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Vera
Membership Moderator
 United Kingdom
8652 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Jan 2008 : 12:47:58 PM
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Now before you throw your hands up in horror like I did take a moment.
Did you know that veal crates were banned in the UK and across Europe last year?
Veal meat production is much more humane in that the calves are kept in much larger pens with bedding, about 6 to 8 to a pen so they can socialise, they have room to move around and lay down (not like sardines), they are given fibre (don't know if its silage, hay or pellets) and milk. Before they were stuffed individually in tiny crates unable to lay down or turn around with nothing but milk to drink. This kept the meat pale but the more humane way means the meat is pink.
Because there isn't the demand for the meat in this country many thousands are exported live to the continent where the demand is higher. The alternative is that many thousands are shot at a few days old and incinerated or go to the pet food industry. Is this a a waste of life? Of the veal slaughtered in the UK most of it goes to the processed food industry to go into pies.
Whilst I am strongly against any live animal being exported for slaughter why can't they be produced for meat in this country. Should we be eating more veal? Having said that I'm still not sure I could bring myself to eat it - but then I don't eat lamb either.
What do you think? Would you eat it knowing that it had been produced humanly in the UK and slaughtered in the UK?
The fact remains that if we want milk there will be bull calf by product.
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Hampshire |
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Rozy Rider
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4545 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2008 : 1:13:04 PM
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Well they can, but, it all about costs....
I think if they are to be killed anyway, they are better off killed at a few days/weeks old at home, than be carted miles in transport,loaded and unloaded at markets and delivered for killing at a big slaughter house..which we all know the small ones are all out of buisiness...if they're going to die,let them die at home, without all the trauma.
Chap accross the road has a 80 strong milk herd....There used to be a subsidy of £53 per calf, but thats finished now...I've been in the market and seen a Jersey bull calf fetch just £5, no one wants them.
Its all about money...costs....
Sue |
Sue
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Baikala
Gold Member
571 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2008 : 1:51:17 PM
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Yes I do eat it (locally produced)
I have dairy goats and the billy kids end up in the freezer too.
The meat we buy or produce here travels only a short distance to the butcher and has a stress free life before hand, that's all you can ask really. |
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2008 : 2:24:22 PM
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I expect you watched the programe last night about eating veal in this country. I must say the stunning and slitting of the calves throat made gruesome watching.
Yes, I would eat veal and have, even after that programe.
In an ideal world I would love someone to be able to dry the calves meat and send it to the countries where they are starving to death. Imagine how they would be so much better off eating our surplus unwanted calves.
Dried meat would keep better in a hot country and they could store it better. I think so anyway!
As always we have too much food in our country and not enough elsewhere. |
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Vera
Membership Moderator
United Kingdom
8652 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2008 : 2:51:15 PM
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Yes Sue I saw the programme.
I feel more inclined to eat Veal after seeing it not less. It wasn't the actual killing as although gruesome I think it is as humane as possible but it was the husbandry that I objected to. Seeing how they are raised now with much higher welfare standards has made me think that we should be eating more veal.
It is criminal that these little guys are only worth £5 so the farmers are better off shooting them - although this in infinately better then being transported abroad. What a waste when there are people starving in the world.
Use Veal calves for meat = less beef eaten = less beef calves bred as it should balance out and no wasted lives.
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Hampshire |
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jaybird
Gold Member
France
1192 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2008 : 3:51:53 PM
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Hi
Certainly no veal crates here, my neighbour sells petit veau as they are called, I have seen where they are kept and I certainly do not have a problem with it, I eat a small amount, I was watching a program on the TV regarding the milk industry in the UK they are trying to promote more eating of it over there to maintain the dairy herds, which of course is a must, no milk without calves, bit rough being born a boy me thinks!!
Beryl |
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Zoe Tyzack
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4047 Posts |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2008 : 4:56:48 PM
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well i am vegan so clearly a no.
veal crates were banned in uk long ago and until very recently calves exported from uk had a horrendous existence in crates after their horrendous journey to get there. crates are now being phased out in the rest of europe, but the new systems in most cases still leave a lot to be desired----although no longer crated it is very far indeed from anything approaching a natural life, and in many cases animal organisations are still having to fight for them to have the simple right to bedding.reason-- if there is straw there they eat it because they crave fibre and that means the meat is no longer unnaturally white as from a purely milk fed calf, which is what the crate system was all about.they are still taken from their mothers at a few days old; their mothers still grieve for them; they still travel hundreds of miles as tiny babies.how can anyone who cares about animals have that on their conscience? |
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susan p
Gold Member
Scotland
915 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2008 : 6:59:06 PM
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No never,Im a vegetarian and do not drink milk.
My friend has a dairy farm and the sound of the calves crying and the cows calling for them when they are seperated always reduces me to tears.
It is the same when the lambs are taken from the ewes behind our house in Achnasheen..just heartbreaking,I could never be a farmer |
www.blackislearabians.com
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the ways its animals are treated
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Vera
Membership Moderator
United Kingdom
8652 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2008 : 7:07:09 PM
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All the UK calves shown in the clips had straw bedding and it clearly stated that they were also fed fibre - hence the UK veal meat being pink. The film also showed the continental calves, although no longer in crates they did not have bedding and where kept on slatted floors which became slippery. I don't recall what they are fed being mentioned.
With the appalling price the farmers get for milk couldn't they make use of the by product (I hate saying that but hopefully get my meaning) and produce them on their own farms so no travelling involved (until slaughter)?
Like I said I have never knowing eaten it before and am not sure that I will now but it just seems so wasteful.
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Hampshire |
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Pixie
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
6586 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2008 : 7:13:45 PM
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i am a non meat eater - i do eat fish. tonights programme is on Lambs. my other half is a big meat eater but at home i only buy free range organic - a farmer my oh knows who has a farm shop sometimes gives him steak - don't think that is free range but it might be. but definitely when we eat out we have no idea of the origin of the product he is eating.
re: veal - as i have said i don't eat meat but..... these male calves would just be culled and have no life at all. probably end up - as the programme showed last night - as pet food or food for the hounds etc. at least as a veal calf in England they do have a life and the people they showed last night gave them good living conditions and were well looked after. |
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jaybird
Gold Member
France
1192 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2008 : 08:45:33 AM
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Hi
Yes most of the veal is pink now, the issue with the calves/mothers calling used to worry me here as they sound so sad, but the farmer informs us that the reason the mothers shout so loudly is that because when the calves have gone her milk bags are painful by not being drunk and no other reason, I guess we really do have to understand farming a bit better.
Beryl
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
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polly
Platinum Member
2183 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2008 : 09:48:02 AM
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| I would rather pay for it, and eat it , and push for better conditions....than see them shipped off across the continent, to worse conditions, and unregulated slaughterhouses. If we are going to eat meat in this country we have to accept the responsibities for their lives , and for the method of their deaths. Having been a veggie for 16years and then went back to eating some meat this is a subject I have given a lot of thought to. |
   
Photos1and2EricGJones
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ella
Gold Member
United Kingdom
786 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2008 : 6:53:17 PM
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The problem with encouraging UK veal production is that if proffitable it will quickly switch from the raising of surplus dairy calves to much more muscular beef calves being raised for the veal market therefore we'll be back to the current situation of dairy calves being exported or incinerated soon after birth.
A lose-lose situation? With a worse life for many beef calves? |
   
"If an 'alternative treatment' has reliable effect it becomes classified simply as MEDICINE" D.B. |
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pat ww
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3459 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2008 : 8:20:49 PM
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I eat very little meat, but most of that is probably 'bad' as it comes in ready meals when I get home late in the evening. My fresh alternative is eggs, and these have been home reared in the garden until some creature killed the entire flock one night. The by product of hens is one going broody and producing chicks, some are male and we have allowed these to grow to edible size and had fresh organic roast chicken.
A long time ago we had a nurse cow, she fostered 3 calves that were not her own, and a very good mum she was to her triplets! I am not tough enough to be a full scale farmer, economic decisions weigh above sentiment. |
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susan p
Gold Member
Scotland
915 Posts |
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jaybird
Gold Member
France
1192 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2008 : 5:09:32 PM
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Hi Susan
Why? surely after farming for 60 years you would think they would know a little about thier stock, Oh anyway, it's a consumer choice I guess, no milk no cow's definately no veal problem then.
Beryl
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Grey Girl
Platinum Member
England
1554 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2008 : 6:15:03 PM
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I have long been an advocate that people interested in farming welfare ought to eat British veal (which has been pink) so as to stop the live export of our calves for production of crated white veal (and if you want white veal that much then soak the stuff in milk for a few hours before cooking it).
I have eaten veal on the continent and felt guilty... on the other hand it was in an Austrian restaurant that didn't appear to serve anything else. I know, poor excuse, but there you go.
And yes, it is sad to hear cows calling for their calves; but my friend is a beef farmer and weans his calves as humanely as possible and it's probably rather less stressful in the end than the average mare and foal parting - by the time his calves are weaned the mums are pretty much fed up with them anyway. There's a bit of yelling (for rather less than a day) but it's not a heartbreaking sound. Mind you, I do accept that these are much older calves - who will have a perfectly splendid life before becoming someone's steak dinner - and it's completely different when it's a calf of a just a few days who is destined for a few miserable weeks before a traumatic slaughter.
I haven't seen the said programme so can't comment on that. Why can't we just support small farmers in the UK so that it is possible for them to operate on a truly humane scale? Most farmers would prefer that; surely enough consumers would; and everyone (well, nearly everyone) would be happy.
Hope this hasn't offended anyone. No offence intended, merely observation. |
 Said the little eohippus, "I´m going to be a HORSE"  |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2008 : 09:07:52 AM
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grey girl---as you say these are much older calves---calves for veal production are removed at 2-3 days when mother and calf are still very bonded----think of a mare and foasl at that age.
beryl----i agree with susan p and suggest you read my earlier post. |
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jaybird
Gold Member
France
1192 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2008 : 12:26:27 PM
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Hi
Zan surely you are referring to milk cows not meat cows which is what is farmed here, and that's why the calves are left with the mothers for a longer period, they are all out in the field with them until they get to a certain age or weight, and are send for slaughter, same a lamb I think.
Beryl |
Edited by - jaybird on 13 Jan 2008 12:28:54 PM |
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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
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Kazzy
Platinum Member
England
3335 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2008 : 4:55:46 PM
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I would eat my horses poo before I ever ate Veal.
Janet |
     
Sunny Cheshire |
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Pixie
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
6586 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2008 : 5:33:20 PM
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| lol at RAFA - thanks for the chuckle on a serious subject |
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jaybird
Gold Member
France
1192 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2008 : 7:26:36 PM
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Hi
Well there you go, it's not so bad, and we were talking about different things, Whatever your decisions/beliefs are about life, the most important things are that the public are kept aware and informed of the food they are consuming and the conditions the animals are kept in. I for one come from a long long line of Irish farming families and grew up knowing how it should be done, but life moves on and the demand for cheap food is ever growing, campaign for the knowledge, and pay more for the best.
Could go on and on
Beryl |
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