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nikki
Platinum Member
 Wales
4384 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Apr 2007 : 11:37:01 AM
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Just wondering again, whay are arab horse stud fee's so high?
Have they always been high, simply coz the are of the purest blood?
Compared to 'most' other breeds.
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pagey |
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chris lowe
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
74 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2007 : 11:40:12 AM
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compared to the TB stallions arab stud fees are a bargin. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. there has been a small increase in price over the past couple of years.
chris |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2007 : 12:07:23 PM
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thank god i don't breed tb's!lol
Apart from the tb, the arab horse still has a high stud fee. Too high imo when you can not sell the stock, to even get the stud fee back.
Thats why i was wondering, have they always been high? Even when they were first imported, just because they are the purest of horses? |
pagey |
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cazza
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1674 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2007 : 12:23:21 PM
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Nikki
I think if you try to get your money back on breeding a foal, youd be very lucky. Breeding is not a money making experience. Personally I dont think Arab stud fees are so bad, And if you look through horse deals at stallions at stud, some of the pony stallions are more than a good Arab stallion.
The coloured stallions too hold a far higher stud fee than the arabs.
Cazza
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www.ravenswoodpetrescue.co.uk |
Edited by - cazza on 13 Apr 2007 12:44:19 PM |
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Emancy
Gold Member
United Kingdom
1147 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2007 : 12:33:41 PM
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Hi Nikki
not all stallions have a high stud fee - we are standing a young colt and his fee is VERY reasonable, especially considering his amazing pedigree. He is too young to have foals on the ground yet though and this is the reason his price has started so low.
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www.arabianstudfarms.com |
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Michelle
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3197 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2007 : 12:39:03 PM
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I don't think they are that high.
I remember enquiring about two stallions back in about 1991 and they were £1000 and £1500 - top notch stallions then and thats what you would expect to pay for a top notch stallion these days as well.
Prices haven't gone up much at all. |
IIsis Arabians
www.iisisarabians.com www.ali-abbas.co.uk
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Nikkisian89
Silver Member
England
292 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2007 : 12:55:55 PM
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I usually find stallions with good (popular) bloodlines and with a good show record have higher stud fees??
I do agree though, Arab stallions stud fee's are a bargain compared to Thoroughbreds, i remember seeing a few TB racehorse stallions with 100K+ stud fees!!  |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2007 : 1:01:09 PM
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Breeding horses to make money---eeek! no way, know what a money pit they are! And i have never sold a foal that i bred. I don't even think it's possible to make money from breeding.
Just simply flicking through an old horse deals magazine i've found in the office(1yr old) which got me thinking.
Most stud fee's are in the range of £300-£450, you can use Randi(showjumper) for like £650! Very tempting.
I do however think it's sad that some people charge too much either in stud fee, or keep fee's. Resulting in their stallions hardly being used.
I found a lovely crabbet, old english boy at stud, his fee was reasonable only keep charges were £40 a week out at grass! Which imo is a rip-off, as a result-we all lost out, as i will not pay those sort of charges. I'm not in it to make money-lost enough already!lol |
pagey |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2007 : 1:25:35 PM
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| maybe coz of where i am, just used to seeing arabs for sale for £1000-£1500 by me. |
pagey |
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jaybird
Gold Member
France
1192 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2007 : 1:29:34 PM
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Hi Nikki
I think £40 per week for keep is fantastic £5.70 a day I wouldn't look after a cat for that, and remember they are taking responsibility for someone elses Pride & Joy, If people seriously must breed thier mares then I think they must sit and do all the sums properly, I would expect to pay, and to charge, double that for a decent stud to look after my horse.
B (France) |
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sub
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1919 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2007 : 1:36:46 PM
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Don't forget that TB's go to sales and fetch prices from £20000 upwards - some have gone for over a million.
Hence the higher stud fee's.
Of course, you can pick them up for a reasonable price too, but they tend to be failed racers.
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Sundance
Racing Moderator
England
932 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2007 : 2:08:08 PM
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Hi Nikki,
Arab stud fees aren't too bad, there are some fantastic ones available from £250 to £8k in the Arab racing scene. When you send a mare away to stud you have to budget the fee + keep + vets bills. The latter is the killer - Aliesha spent 4 mths at one stud and had 3 courses of AI and eventually conceieved (determination on mine the vets and stud owners part) and had a superb colt. Some studs do 1 st Oct terms (i.e. don't have to pay the stud fee until Oct!) so people can save up over ths summer, this is also done alot with TB stallions.
I usually pay £3 a day at the stud that does my AI for my mares so £21 a week not bad at all, I don't think £40 a week is too expensive.
I, however, would never stand a stallion at stud as it must be so much hassle, I admire those who do.
Anyone who breeds Arabs to make money must be punch drunk IMO. It is truly a labour of love!
Paul |
Paul
www.zayinarabianstud.co.uk |
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sazzlepants71
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3536 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2007 : 2:11:40 PM
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| think you will get what you pay for nikki, to be honest i think most stud fees are VERY reasonable if i was looking to breed i think that is a fair charge and reflects the market, nothing's for free in this life! |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2007 : 2:54:58 PM
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I've never asked for anything to be free, but i do think £40at grass is expensive, it's only £10/£15 by me.
Doesn' anyone think it's bad the pay £1000 for a stud fee, to then sell offspring for £900!
Good job i won't be doing it anymore soon! I only wanted to have some fun, and breed a horse i can compete on.
Think this has taken out of context a bit |
pagey |
Edited by - nikki on 13 Apr 2007 2:59:02 PM |
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cassy
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3348 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2007 : 3:39:15 PM
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Some of the fees are very reasonable but some overpriced, i got a 72% covering for a very good fee if want his info, im paying 40 a week out day in night with 2 feeds a day and adlib haylage for pony thats gone to him which is a bargain
My other mare 14.2 bay 72% Arab has been AI to H TOBAGO and he is also a very reasonable fee with a lovely owner, no idea what this cost will be re keep as my mare went to vet last sat and been scanned daily since Mon and AI'D today, she should come home Mon but still much cheaper than transport to stud and livery when there
I think a lot of cost re breeding comes with the livery and vets, there are some stunning stallions out there
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Angie
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sazzlepants71
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3536 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2007 : 3:47:44 PM
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i hope you do find the right horse nikki i really do - to be lucky enough to breed and then keep a lovely horse is a great postition to be in - i am sure you'll find what you want , keep searching ! it took us 8 months to find the right potential ridden gelding which we have now! so i know its not easy wish you lots of luck  |
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cazza
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1674 Posts |
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katefox1812
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
1612 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2007 : 4:34:38 PM
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Thanks Cassy! I am not in this for the money, and I want breeders who use my young stallion to feel they are getting a great bargain! Like Emancy's boy, this is his first season, so I've been giving big concessions to special mares, and to nice people who will give his foals good, loving homes (my top priority).
When I have replied to enquiries and offered these concessions, several breeders have written back to me saying 'Are you SURE that's all you want? I was expecting to pay MUCH more for him!' I wonder how many stud owners get that reaction! And his terms are LFG, as I feel that breeders should not have to pay for anything less than a live foal.
I do think that some of the fees charged for top Arab stallions are very high, putting them out of reach to small breeders. So it's good for the breed if at least some high-class stallions are available at reasonable prices. (And if they are available by AI, so people can do this with a vet close to home as Cassy has done, so much the better. )
But I do understand that it's much easier for me as a little one-horse owner to give generous concessions and so on than it is for some commercial studs, as I am not trying to make a living out of this. My stallion is my friend, not a business, and anything he earns towards his keep is a bonus, not a necessity. Obviously it's different for people who are running studs as a business, or even who just have several other horses to feed, so I'm not criticizing anyone. |
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nikki
Platinum Member
Wales
4384 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2007 : 5:13:08 PM
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When i mean this has been taken out of context.
My original question was, why are arab stud fee's high?have they always been high? due to them being the purest blood?
It was in no way having a whinge! Just a general question, because they are arabs is that why they are so high.
You can use a Grade A showjumper such as Randi, for £650 or an arab thats never been shown under saddle(not sure if he's broken) for £1200. Thats just been shown in-hand. Do see what i mean? Ah, pickiling myself now!
But i do think £40 a week just grass is alot. I just think the person could of neg., my mares are good quality. And i think he's only had one pure bred foal! Just seems like an awful waste of that stallion. Anyway this was yonks ago. Was just using as an example.
I simply can not afford £40 a week, on top of stud fee's, transport, and vet fee's, swab etc.
And thats what i mean- gosh, imagine i was doing it for the money, or to sell.
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pagey |
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madmare
Platinum Member
England
2129 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2007 : 5:56:18 PM
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I think £40 for grass keep is expensive as well!!!! Mind you I think £25 per week grass livery is expensive!!!!!!
I would agree that for some of the "fashionable" stallions, who have shed loads of offspring on the market, the price is ridiculous, and some owners are cashing in on their horses popularity. I also think that a stallion should not be allowed to stand at stud, unless he is a PROVEN PERFORMER either under saddle, in hand, or in another sphere....notjust cos he looks pretty!
I am not getting at anyone, or any stallions, but I must stand up for what I believe..I also believe that mares must be proven performers in their chosen sphere. The arab breed AS A WHOLE has a major image problem...and that needs to be addressed by showing arabs to be performance horses...not as I heard some time ago "overdressed, over excited, in hand poodles, capable of nothing except poncing around". |
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2007 : 6:38:50 PM
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I think intially stud fees for Arabians were high due to the fact that they were quite 'rare'. You didn't get many arabs around and definately not many stallions.
More of a 'who you know' to use the stallion years ago perhaps. So guess this is where the high fees started? could be wrong.
I am in favour of a relatively high fee, purely looking at it from the stallion owners view. There is just so much hassle involved.
I think Kate has the right answer, doing AI and letting others take the strain
I do understand the arguement for letting owners have a cheaper covering.........but, is the mare of the same quality as those who would pay a very high fee? do you think this has something to do with it all?
Difficult when you are trying to start a stallion off in his first year. |
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madmare
Platinum Member
England
2129 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2007 : 6:53:30 PM
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This is where performance points come in..if a mare has a certain amount of points (ie is a champion ridden show horse, or has proved herself an all round performer) then the owner should pay a reduced stud fee....whereas an unproven mare should pay the higher fee. That way, we get to re-establish the breed as a performance horse, and the breed will benefit in the long run.
Why can the AHS not put into practice the grading system that is so prevalent in warmblood breeding? Therefore ensuring only the best horses are graded, and allowed to stand as stallions. Others who don't come up to scratch are gelded....the breed can only get better!
Mares as well should be graded, or have to undergo rigorous testing to ensure they are the best examples of the breed....we really do need somethig to change..and fast! |
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Nuttybabez
Gold Member
England
522 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2007 : 8:45:01 PM
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I think in general the arab world is very different to the rest of the horse world. Yes they are fantastic horses but they have a whole set of different rules for everything - stud fees, registration fees, prefixes, styles of showing etc.
I agree with you on this as well Nikki, I have used a top quality coloured sportshorse stallion and he cost me £225 stud fee as he was unproven. 2 years later with many wins under his belt, his stud fee is £375 I think. This time I have used an american paint horse and he cost me £350 stud fee and the next stallions I am planning to use are either a showing champion or a very successful dressage horse and their stud fees are around £400.
These horses are out working and winning money and proving that they are capable of a job, I think thats the difference. Their value is not judged by how 'correct' their conformation is or who their parents are. Please don't anyone take that offensively. A lot of arabs value it seems to me in my opinion depends on how they are bred and not on the horse itself - conformation, temprement, ability etc.
Also, I think £40 per week livery is far too much. I would expect to pay £10-£20 a week. |
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Nick
Gold Member
United Kingdom
887 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2007 : 9:57:01 PM
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Look at this from the Stallion owners point of view,There is the price of breeding or buying your Stallion, there are the facilities
you need to accomodate visiting Mares little thing like post and rail fencing,good grass,Then there is the cost of promoting your Stallion
adverts events etc, and your time now that is the big one from phone calls from the worried owner to covering having the vet etc etc,
And the risk of damage to your Stallion, property fencing etc,
picking Viruses up from visiting mares,
The more i write the more it becomes apparent standing Stallions at stud in a correct and proper fashion is a time consuming expensive venture and we should be thankful of the chance to use some of these
boy`s at the price they are,
But the old proverb you pay your money and take your chances are true,
Nick BBA |
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Nedds71
Gold Member
Wales
679 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2007 : 10:11:32 PM
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From the point of view of a small stud, I wouldn't want the resposibility of an owners prize mare for less that £25 per week grass livery. Its a great responsibility! Any livery that stays with us is checked a minimum of four times a day, droppings cleared daily etc.
I do feel that Stallions need to prove themselves good producers of quality stock or a good perforamance ability before there stud fee rises. But that said every thing must have a value.
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BJ
www.bmjarabians.co.uk
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Tomos
Gold Member
Wales
940 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2007 : 10:18:51 PM
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I don't think £40.00pw for a mare at stud is particularly expensive,as you're not just paying for grass livery, the mare will need to be checked and handled every day, brought in for trying, covering, veterinary treatment, the farrier etc etc. So you are actually paying for the studs time as well.
As for stud fees, if anything, I think they've come down for all breeds other than TBs, as there has been a phenomenal increase in the number of stallions available. Its certainly true of Carmarthenshire where we have the largest equine population in Wales.
I also think that the cost of breeding a foal should be reasonably high, mainly on welfare grounds to discourage indiscriminate, and on a whim breeding ( and before anybody shoots me down I'm not saying anyone here is doing that) but I bet everyone of you has said at some point, why did they breed that foal ?
And Madmare just like to echo everything you said, last time I talked about all stalions being graded it got lost. Though of course we do have the premium scheme.
Mandy
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"An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind" Gandhi
www.hispanoarabeswales.co.uk
www.thewelshcrabbetshow.org.uk |
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