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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Apr 2007 : 3:05:48 PM
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I feel really embarrassed now. 
Everyone, i was just asking a question, which came about looking thru some really old ahs mags, and stud fee's were 40g's, i'm only 25, and not much of a maths head to work out if thats expensive by todays standard. Thankyou to the people who have offered their stallions, very kind of you all. Although un-necessary.
I do think, things should be made clearer to a mare owner, and also be a breakdown of costs. As some of you mention the covering being included with the keep, i would of thought that would be in with the stud fee?
Again though-it depends on what you are used to paying, full livery by me is £65 a week, everything included, so you can see why i think £40 a week is excessive when out at grass full time.
I think the 1st Oct terms is a really good idea. Giving people time to save up. One example is Malika took all my savings, it cost over £400, and then theres vet bills too, as an oap, i never bothered to insure her. Stuff happens. I just think in this day and age, people should be prepared to neg a bit more.
However, now heres the tricky bit. It may very well, lead to horses being NEGLECTED.
I suppose it's all a catch 22.
I again must add, the crabbet, old english boy was about 2/3 yrs ago now. In that case i just thought it was sad, as he's not at an arab stud, only had one pure bred foal. If she'd met me half way, which i asked. He would of had another pure bred foal.
Jane(Vygoda) would you be so kind to e-mail me please, god your gonna think i'm a nightmare mare owner now! It's in regard to Spearmint. nikki.page@britanniaschoolofmotoring.co.uk
On another note, i recently saw a group of arabian stallions living together! That in itself is amazing. They are endurance horses. So they are proven performers, the stud fee is so reasonable i nearly choked, and asked are you sure!
I will admit, it's just something i can't get my head round.
Why are proven, perfomance arab stallions stud fee's so cheap compared to an in-hand show arab?
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pagey |
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2007 : 3:26:47 PM
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I think the in-hand Arab, especially one that does well in the show ring does command a higher fee, why? one reason I'm sure is, it is not easy to win at a very high level........so that horse must be quite good to have won at such high level, ie, he represents the standard laid down by the judges that have chosen him to win at the shows.
So he must be a good example of the breed standard. Something we as breeders aspire to achieve.
If a horse has won in endurance or racing, he does not really need to be the top in-hand show winner to do so. It seems to make a mockery of our judging system, ie, a horse that may have faults can go on and win on the race course, or in endurance.
But for those of us that like to breed within certain bloodlines, because we like those lines, we need conformation from hopefully several judges, that the stallion we have chosen is a good example of the Arabian breed standard. The show ring does this for us.
I have bred a filly that was back at the knee, she went on to win two races later in life. I would never had bred from her and sold her cheaply to someone who I pointed out her fault to. She would not win in-hand, but this didn't stop her winning out on the track.
Now you will all come back and say I saw so and so in the in-hand ring with horrendous faults, and it still won
This does happen we know.......but this is where the big issue over 'type' being placed slightly higher than correct conformation in the show ring comes into play.
From my above paragraph you have to ask yourself does it matter? if a horse can win on the race track with bad limbs, then why does it matter if an occasional horse wins in-hand with not so good limbs?
all interesting stuff to discuss
I think you will agree that type is not required in endurance or racing, so it never comes into anyones mind when chosing a stallion for mating. I think this is wrong. All arabs should have type or they lose the 'look' of an Arab.
The in-hand arab will have more 'type', as this is what the showring is about.
I guess some people want a beautiful horse in the stable, I dobut I also want one that will do well under saddle too.
If you have a real beauty of a stallion, who can do it all, you can name your price. |
Edited by - SueB on 16 Apr 2007 3:39:58 PM |
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katefox1812
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1612 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2007 : 3:41:56 PM
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Grass livery for visiting mares at Cliveden where my boy stands is £35 per week, and £45 for the week when the mare is actually being covered/AI'd. This seems sensible and very fair.
Also, although they call it 'grass livery', when I was there yesterday I walked down to the paddocks with one of the staff to see one of Tobago's visiting mares - and she was carrying a large bucket of feed, which they've been doing every day, as they felt that this mare needed some extra protein, etc. They pride themselves on always sending visiting mares home in better condition than when they arrived.
The groom I was with knew every one of this mare's little likes and dislikes, quirks and foibles, as well as exactly where she liked to be scratched and petted, which field-companion she preferred (the one she didn't get on with quite so well had immediately been removed, of course), and so on. It sounded as though she was talking about her own horse. She stayed with the mare to make sure she finished her feed, checked over every inch of her to make sure there wasn't so much as the tiniest scratch, gave her lots of affectionate pats and cuddles...
It really isn't just a matter of chucking them out in a field!  |
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katefox1812
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1612 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2007 : 4:01:06 PM
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Nikki there is no need to be embarrassed - you asked perfectly reasonable questions, both about stud fees and about keep fees.
It sounds as though you are now being bombarded with unsolicited and unwanted offers, so you clearly didn't offend many stallion owners! |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2007 : 4:53:06 PM
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Now you will all come back and say I saw so and so in the in-hand ring with horrendous faults, and it still won
This does happen we know.......but this is where the big issue over 'type' being placed slightly higher than correct conformation in the show ring comes into play.
From my above paragraph you have to ask yourself does it matter? if a horse can win on the race track with bad limbs, then why does it matter if an occasional horse wins in-hand with not so good limbs?
all interesting stuff to discuss
I think you will agree that type is not required in endurance or racing, so it never comes into anyones mind when chosing a stallion for mating. I think this is wrong.All arabs should have type or they lose the 'look' of an Arab.
The in-hand arab will have more 'type', as this is what the showring is about.
I guess some people want a beautiful horse in the stable, I dobut I also want one that will do well under saddle too.
If you have a real beauty of a stallion, who can do it all, you can name your price.
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Edited by - SueB on 16 Apr 2007 3:39:58 PM
Ooooohhh, another can of worms!
I always get on the defensive here, when the talk is of type, pretty?
Having remarks made about my "plain in the head arab" horses! I love them, they've got what i want! So they are of the "type" that i want. I prefer a wedge shaped head, not a dish.
Although i am using Goudah, who i do think is very showy, even he hasn't much of a dish.
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pagey |
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Judith S
Platinum Member
Wales
15686 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2007 : 5:02:16 PM
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Nikki - is it Val P-W's stallions you saw living toger as a herd? I know Val & her stalions are great!
Judith |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2007 : 5:18:54 PM
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Judith, Yes!
Aren't they just amazing! I really couldn't believe i was walking in a field full of 3 stallions and 3 geldings! And i felt so safe, i almost forgot they were stallions!
Lovely, lovely boys, the spanish man, and Celti's son were my fav's! |
pagey |
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2007 : 5:22:01 PM
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My post is a good one to bounce a discussion from then
You have whatever Arab you like. Do remember 'type' is not just the head! It covers the whole of the horse.
If we all like the same animal then we won't go forwards. My slight worry/pet hate is seeing some race arabs lose type. Not all, but some do resemble non arabs.
Our in-hand arabs take a lot of criticism especially on this forum, so in defense of them the faults you see in the showring are the same as you see out of it, probably more outside than in it
A top endurance rider, who was speaking at a meeting some years ago, said the endurance world does a great job of 'sopping up' the showring rejects?
Now were they rejects because they had bad conformation, were ugly or were they just poor quality arabs? if yes on any of these, then it says an awful lot for our arabs, it seems they can overcome faults to be used to do tough jobs............... thought provoking
I don't wish to enter into which stallion should you use area, but you should use a stallion that inspires you, not anyone else.
It seems from your postings that you are already, so we all look forwards to seeing the result next spring. I bet it will be a smasher for you too. |
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jaj
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4324 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2007 : 5:24:42 PM
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Goudah is a lurverly looking boy !
jen
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Kuraishiya (Maleik el Kheil/Kazra el Saghira) and Sahara Bey (Kuraishiya/WSA Charismma) |
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Mike
Platinum Member
Eire
1872 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2007 : 8:20:12 PM
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Despite the apparent appearance of high stud fee's, believe it or not stallion owners do not buy, import or even breed their own stallions in the expectation of making any money at all from their endeavours!!!
Mike |
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Nuttybabez
Gold Member
England
522 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2007 : 9:11:43 PM
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Ok this may add more controversy but when my mare went to the coloured sportshorse, I was not happy with her condition when she came home. She had been attacked by flies quite badly and she had lumps all over her. Her headcollar had been left on and had rubbed her (she is not difficult to catch). She had also lost a lot of weight. This is a big stud so I won't mention the name but I wasn't very happy or at all reassured that she had been loved and looked after. It made me think twice about taking her back there. She was on grass livery there.
Last year she went to a different stallion on a sheep farm and there is only the one stallion there with several mares which belong to the farm owners wife. Stallion has his own field. When I took my mare, she was turned out with a mare and gelding belonging to the farmers wife because I know she dislikes being in a field by herself and I was happy she settled with them while I was there as she is not remotely aggressive and neither were the other horses. When I went to fetch her home, she didn't want to come back with me!! She had a lovely time and you could see how much she had settled in such a short time. The lady had spoilt her as if she were one of her own and it really showed! I was over the moon that they had looked after her so well. They were sorry to see her go in fact! Again, she had been on grass livery at this yard but it was much cheaper than the pro yard and her level of care was much higher. She had even been brought in for a couple of nights and fed cos it was cold at no extra cost! |
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Varaina
Gold Member
United Kingdom
606 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2007 : 9:24:09 PM
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| The old saying "fools breed horses for wise men to buy" springs to mind...!!!! |
Fiona Grant-Chivers |
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heathermcbreen
Platinum Member
England
2132 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2007 : 10:30:50 PM
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| Good one!!! why spend £1000+ on a stud fee when there are nice youngsters going for £1500-£3000. I had an interesting idea that everyone should be banned from breeding for two years..... then there would not be all these animals available at such cheap prices. |
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tamila
Platinum Member
England
2532 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2007 : 06:42:20 AM
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Talking of endurance horses. My boy became an endurance horse because of his great ability and also as a youngster he was kicked inthe face by another youngster and so now he has no dish and people think he is an anglo. I also do not look at the in-hand record of a stallion etc. only there is more to performance than showing in-hand.
The stud fees and keep do not seem to have changed much over the years considering how much everything has gone up. I started breeding 23 years ago and, unless you go to some of the more expensive stallions, there is not much difference. The main expense as far as I can see is the fees for testing in foal. We did not have these luxuries years ago and relied on either palpating or waiting. |
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Edited by - tamila on 17 Apr 2007 06:47:41 AM |
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Kristi Belle
Gold Member
United Kingdom
704 Posts |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2007 : 3:25:10 PM
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I've been to the races a few times, got to say, i love it!
All thoughts of racing my arab gelding quickly went out the window when i saw how fast they were going!
But i do agree-some looked just like TB's.
That then comes into-breeding for different disicplines.
One of the reasons, i myself, wanted an arabian, was because i liked the idea of how versatile they are. Which in some ways they still are.
But should one want to do well, in one certain sphere, one would need an arab for that 'certain sphere'!
You know, i loved the idea, of racing one day, an arab show the next. This really isn't possible anymore??????
Yeah right-take my little crabbet arab gelding racing against those fast French, me and him would of been coming in 20mins behind the others.
Unfortunately-some of these 'certain spheres' have become a bit too commercial.
jmo |
pagey |
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