, using whatever private means of communication the member chooses to use: email, forum PMs, telephone, whatever. That will ensure that the message gets through, and it will involve the member him/herself in alerting the wider community about potential issues, with the credibility the community will be willing to grant to that member.
I understand it may not be the best way, but it's really the only available way to make sure that issues of such seriouness are dealt seriously too. Matters such as these have always the potential for underlying legal consequences and must be dealt carefully.
In any such circumstances, I ask all of you to please contact Paula and myself before posting. AL will not become involved in any dispute between parties, but we will always listen to members concerns regards a situation, to make sure everyone involved is treated fairly and that all legal implications, both for the member and AL, are considered.
Thank you
Rui
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 6:07:28 PM
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Very wise, Rui, it is a legal minefield and there are a lot of spiteful pople out there who will badmouth people becuse they have an axe to grind. I think what Alethea is doing is the best way to deal with things like this. I assume she has proof of what she alleges and hopefully it will stop this person from buying a horse from those of us on ALines who care where our horses go.
I recently sold a stallion by word of mouth, the first entire I have ever sold, and he has gone to a fabulous home where he is loved to bits. He was shut in for months with no turnout at all for months before I bought him when he was rising two and I have had him for 5 years. He can get stressy if he is upset so he needed a special home, exactly like the one he has got. The thought of his going to a bad home when he is now such a happy boy would be terrible.
I will pm you, Alethea, as I too would like to know who this person is.
Barbara |
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marionpack
Gold Member
England
1073 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 6:59:47 PM
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Alethea, I apologise if you misunderstood me, I do totally agree with you and personally I don't understand how this person has the gaul to even enquire about buying another horse knowing what she has done to your mare or even how she had the nerve to bring her back to you in poor condition (luckily she did so that she can be decently cared for), and yes, I would be absolutely furious if I was in your shoes and do everything in my power to stop her buying again, the point I was trying to make (not very well) is that sellers (only the desperate ones and the ones that don't care about their horses) can and do lie about prospective purchasers if the sale doesn't go through
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Berkshire
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linda
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1772 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 7:31:02 PM
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Well done Alethea,
I am 100% behind you!! I don't know who this person is, but if they can do this to one horse they do not deserve another chance!
Lx
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