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lyanabint
New Member
 England
18 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Feb 2009 : 7:55:56 PM
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Our lovely mare has just been diagnosed with laminitis/founder and all this has happened in the space of roughly 6 weeks. We are devastated. I cannot believe this has happened especially at this time of year. We have had all the tests to try and find out the cause but everything has come back negative. The future looks very bleak as it is progressing so rapidly.
Would love to hear from anyone that has been in the same situation, good or bad.
Our mare is just 15 years old and is the last foal of Radfan. She is a wonderful mare and the thought of life without is just unbelieveable. So if anyone out there in similar circumstances can share there experiences with us would love to hear from you
Jill
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mogwai
Platinum Member
England
2717 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2009 : 8:05:59 PM
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NatH on here had a wonderful stallion with laminitis. Sadly the ending was not happy, though she may have some thoughts for you. I'm sure there is a blog/diary for him on her Chapel Farm website.
Laminitis is a horrendous condition, I have filly (non arabian) with it.
I am always plugging it, but it'sd such a good site www.metabolichorse.com If you look on the "further study" page it will take you to a Yahoo site. It is wonderful, very very informative on all metabolic conditions.
Best of luck
Ros |
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Mrs Vlacq
Platinum Member
Wales
3776 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2009 : 8:42:26 PM
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Agree - Nat's diary is pretty comprehensive account of a complex case. Should come up if you google Chapel Lane, or look for her profile (not sure we're allowed to post links?)
Treatment has improved so much over the years. Is it a porky pony laminitis or realted to hormones? underlying condition? vaccinations? stress?
(I ask because my hunter came down with it 36 hrs after having his teeth done with the machine)
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- V Khazad - V Calacirya & V Sulime - Quarida(L) - V Boogie Knights - V Hamra Tofiq |
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SarahA
Silver Member
476 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2009 : 8:51:29 PM
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Hi, unfortunately i have had quite abit of experience with laminitis and founder, if you want to PM me and i will give you my phone number and we can have a chat, dont give up hope though there is lots you can do....
Sarah
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pintoarabian
Gold Member
Scotland
1242 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2009 : 9:10:30 PM
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| Firstly, you need to work with a vet who is extremely knowledgeable about aggressively treating laminitis in a case such as yours. This could include x-raying to see whether the pedal bone has rotated as it will be critical to have her feet shod with special shoes or trimmed to get the weight off her toes. We have had a dreadful experience that has gone on for the last five months with a filly that contracted it from toxins being released from a bacterial infection in her gut. Had we not switched vets from one of the leading animal hospitals in the country who were not taking it seriously, our filly would be dead by now. The prognosis when the new vet took over was 'grave' but after months of aggressive treatment talk is now of a full recovery. Early treatment included ice packs being attached to her pasterns every few hours (sausage shaped balloons partially filled with water and frozen to slow down cellular destruction and help reduce inflammation), her diet being stripped back to hay soaked for 12 hours to remove as much starch and sugar as possible, high fibre cubes and High Fibre Light (no other feed),15 aspirin every second day(to continue for months still), bute or Danilon, Navilam, thick polystyrene sheeting bed initially, followed by deep shavings bed, restricted movement, dressings attached to her hoofs after a slit had been cut in the soles to let the fluid drain and poulticing. These dressings had to be changed twice a day to start with. Special 'slippers' had to be made for her from quick hardening putty that had to be duck taped over the dressings which were held in place with babies' nappies. Because of her age, she was too young and small for shoes. Five months on, heart bar shoes have now been fitted and new hoof growth is healthy. We are not out of the woods yet but we have just started to walk her out again and she is going well (full of nonsense having been cooped up for so long). Things are now looking good but had we not found this vet she would simply not be here. Her care has been intensive but she never at any time gave up, even though she would have been in great pain initially. Her spirit kept us going and to see her feeling so frisky today as we walked her out makes it all worthwhile. Both the vet and the farrier who is a remedial specialist say they have never seen one so bad but both are now confident she will make a full recovery. My heart goes out to you because I know exactly how you are feeling. Hope your vet can get on top of it as it is a devastating and excruciatingly painful condition. |
http://www.performancearabians.com
http://performancearabians.blogspot.com/
https://www.facebook.com/PerformanceArabians
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CeliaS
Gold Member
Wales
646 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2009 : 07:34:22 AM
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My horse has fully recovered from lamimitis in all four feet diagnosed last August however I am now paranoid about what he eats. For him it is now down to management with diet and the Formula for Feet supplement.
I had my farrier and my vet with conflicting ideas over whether his shoes should be removed or not and eventually went with the farrier's advice to keep his shoes on. I should add here that he was already wearing heart bars due to a previous fracture of the pedal bone in his nearside fore.
Have a chat with Sarah A who had some good information and then go with what you feel best for your horse.
I can only give you info on how my own horse was treated so please feel free to pm me if you wish.
The laminitis trust has helpful advice. |
Celia
    
http://www.egbdecymru.co.uk
http://www.artantix.co.uk |
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LIV
Gold Member
England
705 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2009 : 09:11:03 AM
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I nearly lost my gelding due to this but I am delighted to say he is now back in work (since August) after a very long recovery. I was just happy to be able to save him, let alone be able to ride him again. I am lucky that I am very close to Newmarket and my boy was seen by Simon Curtis, who lectures all over the world on subjects such as laminitis. The following link is what Simon did to my boy.
http://www.uklandandfarms.co.uk/search/details.asp?Prop=593&Firm=989&Branch=1&Sys=A
It doesn't work for every horse, but I have been very lucky and can't thank them enough. I really hope there is something you can do for your mare. If you don't feel your vet has exhausted every option then do push yourself, as I did. I am sure Simon would look at your x-rays and see if this shoe would be appropriate but you'll need a referral from your vet. Here is Simon's website http://www.curtisfarrier.com/farriers/index.html You could always email him.
Liv |
     
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Info Sponge
Bronze Member
England
182 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2009 : 1:22:25 PM
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Sorry to hear your problems with laminitis.
You may find the Laminitis Clinic in Wiltshire's web site very informative if you Google it.
Best of luck,
Chris |
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garnet
Platinum Member
2382 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2009 : 2:43:40 PM
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Jim the Cob had laminitis in May 4 or 5 years ago. We were told to put him on Easibed as it packs into the feet and helps support the soles and pedal bones. He started off just lying on his side groaning and looking fit to die but with immediate treatment from a good vet he made a full recovery. He has the weigh tape on at least twice a week and eats Hi Fi Lite and Lo Cal. I am very careful with his intake of grass, using a tight paddock when necessary (he lives out due to breathing problems which set in around the same time and I have been told that the two often go together) and he is now a full-time driving horse, even trotting on the road. Our vet recommended salt and limestone as a daily supplement to prevent a recurrence but you would obviously need to discuss this with your vet.
Best of luck. |
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lyanabint
New Member
England
18 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2009 : 4:48:19 PM
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Thank you everyone for your helpful and caring replies so far.
To Mr Vlacq - No not porky laminitis, do not know underlying condition nor does her vet Im afraid
To pintoarabian - She has been x-rayed twice and yes pedal bone has rotated but still holding on at the moment. Had 2 blood tests - 1 for metabolic syndrome and 1 for cushings. Both negative. She is now in glue on shoes as not able to put nails in hooves, but has not made much improvement.
Physically she looks a perfect bundle of health, alert, shiny coat, bright eyes, standing in her stable resting her back leg, until she trys to walk and then it all becomes apparent the pain she is in.
Have just left her and really cant get my head around it. How such a healthy looking horse can have such a desperate problem that may result in her demise. |
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lyanabint
New Member
England
18 Posts |
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chez
New Member
England
15 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2009 : 6:32:49 PM
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| My horse has suffered from laminitis in the past, had it in all four feet with pedal bone rotation in both front feet. He'd was lame with another injury and I was told it was the pain from this injury that caused his laminitis. He was put on complete rest and had half moon sections of hoof wall removed from both front feet. It took a while but he completely recovered. We were laminitis free until this Christmas when he hurt his stifle, within a few days of this injury he couldn't walk. I knew straight away it was his feet, the vet was called immediately and he was put on a high dose of pain killers (the thinking being if we removed the pain it would help his feet). He was back to normal in two weeks and is back in work now. His pedal bones haven't rotated this time. I now live in fear of any injury as it could bring on another bout. |
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Mrs Vlacq
Platinum Member
Wales
3776 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2009 : 7:13:34 PM
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Sounds like it could be a stress bout then - the oddest things can cause it. Seperation anxiety, travelling, clipping, fireworks....
Stick with it - so hard to see them in pain but keep going! |
- V Khazad - V Calacirya & V Sulime - Quarida(L) - V Boogie Knights - V Hamra Tofiq |
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Pauline
Platinum Member
England
3185 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2009 : 7:22:51 PM
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lyanabint
Talk to a chap called Roger Hatch from "Trinity Consultants" His number is 01243551766
Roger is a wizared when it comes to making up something is a for everything.
Roger is a wealth of knowledge.
Pauline |
Pauline Higgs
Equine & Human Holistic Therapist
www.thegentlestouch.co.cc
www.endurancegbmidsouth.co.uk
Berkshire / Hampshire Border |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2009 : 7:49:13 PM
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At her age and at this time of year I would strongly suspect Cushings as being the cause of the laminitis. Pintoarabian is right---you really need a good vet who will take it seriously and leave no stone unturned to find the cause, x-ray and treat it. Just as importantly you need a really good remedial farrier---for some causes of laminitis I would say the farrier is even more importnat than the vet, but if it is caused by Cushings you need her on Pergolide asap, so the vet needs to know his stuff as well. You will get a lot of really good advice from the Laminitis Trust/Clinic. If you do test for Cushings only use the test they recommend---other tests involve injecting steroid into the horse which is far too dangerous.
ETA--sorry---just realised you say she has had a blood test for Cushings. Blood tests vary in their reliability so I would recommend the Laminitis Trust approved one. Also the sooner she can get heart bar shoes on the better since she has rotation . |
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Edited by - Zan on 14 Feb 2009 8:10:57 PM |
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Karon
Gold Member
England
1411 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2009 : 12:43:30 PM
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What test did she have for IR and Cushings? Some tests are better than others and at 15, and with laminitis this time of year, I'd suspect Cushings first (but then I've said before I'm paranoid about Cushings!). You do need a vet who has experience with Cushings/IR - one vet told me that my mare wasn't insulin resistant when her insulin was 190 (should be 35 I think).  And I had to tell my vet what the results of her ACTH test meant!
Can't add much more to what everyone else has said except to suggest you contact Jackie JA Taylor - www.metabolichorse.co.uk I think as she's a mine of useful information and supplements. |
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Kazzy
Platinum Member
England
3335 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2009 : 1:08:42 PM
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Has she been going out on this frosty hard ground?
My mare couldnt cope with it with her laminitis and also when it is frosty the fructose in the grass multiplies thus bringing on Laminitis.
My mare never ever was fat!!!!
Janet |
     
Sunny Cheshire |
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lyanabint
New Member
England
18 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2009 : 8:13:26 PM
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| She was first tested for Insulin resistance as the vet thought she had metabolic syndrome & the results came back very slightly elevated but nothing to indicate any cause for concern at all according to the vet. In answer to Karon when tested for cushings 2 weeks ago the vet carried out the dexamethasone suppression test (DST) which came back completely normal. She has not been out of the stable apart from foot x-rays since 16th December. She had imprint shoes fitted 3 weeks ago with the vet present at the time and we were told that these should make a significant difference to her level of comfort. Unfortunately there has been no change for the better, although since fitted also no change for the worse. Her coronary band is depressed all the way round apart from about 2cm each side right by her heels, yet she rarely lays down, and still dozes resting a hind foot. She is not fat and is currently on weighed hay only, advised by the vet plus Danillon and ACP. The horse in front of us and the clinical signs do not quite match up. Her farrier used to treat the rescue cases at Redwings Horse Sanctuary so is quite experienced in laminitus. Its just so frustrating as my hands seem to be tied as to how to help her, although I am constantly researching in the hope that I will find something else that may help. Thank you all so much for all your replies so far. You are all very kind. Lyana belongs to both my mum Jill (who has posted so far), and I Clare. When it has gone this far is there still chance of recovery? just enough to live a relatively normal life and be able to be turned out again. |
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lyanabint
New Member
England
18 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2009 : 8:24:32 PM
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| Hi Liv, thanks for the link to details on what Simon did to help your boy but when I click on it it takes me through to a property for sale. Is this correct? I have contacted Simon and he has replied so wanted to read about your experience with him. Clare |
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pintoarabian
Gold Member
Scotland
1242 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2009 : 9:17:04 PM
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| There is still hope. Our filly had 13 degree rotation of the pedal bone, separation round the coronary band and there was a danger that her pedal bones would come through her soles or that the wall would separate completely. This was pretty much as bad as it could get yet the vet and the farrier are still talking of a complete recovery. Her new hoof growth is healthy and the angle of growth is also very good. New soles have also formed and we could see pink, healthy regeneration inside when we were having to change the dressings. It will still take many months until the dead parts of the hoof grow out but we are delighted that she has made so much progress. For the first few weeks, she lay down for most of the time but now she is up as much as all the others and having little bucks and dances when we walk her out each day. Her spirit is quite remarkable and has been throughout. Don't give up hope. |
http://www.performancearabians.com
http://performancearabians.blogspot.com/
https://www.facebook.com/PerformanceArabians
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Theo
Silver Member
England
368 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2009 : 10:25:36 PM
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Hi,
I would second Pauline's suggestion, please give Roger a call on Monday and discuss the situation with him.
I have a living testament with me, that should have been a PTS case (according to the vets anyway...) last August!
I swear by his L94 liquid that detox and cleanses the system, and he'd probably recommend giving a Magnesium based supplement to stabilize the metabolism. (Dont tell him that's what you're expecting!) And see what he suggests! £80's worth of gubbins and worth every penny of it!
The sooner you start tx, the better!
Good luck!
T x |
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Claire
Silver Member
England
422 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2009 : 10:31:01 PM
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Hi, My pony has had several bouts of very acute laminitus and has now been diagnosed with cushings. Luckily he now seems to be doing fine. My friends pony however went slightly lame last may and didn't present as your typical laminitic, and was not severely lame to begin with. He is only now coming into work and for a long time both the vet and farrier were mystified as the x-rays and blood tests didn't match up to what they were seeing- he just didn't make any progress. My friend was recommended to Roger Hatch by the farrier as he thought it was due to toxin build up (in the liver) and the pony has been making progress albeit it slowly ever since. I think this is a tribute to the love and dedication of my friend to her pony- she is absolutely devoted to him and spends hours walking him out and has really had to fight hard to get help and answers.
Don't give up hope and I hope things start to improve |
      
Suffolk |
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Pasha
Platinum Member
England
3622 Posts |
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Karon
Gold Member
England
1411 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 09:28:18 AM
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Your vet did the dex suppression test on a horse with laminitis??? Noooooo! I refused to let a vet near my horse to do that when she had laminitis, and he knew then I knew what I was talking about. That test can cause or worsen laminitis, unfortunately some vets don't seem to appreciate that injecting a laminitic with steroids is a bad idea. I'm convinced a vet gave my first horse steroids when she had laminitis, I didn't know what he was giving her and at the time trusted vets. She was PTS several weeks after, having never got over the resulting worsening laminitis.
The ACTH test is probably a better one - my first horse had a "reliable" test for Cushings when she showed all the symptoms and it came back normal yet she definitely had Cushings. Also a "slightly elevated" metabolic syndrome test? That would also ring alarm bells for me as one vet told me an insulin of 190 (compared to normal of 35ish) was OK. Again, a case of me being given reason not to trust vets, although all the problems I've had with 2 horses with Cushings and dealing with insulin resistance too has really made me do my homework and challenge vets!
Have you got in touch with the Laminitis trust? Might be worth speaking to them and seeing what else you can try. I know how frustrating it is when things aren't getting better no matter what you try, and it's awful watching them in so mcuh pain  |
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nicolanapper
Platinum Member
England
4247 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 11:56:02 AM
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My mare got a very bad bout of laminitis, and pedal rotation when she had a steriod injection. It was a case of do or die, as she was literally dying. So I gave the go ahead for the injection, despite one previous attack of laminitis. (she had purpuria haemorraghica, a disease of the immune system, very distressing). I am now left with a mare who is chronically lame, aged 17, very stiff and at days cannot walk very far at all. I have spent a fortune on treatments, heart bar shoes, different kinds of pain killers, acp. She now regularly develops absesses (sp) and to be honest the vet says if she gets another attack it would be kindest to have her put to sleep. I hate that thought, as I have had her for 16 years, but I have to be sensible. When she is in a lot of pain, her mood changes just like humans really and she becomes quite irritable.
She has found it very difficult walking on the frosty ground we have had this winter.
Nicky |
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Karon
Gold Member
England
1411 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 6:18:08 PM
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| Sadly I do wonder if vets realise just what the consequences of a steroid injection can be. I've heard of several horses suffer bad laminitis after steroids, and when my oldest had to have steroids I was adamant that she had the lowest possible dose plus supportive treatment to reduce the risk of laminitis. Fortunately she was fine but after losing her mother to Cushings related laminitis, after what I am sure was steroids, you can understand why I have a thing about Cushings and laminitis! |
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