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PHILIP
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
54 Posts |
 Posted - 17 May 2009 : 7:24:30 PM
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Yesterday I had the good fortune to be asked to do the announcing at the Wales and West Group Show at Chepstow. I thought that the show was a very happy one - despite the odd rain shower there was a pleasant atmosphere and indeed 2 people (Margaret Evans and Maggie Court )were recognised with the inaugural award by the Welsh group for past services to the arabian horse.
HOWEVER !!
Where were the anglo arab and part bred entries? There has been considerable comment on this forum from the AA/PB lobby of recent but I have to remark that I was disappointed with the numbers that turned up yesterday. All show organisers have to try and stay in the black when running a show - it costs the same to bring a judge in whether you have none,1 or ten in a class. I do not have a hidden agenda in my comments and although I commented on the numbers to the organisers these are my thoughts only. It seems to me that if you do not support the classes you will loose the opportunity as it makes funancial sense not to put on classes that attract none or few entries. Also it cannot be much fun for a sole entry as the fun in competing is not there and it takes just the same time to get ready for the show.
What do you think?
Philip
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Mrs Vlacq
Platinum Member
Wales
3776 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2009 : 8:49:02 PM
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It's a troubling trend - there were less than a dozen forward in this section at the N Wales Spring show. Not taking anything away from the winners - all super quality but we all like to see a full lineup of horses in every class, and a good few to mull over in the championship
It seems the AA and PBAs are more likely to go to a show where they can contest different classes, under different judges at one show (and 1 expense on diesel etc). So when a Group Show clashes with something like NCPA, the ponies especially will go the latter. Same with the Hacks and Riding Horses, many of whom hardly ever enter an AHS class |
    
- V Khazad - V Calacirya & V Sulime - Quarida(L) - V Boogie Knights - V Hamra Tofiq |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2009 : 07:37:25 AM
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Can confirm that fact....Anglo and Part Bred Arabs are out there in large numbers......but exhibiting at open shows which have several classes to compete in ie: Hack, Riding Horse, Intermediate Show Riding type, each under different Judges.....(1-diesel cost)
Unfortunately, these same folk, rarely show at the AHS Branch Shows  and over the years, in ever diminishing numbers, at our National Show So..repeating again...A/Liners... GET OUT TO YOUR BRANCH AND NATIONAL AHS SHOWS....SUPPORT SUPORT SUPPORT!!!!! otherwise, fear the Anglo/Part Bred Arab classes will be lost forever and Arab Shows will become Pure Arabs Shows ONLY!!!
Dont let this happen 
It really is such a shame....what is the answer????
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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Edited by - BabsR on 18 May 2009 07:39:56 AM |
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Scarlet Arabian
Silver Member
England
339 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2009 : 07:58:20 AM
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just a thought.....
perhaps by going to an arab breed type show, that the people who have partbreds feel that only the arab part is being judged??
(i know this is not true)
plus may be they feel that there is more prestige in classing their horses as hacks and riding horses than PBAs!!!!!
Abby
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stacatto wind...... kharibe........salana A/A........julien p/b........scarlet...
whitsbury/new forest
www.scarletarabianbridles.co.uk |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2009 : 08:16:51 AM
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Agree.....in part with that thought. It does seem that the Branch shows do tend to call upon Judges who are Purebred Breeders.....Maybe that does not help 
In open classes......too much Arab look is not favoured by Judges. Perhaps chosen Judges should be drawn from other indipendant Judges Panels, or from AHS Panel Judges who are known Anglo/Part Bred Arab Breeders/Owners (as opposed to Pure Arab only) Judges...ie Hack, Riding Horse, Sports Horse etc
Again, just a thought..... Certainly do think also offering Ridden Hack, Riding Horse, ISRT etc., should be added to the schedules at Arab Branch Shows.....and may encourage more Anglo/PBA exhibitors.....may take several years for these classes to establish, but worth a try. "speculate to accumulate" springs to mind 
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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Scarlet Arabian
Silver Member
England
339 Posts |
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Avonbrook
Silver Member
287 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2009 : 09:44:38 AM
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Just thought I would contribute to this one as a breeder of part-bred as well as pure bred arabs. Those who know me know that showing is not something that I particularly enjoy (prefering the performance side) but I am making the effort to support some classes this year. The spring shows are out of the question as my horses are turned out as soon as there is any grass and are consequently just shifting the last of their winter coats now. Also I am occupied with foaling and the stallion's stud duties in addition to my main business as a chiropractor and bringing up two children. I have just completed the entry forms for the shows that I am aiming for. Midland in hand and the AHS Midland show are the same weekend. I am taking the yearling to the former. He is entered in 2 classes and I have joined as a member. The total cost is £26. I am taking the stallion and a 3 year old to the latter (the stallion to make the trip worthwhile as there is only one class for the 3yo). The cost is £42. I am supporting the part-bred classes at the Nationals and the cost is £109 (no stabling needed otherwise I wouldn't be doing it). We are hoping to be able to spend all day playing at the Sport Arabian Trakhener show doing all sorts with the stallion. The cost is £48. I can take him to a jumping show for £6 per class, dressage for £8 per class, pleasure riding for £10...
Rowena |
  
www.avonbrookstud.co.uk |
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PHILIP
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
54 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2009 : 09:50:22 AM
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If the AA/PB section did disappear from regional or the National show I think the arabian horse scene would be worse off. Whilst the pure bred scene is important it is the diversity that the AA/PB gives to the breed society that helps to make the Society an important player in the horse world.
I would agree with BabsR that those engaged in AA/PBs must wake up to the fact that unless they support at least the regional shows and most definitely the National Show they will loose showing opportunities. We shall soon see whether the National Show, which has listened to your comments, has done enough to garner your support!!
Maybe through this forum the AA/PB breeders and owners can come up with more ideas as to what will persuade them to exhibit at regional shows and hopefully show organisers will take on board any sensible comments - one thing is certain if nothing is done the slippery path is already being walked on.
On a positive note I know my wife Joanne has had a very nice Part Bred filly this year and is already looking forward to HAVING FUN showing her next year. Lets hope there will be some shows for her to attend.
Philip |
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weirton
Gold Member
873 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2009 : 09:58:44 AM
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Well, I've dragged these old bones out on several occasions already this season, when I would much rather have stayed at home, just to help our cause, but when I got home on Saturday and read the latest info on the Malvern classes I nearly threw the towel in completely.
"We have listened to you" no sorry, you have altered the classes but not in a way that will help your entries. Maybe you should have listened harder."Please support these classes or WE MAY HAVE TO RECONSIDER IN THE FUTURE" Please do, but confer with the people to whom this applies. I found the tone of the letter threatening and patronising. I'm sick of being bullied by people who don't know, understand or respect the requirements of this section of the AHS and to threaten us again after the abuse and lies we've been subjected to over the last fifteen years was almost the last straw. This I'm afraid is one of the reasons I actually don't like 'C' shows. The AA/PBs are generally treated as the poor relations and a nuisance by the Arab exhibitors, when we CHOOSE not to have Arabs (been there, done that and no thank you, never again).
I actually prefer Arab judges to pony, hack or any other judge (provided they know good conformation when they see it, and that is not always the case) but then I do like my horses to show their GOOD arab characteristics (not too much) That is of course a matter of choice and it wouldn't do for us all to like the same type, would it?
Also the purely Arab shows are much more expensive than most other shows and usually need stabling to add to the problem. I was told the classes at Malvern would be in the afternoon (wonderful) but now see they are in the morning so don't know if I can get cover at home,as my usual help was told she wasn't needed and now has other plans.
I don't know if it's worth the bother to keep taking the flack from the purists who seem to think they are so much better than us ( ask the wider horse world), perhaps I'll join those who go elsewhere, where it's possible to get a level playing field, or maybe I won't give up that easily, I really don't know.
Such a shame the AHS has lowered it's standards to where it is today and so many committee members forget they are servants of the society (members) and get carried away with their own importance. This may be seen to be a bit off topic but it is all very relevant to the general attitude to AA/PB situation, and you did ask, didn't you?
Jean |
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pintoarabian
Gold Member
Scotland
1242 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2009 : 10:09:57 AM
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| Absolutely agree Rowena. You get far better value for money entering a performance class and there are plenty of them to choose from within easy travelling from home. Many have become disillusioned by the showing scene. There are no subjective judgements in showjumping, it is you against the course, then the clock. I have yet to encounter the bitchines that seems to go hand in glove with showing. Some of the bigger shows are pricing people out with huge entry fees. For what? Just to walk and trot round a ring for a few minutes. You can usually only enter one class and if the judge doesn't like your horse, that's it, time and money down the drain. The current climate is making people look for best value for their money. Travelling hundreds of miles with high fuel costs, often with overnight stabling too, to compete in one class is not best value. Who can blame people for not buying into that? A radical rethink is required or these classes will disappear. People vote with their cheque books and the performance disciplines will continue to go from strength to strength while the showing scene declines unless new ideas can be developed. |
http://www.performancearabians.com
http://performancearabians.blogspot.com/
https://www.facebook.com/PerformanceArabians
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2009 : 11:53:19 AM
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Agree to a point...and performance classes are gaining in momentum.....but, without the Breeders....where do the ridden performance horses of the future come from??
Youngstock Breed classes need to be staged as the shop window for the young horses who will be competing at a later date. The Major Shows Calendar Breed Class entry Fees are way too high, as are stabling fees etc., but most do offer prize money (unlike the AHS National, whos entry fees are in the top bracket, for in-hand Showing)
Agree that the credit crunch has helped worsen the current situation and folk are letting their cheque books do the talking....sadly more so now, than ever.
With regard to the encouragement of Arabian Sporthorses, are entries for the Arabian-Trakehner Event, showing a much increased exhibitor interest?? Perhaps this show will be the leader and AHS Shows will stage these performance classes in the future......if that proves the way to go!!!
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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Edited by - BabsR on 18 May 2009 12:01:56 PM |
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Scarlet Arabian
Silver Member
England
339 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2009 : 11:59:29 AM
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why no prize money?????
i can go to county for less on entry fees and get prize money??????
Abby
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stacatto wind...... kharibe........salana A/A........julien p/b........scarlet...
whitsbury/new forest
www.scarletarabianbridles.co.uk |
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weirton
Gold Member
873 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2009 : 12:05:00 PM
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Would like to point out that there was one pure-bred class that only had one entry and only three mares and foals entered, two turning up. So maybe the problem is spreading to the Pure-bred classes also.
Jean |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2009 : 12:13:55 PM
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Upon posing exactly that question to a committee member some years ago, when the AHS ceased giving prize money at the National Show...the reply...
" Arab Exhibitors are not bothered about having prize money.....they exhibit for the prestige of their successful results"
Is that not an elitist comment???...the AHS Nationals is for those who CAN afford and no consideration given to the small breeders or one horse owner, struggling to pay the extremely high cost for the privilege of walking the hallowed AHS National Show turf!!!
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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SueN
Bronze Member
England
169 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2009 : 12:30:00 PM
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On a highly emotive note, years ago I was showing my Pure bred stallion at Royal Windsor, bravely holding up the back line! A steward approached me and started chatting. Surprisingly, the first thing he did was to compliment my turnout. I was dressed in my usual showing outfit which comprised of a hacking jacket, riding trousers, boots and a scarf. He was absolutely furious at the turnout of most of the other handlers within the Arab classes, in white trousers and see through tops. He felt it was incredibly disrespectful especially as this was a Royal Show. I believe that a few years later these classes were dropped.
The point of the statement above is to throw into the scenario that the way that Pure bred showing has gone over the years, maybe has made quite a few Anglo and Part bred people disassociate themselves from the razzamatazz. I am fully aware that this is a contentious thing to say, but if I were showing now, I might be a little reticent showing a 2yr old colt next door to the noise of the Pure bred ring.
I also took exception to the last sentence from the Society regarding the Anglo and part breds. It could have sounded like a veiled threat. That is not going to help anyone.
Phillip, please don't assume that we would loose the classes at the National show, if entries are not up. It would have been so much more sensible to amalgamate all the Anglo and Part bred classes, have them all on one day, with their own Championships. Cut out all the other classes, and get the show back to Championship status.
The slippery path started some years ago, and was never addressed.
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Scarlet Arabian
Silver Member
England
339 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2009 : 12:35:22 PM
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"Is that not an elitist comment???..."
yep i agree,
if you don,t get the general people involved the show becomes a close shop!
and after all the minatory can not support money wise like the majority
elitist shows may be all glory but not good business.
Abby
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stacatto wind...... kharibe........salana A/A........julien p/b........scarlet...
whitsbury/new forest
www.scarletarabianbridles.co.uk |
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weirton
Gold Member
873 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2009 : 12:54:25 PM
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Absolutely agree SueN with your point regarding combining the Anglo and Part-bred classes and taking the highest placed of each to their respective championship. We compete that way all season so why not at the 'Championship Show'. It would cut the ring time and also the cost of rosettes. If entries picked up it is easily reversed.
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Kris
New Member
United Kingdom
5 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2009 : 1:02:27 PM
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I think the reason why you dont have many PBA entries at theses shows is because most people have a part bred to do a specific classes for example hack, riding horse, showponies and the pba class is a second class to them and also most of these shows that hold these classes also have a RIHS or cherif qualifier there aswell. With the way the current climate is most people are cutting down and will only travel to shows when they can can do a couple of classes.
There are so many pbas doing these RIHS qualfiers and they will travel to them so why dont you put these qualfiers on at the arab shows you will certainly get the pba entries then? |
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weirton
Gold Member
873 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2009 : 1:15:00 PM
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Kris, would this only apply to the adult classes though? |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2009 : 1:16:07 PM
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Have to disagree there SueN...methinks that had the AHS amalgamated all the Anglo and Part Bred Youngstock classes as was originally scheduled.........then think these classes would have been boycotted all together!!!
Feel sure splitting by age and sex, may well encourage exhibitors to be more supportive.....as at least that someway makes a more level playing field, somewhere towards par with the classes scheduled for Pure Arab Members
I for one, would no way make an entry with a yearling in a 1/2/3 year old class. As it is, have now supported the yearling Anglo, and probably whilst possibly wasting an entry fee, also supported the Light Horse 1/2/3/ yr old class with the same yearling, in the hope that if sufficient entries......this class too, may be split by age, or at least into two classes...yearling and two/three year old.
If other Anglo and Part Bred Exhibitors are like minded, then hopefully we may well see increased support and bigger classes
brought about by the expansion of the classes 
The change to early AM scheduling...makes for re-organising our work somewhat as have twenty horses to see to before we set off
but hey ho......have to work through the night. Going to be very difficult for those many hours from the showground though such as Jean and Bob but hope you are able to make it on the day
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk
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Edited by - BabsR on 18 May 2009 1:18:57 PM |
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SueN
Bronze Member
England
169 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2009 : 1:27:52 PM
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Babs,
What I omitted to say was in my suggestion to amalgamate the Anglo and parts, was to of course have the ages split. I would never be in agreement with having yearlings competing against older youngsters. That would be ridiculous. Just as ridiculous as having one or two in a class. What is the point of having three separate class for 2 and 3yr old Anglos. The entries do not warrant these splits yet!
By all means return to the original format when entries warrant. |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2009 : 1:39:42 PM
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Jean.........agree that at all/most other Shows, Anglo and Part Bred Arabs compete together. However, As Members of the AHS who hold three Stud Books and Registers....feel each Member should be catered for and have separate classes with their own individual Championship in each of the sections....Pure Arab, Anglo Arab and Part Bred Arab.
Also feel that expanding the classes in the Anglo section, will result in more entries, not less!! It may well take a decade, maybe less but think the schedule now available, will, eventually bring back a much improved support. Time will tell...but the AHS MUST give it time and remember that Anglo Members have been very alienated and disillusioned by the many lies and threats they have been subjected to during many years past......trust and confidence, take a long time to restore!!
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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Edited by - BabsR on 18 May 2009 1:40:54 PM |
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nn
Gold Member
England
659 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2009 : 3:59:36 PM
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I would just like to say that as the proud owner of both AA and PBA horses, i now find the change to the AHS show a pain!
Why not have the AA and PBA classes on the same day?
Easier to organise time off etc.
I know you cant please everyone!!!!! But it does for me mean that i might not be able to fetch my AA filly which is a shame! Over £400 in entry and stables is no joke.
I attended the Eastern group show and was surprised at how few there were entered.But very good quality.
The poor Fenland group had to cancel due to lack of any entries (inc purebred)
We do go out and compete, in fact i am out every week mid week and weekends, but doing other things!!!Dressage etc
The AA/PBA horses are out there doing there thing but just not at the regional group shows anymore.
Nicky
www.romarnicstud.co.uk |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2009 : 4:41:44 PM
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Agree Sue...who wants 2-entries in a class?? BUT by AHS `offering`
a wider choice of classes, divided by age/sex, it may well encourage additional entries, sufficient to make worthwhile classes
THEN,if entries are not forthcoming as might be hoped for, amalgamate
2/3 year old classes, AFTER closing date!!!
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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BabsR
Platinum Member
England
2790 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2009 : 5:14:04 PM
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Do agree Nicky, Anglo and Part Bred Arab sections should be run on the same day. This would save considerable expense to owners wanting to exhibit in both sections, in-hand and under saddle
Can the Show Committee advise WHY these sections are not run on the same day ?? as surely, exhibitors/spectators have a like interest in both....and would benefit from the savings in stabling and transport costs. I would think, the greater majority of Anglo/Part Bred Owner/Breeder do not own a business and many are one horse exhibitors
Babs
www.SunrayAngloArabianStud.co.uk |
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Scarlet Arabian
Silver Member
England
339 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2009 : 5:17:16 PM
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"THEN,if entries are not forthcoming as might be hoped for, amalgamate
2/3 year old classes, AFTER closing date!!!"
great idea simple enough surly but keep the 1 yearolds classes as not fair to have to compete with 2/3 yearolds.
Abby
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stacatto wind...... kharibe........salana A/A........julien p/b........scarlet...
whitsbury/new forest
www.scarletarabianbridles.co.uk |
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