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templars
Platinum Member
England
1852 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Feb 2009 : 08:13:18 AM
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Maybe I've got confused.
I do support gradings and I think a Sport Horse grading for Arabian blood is a good idea. But I don't support a Sport Horse class just for the sake of having an extra class at a show.
When I originally contacted BEF about the futurity gradings, we swapped interesting e-mails about the pros and cons of me trying to take horses with a high percentage Arab blood to a grading and believe it or not, it was me that came up with most of the cons. BEF were very encouraging and made exactly the points that Lisa has made about Arabian bloodstock being the foundation of many of today's breeds.
But (and I say this very humbly), do we truly have the experience in the Arab world to judge such a grading? You only have to look at the performance points system run by the AHS to realise that there is a lack of knowledge of the performance disciplines. And this will really upset people, but if a Sport Horse GB or BEF judge commented on my horse as a performance animal, I would give their comments a lot more credence than someone from the rather insular UK Arab world.
What about "adopting" a grading like the BEF? What if breeders were encouraged to put their horses through the BEF process and genuinely take on board the comments made and learn. Then as experience grows, then gradually a separate Arab Performance Horse grading could be set up judged by people from within the Arab world who understand the process AND people from outside the Arab world.
Those breeders who believe their stallions are true performance horses, willingly put their stallions through the Premium process AND NASTA. It brings them very little in terms of recognition but I believe it does give them the comfort of knowing that their stallion has been judged against other breeds and not found wanting.
When we had to take Taragun to the Sports Horse GB grading, we were dreading it. We thought we would be laughed at. We thought she would be seen as being a "bit twee". But the panel of judges were open, objective and helpful. It was the best feeling in the world to know that Taz had been judged on exactly the same criteria as recognised Sport Horses and had scored highly. The only down comment was about her feet being small. That's where we need to blend in judges who understand Arabs - of course she has small feet, she's only 14.2 compared to the 16.3 horses they were used to judging.
My personal opinion is that if we introduce our own grading at Arab Shows, it won't take us much further in getting acceptance in the wider performance world.
We need to take the others on, on their own turf. We need to be present and vocal. Take the knocks, take the highs. Learn and adapt but keep promoting.
I was absolutely staggered when we got Heron and I was handed his passport and I realised he was Anglo Arabe. No-one had bothered to mention it because it was accepted as the norm and the Italian owner just couldn't understand why I was jumping up and down yelling how pleased I was about him being Arab. Arab blood in European Sports Horses is par for the course.
When we bought Nancy, we got her off another Pony Club family, and just like with Heron, I screamed when I saw her passport and pointed out to the previous owners that she was 40% Arab. Nancy is very well known in Pony Club and was highly sought after - we were the lucky ones to get her. The previous owner's reply to my statement was - "She can't be. I wouldn't be seen dead with an Arab." But the simple fact is, Nancy is part bred and we've not been quiet about it. And we know of at least 2 people who tried to buy her who have now looked specifically for a part bred Arab. As one mum told me, "we want a Nancy clone"
I don't know how the French got their horses accepted but I'd love to find out. Maybe if we can raise the profile of the Arab horse in the UK, then the international riders who are already riding an Anglo Arabe, like Georgie Spence (Fachoudette) and Yoshi (Kanga Black) will mention the breeding when they are interviewed. (Sorry for keep quoting eventers but I don't know any horses in the other disciplines although I'm convinced they are out there)
We all praise Tamarillo (and rightly too) but he's not the only one out there doing it. Our very own Heron was ranked higher than Tam in the world rankings in 2007. Fachoudette was (until she retired recently) higher than Tam as well being in the top 50.
I'm in the process of trawling through FEI records (and NED when it works properly) to check on the pedigrees of well known performance horses because I believe there are many, many top horses that deserve recognition (with that magical minimum 12.5% Arab blood). Those are the horses we need to be shouting about - we need to educate the general horse population that it's ok to be riding an Arab and collecting rosettes at the same time!!!
Once the general horse world realises that the Arab has been amongst them for some time, albeit "under cover", then there will be pride in the breed and the UK part bred and Anglo breeders will get the market and recognition for their beautiful, talented and intelligent horses.
It isn't a matter of introducing the Arab to the performance world (no need, they are already there) - it's a matter of taking off the dust sheet and letting the bloodlines shine through.
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trinity
Gold Member
Scotland
1126 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2009 : 08:51:39 AM
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Some really interesting points coming from all directions, but surely, at the end of the day, to change the stigma surrounding Arabs you have to get them out there competing and being seen by others, and as Templars has said several times already, shouting from the roof tops about their Arab breeding. If the AHS is not supportive enough just now of performance Arabians, surely it is up to us to get out there and give them something to take notice of.
More people than we realise are beginning to sit up and take notice of the versatility of the Arab horse. I don't think we specifically need Sports horse classes, as all this does is promote the potential of the horse. It doesn't really tell us anything of what the horse will go on to achieve.
Show horses can go on to excel in other disciplines if people are brave enough to step out in more than one direction. H Tobago has had a very successful show career and is now being prepared for a career in open comepetition.
Showing is an excellent way to introduce youngsters to a competition environment and get them used to being out and about, before moving them on to other disciplines.
At the end of the day, we should all concentrate on doing the discipline we enjoy and get out and promote the Arab breed.
Highland pony breeders owners are incredibly proud of what a Highland can do - they x country them, do dressage with them and show jump them. Many will tell you Highlands can't possibly do that, but they are and their breeders and owners are shouting from the roof tops about it. Now, they may well not end up in top competition but many are excelling at riding club events and for the majority of owners that is all they will ever want to do.
If we can change the attitudes of people at that level, then those higher up will sit up and take notice.
Centaurs - for now, does is matter where we get our Arabs graded. Surely getting them graded is the important thing. When enough of us are getting our horses graded then the AHS will have to take notice, but they probably need to see more than a handful of people shouting for it.
Take a look at this thread. The same names are contributing to it, so I suspect there is a lot of work to be done to truly get the message over about how versatile our wonderful horses are. |
Beck |
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lisa rachel
Gold Member
Wales
831 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2009 : 09:48:06 AM
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Slightly off the point but if you ever need cheering up about the acceptance of Arabs as riding horses, just go to a top level endurance event... there, absolutely nobody is arguing about who is the best horse for the job !!  |
lisa |
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trinity
Gold Member
Scotland
1126 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2009 : 11:03:59 AM
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Templars, I missed your last post whilst putting my own together.
I would love to see a Futurity style grading system. All our future youngsters are being bred with a view to being performance Arabians - pure's and pb's. They will all go through the Futurity process, alongside our 2 WB youngsters. I think we have to find the right niche for the horse and work it towards that discipline.
Due to injuries, we didn't get there last year but we went along to support the only scottish grading that they did. At this grading Ludcytoo put up her lovely 2 year old pure bred Arab gelding Dark Prince. He came away with a premium. There was such a buzz (cynical curiosity) in the stands and everyone came in to see the "Arab" go through his paces. Trust me, he wiped the smirks off all their faces and was an absolute joy to watch. The judges remarks were very favourable and couldn't understand why they hadn't seen more Arbas go through Futurity.
We have to promote British breeding and especially the Arab sector.
Sorry, maybe going off thread here a bit.
I think we also need to take the attitude that, whatever we show them in, it is more the viewpoint of those spectating that count. If you won't put your horses in front of certain judges etc, do other disciplines, how do people get to see what you have. |
Beck |
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Centaur
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
237 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2009 : 11:07:00 AM
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I agree totally Templars, we need to develop the expertise amoungst our judges to be able to recognise the attributes required to perform successfully. I'm afraid just asking a member of the AHS panel would be, in most cases, a waste of time (although I was heartened to be told by Michael Harris that my filly has an excellent walk - at least he knows what that looks like but then I would regard him as one of the "old school", with a broader outlook than just purebred in hand)
I also think that a vet or a good farrier should be part of the assessment panel as I am constantly amazed by the lack of basic form & function knowledge displayed by our in hand judges and breeders.
I have been lucky enough to own & compete three performance bred purebreds over the last 26yrs, a Sky (Marchioness Townsend),a Scindian and now a Biddesden stallion. They have given me enormous pleasure & considerable success as an amateur one horse owner & I just think that it is a tradegy to see the performance Arab tradition ebbing away year after year.
This has been a really thought provoking thread & I do hope that similar discussions go on at AHS council meetings. |
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Centaur
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
237 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2009 : 11:11:31 AM
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| Lisa, just seen your post from last night - I think you explain my thoughts & motivations better than I do!!! |
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Lucytoo
Bronze Member
Scotland
174 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2009 : 8:00:45 PM
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What an interesting thread, my interest lies in seeing the British bred, Pure bred Arab being promoted and taken seriously in all disciplines, for me especially dressage.
I do support Sports horse classes and will continue to.
I am happy to present my Arab to Judges outwith the Arab scene and these judges so far have been favourable.
The BEF evaluations are a fantastic concept, you're are in amongst other breeds,mostly Warm bloods, but i don't think that should put anyone off, as the evaluators are very positive and want to see a wide range of breeds and types ,the emphasis is on the potential to be a Dressage, showjumper or eventer.......They are looking for good conformation, athleticism, balance and presence etc.
I was so VERY proud to present my pure bred and he was unplaited, i got permission to present him this way as normally all would be plaited, but you present to type and i never want to hide the fact he is an Arab! They would like to see more Pure breds!
Dark Prince was the first Pure bred to be presented at the BEF and was awarded a first premium....
Surly getting our Arabs out to this kind of thing can only be good for the breed?
The Scottish Group are putting on in hand sports horse classes this year, jun and sen, i think its a great start to help promote our performance Arabs, parts and Anglos.
People who own Arabs know they are fantastic animals, its the rest of the horse world that needs convincing and i think sports horse classes and evaluations and gradings etc can help to do this.
Maybe introduce Sports classes at group shows and see how they are received?
L.x |
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