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emma
Gold Member
816 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Aug 2008 : 12:58:15 PM
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| Ah thanks for that Ella, i remember reading it in a paper and i seemed to remember it being a requirement but was not sure. It should be shouldnt it, that way over time those registered pedigree dogs would be bred only from those suitable! |
Emma
Fulmer House Arabians
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Dot
Gold Member
England
669 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2008 : 2:24:41 PM
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| I know from cat breeding that if you put a kitten on the inactive register then any of its offspring can not be registered here in the UK. No idea about abroad. |
Dot
www.threelowsfarm.com
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GHALEEM
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2028 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2008 : 2:29:47 PM
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Most humans are Nazis when it comes to animals, some species can live in our homes and be loved and adored, some species are eaten, some species are exterminated when their interests conflict with our own
Michelle
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Bexandspooky
Silver Member
England
332 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2008 : 7:19:25 PM
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I watched the program last night with great sadness. Everything that the kennel club should stand for has been pushed aside to keep the breeders happy, and the extremes of breeding should be actively discouraged to make way for the production of healthy happy dogs.
A pug with a squashed nose and bulging eyes is all very cute until its eyes are ulcerated and it cant breathe properly, and how can anyone believe that the mutant bulldogs that people create these days are 'beautiful' let alone athletic and powerful dogs capable of carrying out their true function (regardless of the fact that this doesn't happen any more).
I think it is very sad. |
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Debbie
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1138 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2008 : 7:37:46 PM
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I was appalled by the kennel clubs attitude to the points raised. I was horrified by the breeder of Ridgebacks that condoned the culling of puppies 'without the ridge'. I was equally horrified by the breeder of the cavalier diagnosed with the brain disorder who let him be used at stud a further 26 times "£££" signs come to mind. I couldn't believe the state of the GSD's with the very wonky loose hocks at crufts - all so sickening.
I bought a Chesapeake bay retriever bitch 3 years ago and she had a breeding endorsement on her due to the small genetic pool and I had to have her hip scored less than 14 overall (she was a total of 7) I have to her her eyes tested yearly due to progressive retinal atrophy - although she is PRA clear by breeding. I have recently had a litter from her and I carefully scanned my way through several pedigrees to find the most suitable one which wasn't closely related as I don't personally agree with father/daughter, mother/son, etc breeding, either in dogs or horses. They were quite right to ask the chairman of the kennel club if he would have a baby with his daughter. His reaction was one of disgust (quite rightly) so why do we do it with animals - ugh!
As for money! I had 6 dogs from the litter. The last one was born dead, 2 sold, one has sadly just been PTS at 9 weeks old due to congenital heart defect (not known in the chessies) and I have 2 left.I have so far received £1,300 for the puppies but I paid £650 stud fee, hips & eyes £200, Puppy injections ? Advertising so far £280 ..... so..... not a lot left in the kitty! |
Debbie
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nicolanapper
Platinum Member
England
4247 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2008 : 7:41:14 PM
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When I briefly caught up with this thread yesterday, I was saddened to see that some people felt the Kennel club was going to get a bashing, and that it would only be a matter of time before some of the breeding practises of the Arabian Horses were made public.
Having watched this programme last night I was utterly appaulled. I do not support the RSPCA, but on this occasion I am 100% percent behind them. These ghastly people who call themselves breeders quite frankly should be charged with cruelty and never be allowed to own or breed animals again. Once again it is all about the poor animal being in the ribbons. Those poor dogs, I think perhaps some of those ghastly show people are completely blind to animal welfare.
Glad to see this programme exposing disgusting practises.
Nicky |
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loosefur
Gold Member
584 Posts |
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Kirsty5278
Platinum Member
England
2682 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2008 : 8:32:57 PM
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I watched this....
what the human race will sacrfice all in the name of "perfection" and "beauty"......
It really hit home when pictures were shown of breeds in the 1800's, how WE have changed these beautiful dogs, and how WE have made them potentially sufffer.... |
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kimzi
Gold Member
865 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2008 : 10:40:25 PM
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Helloo again, the comment i made on litter mates being sold together same or opposite sex it is a bad idea, what starts as bouncy play with a little teeth often though not always becomes true competetive aggressiveness, rescue centres often have one of a pair of litter mates come into them because of this, often because the owner has intervened and been the one to get hurt and then realises next time it could be their child.
I have been honest about the true costs of our breeding, have a jolly sensible vet and actually think it would be nigh on impossible to lose money, after all if it were only to better the breed we would let the dogs get on with it naturally in their native habitats and let them develop as they did for hundreds of years before us humans got involved, no-one in their right mind would breed if it meant earning nothing,
I am also in no-way offended by the nazi comment despite coming directly from a polish jewish family who also saw and were subjected to terrible atrocities, after all if everyone is silent things are not remembered clearly. |
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lady tee
Gold Member
United Kingdom
785 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 12:24:08 AM
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I watched this program and was shocked to see whot goes on, poor dogs, whot these breeders are doing is whot Hitler praticed, eugenics.... Plus that dumbo woman saying her dog was free of disease when it wasn't and then breeding loads of litters from it. Whot happens when a poor child gets to have one of the pups and grows to love it ,then it gets ill and needs to be put to sleep ,whot do you tell the child to comfort it. Makes me sick ,these damm people do not give a dam about there dogs and whoom they sell them to as long as they are making money.  |
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Joto
Gold Member
855 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 12:52:32 PM
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| Its now a few days after the prog. I expect its already fading from the general publics minds. Thing is, what is going to be done for these unfortunate animals? Its all still in the hands of the breeders the "experts" , with members of the unsuspecting general public buying the puppies, who trust the experts to have produced a suitable and healthy animal.I think is time there was some verterinary input at the highest level, in this case the Kennel Club, , the vets having a say in what will and will not be alowed in the breeding practices. I also believe this should apply to all pedigree animal breeding including horses, with animals being checked for soundness and temperament as well as type, and only those who have passed a testing or grading being allowed to registered and bred from in the future, with restrictions on inbreeding. |
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Dot
Gold Member
England
669 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 1:06:46 PM
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Well put Joto.
Eugenics per say is not a bad thing it is how you apply it. Unfortunately due to the high level of bad publicity Hitler brought to this subject and the wrong application of eugenics and the use of the word are both considered 'dirty' and untouchable.
Eugenics can just as easily be
i)only using proven performance animals to breed from.
or
ii) how Hitler and the kennel club are applying it.
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Dot
www.threelowsfarm.com
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 1:22:03 PM
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I too think this will be 'smoothed' over. Where there is money involved you will always get problems. Politics play a huge part I'm sure.
Think of the revenue the Kennel Club would lose if they didn't register pedigree dogs. The programe highlighted that they originally started out as a sort of elite club wanting to breed the purest of breeds, hence the reference to Nazi's and culling etc.
Not a good use of the word is it. I think it is offensive to modern day Germans full stop. They hate it as much as us.
I have never bred dogs nor would I want to. I feel there are more than enough chucked in the rescue homes that need a loving home.
Some months ago I posted quite innocently about my mongrel dog on here and got slaughtered for buying a first cross dog. I was accused of pandering to fashion by some nutcase.
The way I see it is, if we all make sure we buy healthy dogs, pedigree ones from responsible breeders, or first cross ones/mongrels from whoever, this must be a step in the right direction.
Just check that the pedigree dog is in good health and has had all the checks etc needed for that particular breed.? Ask a vet.
With our Arabs, I stand firmly that we need our stallions to licensed before they are used and openly declaired if they are scid clear or not, or if they have any other carrier problem that could possibly effect a foal bred by that horse.
This should IMO be mandatory to start with.
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 1:25:00 PM
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I have got to say I am gobsmacked by some of the responses on this thread.
Everyone here has signed up for a forum dedicated to a PEDIGREE BREED of horse - not just any horse, but one with the longest history of selective breeding of any horse in the world. In what respect do you think that breeding pedigree horses is any different from breeding pedigree dogs???? If you want to use the terms 'nazis' and 'eugenics' in regard to breeders of pedigree dogs, then you must realise that you are inescapably applying the same description to ANYONE who made a considered choice when breeding their horse!
Breeding ANY animal WITHOUT regard for its genetic background and the potential for adverse conditions to arise is irresponsible in the extreme, to say the least. I can understand why Joe Public - who not the faintest idea about how all domesticated breeds of animals were developed - should have emotive and uneducated reactions to the subject of 'inbreeding', but I frankly find it worrying that people who are enthusiasts for and in many cases presumably also breeders of the world's oldest pedigree horse should react in the same way.
Breeding a pedigree Cavalier is in no respects different from breeding a purebred Arab. The breeders of both have the same information to hand regarding genetic strengths and weaknesses. The fact that we HAVE this information - the pedigree - is what allows us to make choices that will be for the BENEFIT of the dog/horse...unless we are irresponsible and decide only to select for cosmetic characteristics (big eyes in Cavs, dished faces in Arabs).
'Inbreeding' is an emotive term in present-day western culture, since people immediately think of it in terms of humans - where you can't forbid closely related people to produce offspring without infringeing their human rights, even if it means they are going to produce genetically impaired offspring. HOWEVER, this does not mean that inbreeding is "evil": it just reflects the fact that inbreeding concentrates whatever genes are present - GOOD qualities as well as bad ones. In humans, it is unacceptable to prevent individuals with bad genes from passing those genes on, which is why inbreeding in humans is best avoided.
OTOH, by acting as 'Nazis', people who make planned reproductive decisions for their animals have the opportunity to ONLY breed from those individuals who are 100% healthy, to ensure that these healthy genes are the ones that are passed on. By repeating crosses to an individual with exceptional qualities (eg Skowronek), a breeder can increase the odds that future generations will have the same positive features. This is EXACTLY how all modern breeds of dogs, cats, horse, cattle, poultry were developed - the Arab horse being no exception.
Inbreeding in the actual sense of the term is extremely common in the Arab, yet we have remarkably few problems as a result. Take the most 'inbred' group of Arabs in the world, Babson Egyptians: if inbreeding of itself was bad, then they all ought to be neurotic cripples. But the absolute reverse is true: Babsons are renowned for being tough, intelligent, human-oriented horses that excel in performance!
That said, WE do have problems, and that is why I started this thread to begin with. Where pedigree dog breeding has gone badly wrong is through breeding for cosmetic details unrelated to functionality, or through taking a feature that once contributed to function, but has been made an end in itself by breeders who do not understand functionality. Right now, the Arab horse is stnading on the edge of the same precipice, thanks to uneducated breeders (in the minority but unfortunately a very visible and influential minority) who breed only for pretty heads and dead-level toplines, without understanding how those affect the horse's ability to breath and move properly. Throw in a lack of knowledge of leg conformation and how it relates to soundness, mix with SCID, CA and Lavender Foal Syndrome, and in 20-30 years time it is entirely possible that the Arab horse could be where the Cavalier King Charles is today. It is already happening to the miniature 'horse': anyone who thinks it can't happen to the Arab is being naive.
I know this is not a popular thing to say, but ANYONE who breeds ANY animal - be it a Cavalier, Pug or Arab horse - just for a cosmetic feature is both irresponsible and immoral. However, those breeders who use pedigrees to produce sound, healthy, sane animals, deserve massive support and praise and should not be subjected to a witchhunt just because Joe Public is ignorant of what actually goes into responsible animal breeding.
Keren
(Incidentally, the term 'eugenics' simply means 'reproducing the best': therefore everyone who makes a planned breeding decision for their horse or dog is order to produce something that is better than the parents is "guilty" of practicing eugenics...) |
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LYNDILOU
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
13976 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 1:29:36 PM
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At the end of the day its ALL about money, the kennel club should not allow puppy farms to thrive  , but they do as it generates more cash for them ! that huge and expensive building and their lifestyles as paid for by registrations ! |
   
www.dreamfield-arabians.com |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 1:35:58 PM
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It is a fallacy to think that 'mongrels' are automatically healthier than pedigree dogs. Whereas with a pedigree, you can see the amount of inbreeding and also track any inherited defects, all that you get with a mongrel is a complete lack of information on its background. For all that you know, the dog could be the result of many generations of unregulated 'incest' breeding, with pups covering their mothers repeatedly!
Mongrels adopted from rescues such as the RSPCA give a false picture of the situation, since in many cases, any 'mongy' - no matter how nice a person in their own right - with a physical problem will be destroyed as unhomeable before anyone gets to see it, hence the RSPCA etc are themselves culling the population: THEY are the ones acting like Nazis!
At one point I had 6 cats: one pedigree and 5 'moggies'. Four of them had genetic problems - heart murmur, foreshortened face causing breathing difficult, UV sensitivity. Guess what? THEY WERE ALL 'moggies' - the pedigree was perfectly healthy and only died last year aged around 18 after suffering slug pellet poisoning.
Keren |
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MinHe
Platinum Member
England
2927 Posts |
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 1:44:49 PM
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I agree with what you say about the Babson horses to a point Keren. Sadly not being old enough to see all the ancestors I can only go by word of mouth and photo's.
I was lucky enough to be able to speak with a guy in the US who had a great influence on this breeding.
A particular line we had here was so inbred whoever we covered this mare with still threw a leg fault which caused me to give up completely with that line.
I was lucky enough to have three sisters all by the same stallion, although it was their dam causing the fault.
So yes, we got the good bits, ie the beauty and the tough little corkers that they were, smashing natures, we often got a leg fault.
So those wishing to go down the inbreeding route must really study the pedigrees and be most careful. In other words don't do it unless you know what you are doing! I think there are so many permatations to be taken in account, ie, which partner will give more dominance in the mating, temperament, who will provide what part you are looking for etc, what lines will nick with what, it is far easier for those breeding with Arabians to out cross completely. This is why so many do.
I have know quite few cases from a large stud that did son to mother matings, father to sister, brother to sister and got horses born with no eyes, deformed limbs, deaf and it went on.
Far too close breedings.
New thread Keren! |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 2:04:28 PM
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Minhe as far as I can see from reading these posts it is clear that everyone is appalled at what is going on in the breeding of pedigree dogs and what their ruling body allows. You say yourself that the Arab horse is teetering on the same precipice, and I think everyone who cares about Arab horses should take the dog world as a warning for the Arab horse world.
Two animals very close to my heart from childhood are the GSD ( then Alsatian) and the Arab horse. The Alsatian I had as a child was very "well bred" in the true sense of the word. There were a lot of champions in her pedigree and through generations these dogs had been bred with care. She was big, with a dead straight back, plenty of bone, extremely intelligent, calm, loyal and wise---everything the breed should be. For some reason the breed has been taken over by "breeders" who know nothing about conformation, and care nothing for working ability, temperament or anything else this wonderful breed should stand for and they are producing freaks who would not be physically fit for any work, and are highly strung and often brainless, as well as having numerous health problems of course.
The parallels with what goes on in in hand showing of Arab horses is frightening and should serve as a warning to everyone who cares about our horses---In GSDs it started with a stupid show stance ( sound familiar?), and somehow people started breeding for a dog who was the shape of this stance--with roach backs and legs left out behind them. Show GSDs are encouraged to run wildly on the end of their leads and show none of the control and intelligence in the ring this breed used to be famous for . Show owners refuse to teach their dogs to walk properly on the lead, in or out of the ring, because they fear it will spoil them in the ring These dogs exist only to be shown, and their wonderful working brains have been bred out of them. Double handling---traditionalists are appalled at the antics that go on at GSD shows by people outside the ring to gee the dogs up.
The Kennel Club should have never allowed any of this to happen. They should have made sure the judges judged to the breed standard and not allowed it to be eroded by fashion.
It takes longer to ruin a breed of horse than a breed of dog because of their lifespan, but if anyone sees frightening parallels with GSDs have a look at the poor souls from the showing world to see what awaits Arab horses.
As an aside--I currently have a GSD I rescued--- a street dog who was clearly bred from "scrap yard stock"--any bitch to any dog as long as it is a GSD. She is much closer to the dog of my childhood than anything with a string of modern day champions in its pedigree. What does that say about the kind of people who are breeding pedigree GSDs today?
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 2:32:47 PM
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Zan that is a most excellent comparison.
I understand where Keren is coming from. But I really feel our arab breeders are dwindling fast, me included.
I think it is no good to just preach, persuasion is IMO a way forwards.
Leading by example is also another way to teach.
Those who do breed beautiful, useful arabs must now show the way forwards.
I can list many studs who do do this today.
Beauty is an integeral part of the breed and always has been.
If you look on the AHS web site at the breed discription it is in black and white for all to see.
I beleive the only change made to it was to accept the high front leg movement, not sure if it's still included? I admit to not reading it fully through.
If some breeders wish to not include this breed standard in what they breed, then that is their choice.
It will all come back to what each individual likes or wants and in doing so will shape our breed for the worse or the better.
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Wyllow
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2885 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 4:26:54 PM
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When I went to buy an Arab, I wanted a riding horse ~ a working animal, strong, healthy and fit for the purpose....who just happened to have that real "people" thing that Arabs have and also a beautiful head,a proud carriage and that incomparable action....but still a WORKING horse....so I chose one who was bred from Crabbet lines with a history of being first rate riding horses....and that's what I got ~ a GORGEOUS looking, sane, sensible, strong working mare.
GOOD selective breeding made her what she is. More power to the Harwood stud and those who DO breed responsibly! There are MANY of you out there, thank goodness.
If people CHOOSE animals for the right reasons ~ health, strength, fitness for purpsoe etc , rather than for exaggerated "fashionable " traits, the bottom will drop out of the market for "designer" animals ~ both horses and dogs alike.
When I wanted a GSD, I didn't go for "show lines", I went for the flat backed WORKING dog, favoured by the Police and Army....nothing like the banana backed deformities with the wobbly back ends ~ YES, I AM having a pot at what I see are people RUINING the breed I have loved since childhood and with which I grew up. They were NOTHING like the nervy, fidgetty, tottering creatures that WIN in the ring.
Dear God, what happened to the breed standard requirement of fitness for purpose?
The GSD is a SHEPHERD dog....supposed to be fit for herding sheep for hours....and these pitiful animals can barely run around a ring without falling over their own back legs.
How can that acute angulation be beautiful?
It's ugly and hazardous to the animal's wellbeing.
"Serious" breeders will tell you that angulation FACILITATES a smooth running trot.
Oh give me a break!
GSDs are beginning to resemble Hyenas ~ all front and no back end.
Have you ever seen a HYENA move?
Smooth running gait?
You must be joking!
Joe Public is neither blind nor stupid.We can ALL see the dog moves far WORSE for this trait breeders have "encouraged".
It's like the Emporer's new clothes ~ only the brainwashed or those afraid to offend convention apparently think the "suit" is handsome !
Same with the banana backed dogs.
How can ANYONE convince themselves that this pressure on the lower spine and hip area ~ already a dodgy part of many GSDs is a GOOD thing?
I used to belong to a couple of GSD forums as I have a gorgeous long coated boy ~ Alf, who has ok hips but unfortunately, his pancreas is shot ( no way of seeing THAT in a sound looking pup! )~ Another genetic trait in the GSD. He cannot eat without enzymes added to his food.
Another result of careless breeding.
Back to the angulation issue ~ I think had certain members of forums I mentioned been on the same land mass as me, I'd be DEAD by now for asking WHY this stupid and cruel and downright UGLY angulation is encouraged when it clearly cripples dogs?
The abuse I ran into and accusations of ignorance is not repeatable here.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and there are none so blind as they who will not see the obvious.
Dogs are living breathing "people" too... who need to be the fittest they can be to enjoy life to the best of their ability ~ just like us!
The KC has an impossible task and it should also be up to INDIVIDUAL breeders to LOOK at what they are doing and behave with all the responsability required of ANY animal lover when they breed the next generation. They should ALL recall that the vast majority of pups will be PET quality ~ crikey, I HATE that term ~ like it lessens the ability of a dog to lead a life as loved and cherished as any champ?!
Dogs ought to be bred to be the HEALTHIEST and FITTEST they can be for their purpose( although they just deserve to be seen as souls who deserve to live a long and pain free life) ....and surely no good healthy specimen can be termed less than a "good" one?
That program opened a DEBATE which will run and run ~ I HOPE!
AT least it MAY make people THINK, talk and ACT to improve the lot of SOME Bulldogs, Pugs, Cavaliers etc and all those animals with genetic issues exaccerbated by the strange practices of some breeders.
No, not all pedigree dogs have problems, but we have to admit that too many DO have them and it is only the humans who CAUSED them to be more prevalent who MUST do something about it ~ NOW.
~Cate
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Cate Hamilton
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Lanabanana
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2691 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 5:39:51 PM
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Keren (MinHe), I wholeheartedly applaud your posts on this topic
You have eloquently pointed out EVERYTHING I wanted to say on the subject.
I have owned many pedigree (registered) dogs, and was actively involved in the dog show scene for many years. I've never bred a litter, never saw the need when there are so many excellent ones bred by other people, just the same way there are with Arab Horses
I can honestly say hand on heart that none of my pedigree dogs ever suffered or died from any inherited disease, not only luck, I did my research and bought from responsible breeders.
In general a lot of pups bred at puppy farms are not registered. The dams of these puppies are often above or below the age allowed by the Kennel Club for breeding females or they have had more litters than permitted by the KC. These pups are sold as pedigree, but not registered, therefore NOT generating any income for the KC.
Then there are the backyard breeders who breed a few litters with no thought to the health and welfare of their pups just how much money they can make. The pups may well be registered and the price tag will be similar to that of a quality pup, but the breeder has probably used their own dog or the nearest stud dog regardless of breeding or physical defects
I would suggest that the term 'inbreeding' was used in the programme to evoke exactly the response that Keren suggests. Line breeding to a common excellent example of the breed is used in dog breeding far more than inbreeding IMO.
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kimzi
Gold Member
865 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 7:03:25 PM
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On another note, relating to puppy farms. I am sure we have all met someone who has walked into a large pet supermarket and walked out with a KC reg pedigree puppy.
Who is supplying them? According to the kennel club it is against their rules, yet no-one is held up over it, the stores never run out of theses pups labs, retreivers, samoyeds, chihuahua's. They are supplied by 'respectable' breeders lol after all puppy farms dont register dogs do they??????????????????????????????
I can name 3 stores in a 3 mile radius of enfield that do this and there sre hundreds more across the country, and the uneducated fashionista potential dog owners keep them going. |
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pat ww
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3459 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 7:13:45 PM
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I have said it before but will say it again, within the Arab world today there are far fewer "breeders" than in the past. "Breeders" are people who keep the best results of their breeding program for several generations, are not infulenced by flash in thepan fashion, and whohave an encyclopedic knowledge of the breed, its bloodlines and its faults.
There are far too many who breed a foal, or many foals, but they are not "breeders" by any definition you would care to use.
The same has happened with the dog world, but to an extreme degree that if we are wise will not allow to happen to our breed of horse.
KNOWLEDGE IS POWER, and all the known genetic defects should be there for all to see, anything that can be screened for shuold be as a conditon of registering the offspring, so that EVERYONE can make an INFORMED CHOICE.
Did the bitch owners of the 26 Cavalier litters have the information? look, there's a flying pig! |
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polly
Platinum Member
2183 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 8:06:03 PM
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I did not learn anything I did not already know, and this is one of the reasons why I have Border Terriers ! we do not have these awful health problems ( Hips, OCD,PRA )associated with Shepherds/Border Collies etc .BUT..they , the Kennel Club ,HAVE been changing the rules to breed healthier dogs in the last 10years....I know one person who breeds bulldogs who was NEVER placed as all her dogs had small heads and had no problem giving birth naturally....but now she is winning and being placed....and it is the KENNEL CLUB who introduced Hip Scores and refuse registration of puppies resulting from parents whith bad health scores. But I agree FAR more needs to be done . ( please do not confuse the terms ...in-line breeding is NOT the same derogatory term as In-breeding )
and Yvonne...what a great idea, non active register sounds like a fantastic idea.I register pups as "progeny not registerable "if I sell them as pets now, but a register would make a lot of sense. |
   
Photos1and2EricGJones
pollywells@.live.co.uk |
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