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Judi
Silver Member
England
494 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Feb 2007 : 7:38:29 PM
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I don't like the way the majority of stallions are kept, and would never sell an entire colt, personally. Everything is wonderful when they are young, fit, fashionable and winning. When they get older, and unfashionable, many go on the scrap heap of life.
A gelding stands more chance of finding a decent, caring home than a colt in the long term IMO. You may sell to someone you think is great, but what happens when they sell and so on??? What happens in 22 years?
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Judi
judirhodes1@yahoo.co.uk |
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Silvern_Scepris
Gold Member
England
1084 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2007 : 7:56:36 PM
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| I have PM'd you Roseanne. |
  
London/Essex Border |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2007 : 9:26:31 PM
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| Have replied Elizabeth, thanks for that! |
Roseanne |
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s.jade
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
2401 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2007 : 9:31:37 PM
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Having witnessed in the last couple of years 2 stallions; both who were very good sires in their day; being passed from pillar to post (one ending up in a horrific state at auction...needless to say we bought him) as they were no longer of fashionable type as it were, I personally will not now sell a colt, no matter how good he may be...however good a colt he is, he'll be a much nicer gelding.
I haven't told my yearling this yet though... |
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Jilly
Platinum Member
England
2431 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2007 : 9:55:33 PM
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Just thinking out loud here, but isn't it funny....when we were in majorca a few years ago we went to see the andalucian display, it wasn't a big affair, but very profesional.
All the horses were stallions, apparently they see them as much easier to train, than mares or geldings.
After the display, which was breathtaking, we were allowed to meet the stallions, who were all tied next to each other....not a single muff from any of them, they were so gentle and obviously happy. Not one roaring beast in sight.
Like I said, just thinking out loud and wondering what it is that they do, that they can have a dozen or more mature stallions working together in such beautifull harmony, and in such close proximity....
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Chris James
Silver Member
United Kingdom
497 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2007 : 10:15:27 PM
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The same can happen here - some years ago Gerrard Naprous lived locally before they re-located down south - Devils Horsemen (film stuntmen Bond Films etc) and he had several Arabian stallions alongside his Andulsians and they were all just tied up together without any partitions in a big barn and all got on famously. Again a couple of years ago I saw another stunt team working out of Liverpool, can't remember their name, but they too had Arab stallions working in the team - a joy to watch - all getting on together.
I think as has been said so many times before - the Arabian is an intelligent horse, so give him a job to do and occupy his brain then he'll work with you forever, be it mare, stallion or gelding! |
Chris James
http://home2.btconnect.com/cjames-arabians |
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Tomos
Gold Member
Wales
940 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2007 : 12:03:51 AM
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I've found this very interesting on a number of levels, I've been breeding for a lot of years now and get increasingly concerned about the quality of life many stallions and colts have.
I have always advocated grading stallions, at the very least this would take out the conformationally and temperamentally unsound colts and stallions if they were not approved for breeding.
Our Hispano Arabe stallions had to pass a comprehensive grading procedure before they were approved as breeding stallions, unfortunately as far as I'm concerned the Spanish have now dropped the more comprehensive grading for purebred andalusians and they undergo a much less stringent test than the hispano's.
At present for most Arabs and partbreds the only route is to use NASTA testing, a purely voluntary ( and potentially expensive ) exercise.
THe other side of the coin is I have absolutely no problem with people keeping stallions as their riding horses rather than breeding horses, as long as they are able to offer them consistent handling, full turnout and the companionship of another horse. Our stallions live together, they stay out all day and come in at night in stables where they can see and touch each other.
We always geld as yearlings, just personal preference, unless we sell as foals in which case we do it earlier
Mandy
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"An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind" Gandhi
www.hispanoarabeswales.co.uk
www.thewelshcrabbetshow.org.uk |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2007 : 09:47:09 AM
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I'd be interested to know what the differences are in grading of Hispano Arabs to Andalusians. My Andalusian was graded six years ago and that seemed quite stringent - he passed I'm glad to say!!
Perhaps the thing is that the stallions don't all cover and maybe don't live too closely to the mares. I find it's when there's competition for mares that the stallions get really upset - naturally I guess. |
Roseanne |
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jaybird
Gold Member
France
1192 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2007 : 1:09:42 PM
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Hi all
That's just it Chris WORK, if stallions are worked together this is usually the outcome, social beasts, but unforunately this is not the case most of the time, the colts and stallions are left day after day in a stable sometimes with minimum turnout, boredom sets in and so do the problems, hey presto unmanagable animals, that must be sold on. I know stallions that are absolutely fine with other boys and girls, only because they are worked on a regular basis and not treated any differently, I bought my Jay as a stallion and the only reason he was gelded was I am not interested in breeding and as I kept him at livery I wanted hime a have as much of social life as possible.
B (France) |
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CINDERS
Gold Member
England
750 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2007 : 2:36:57 PM
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At HocoN we have split ages for the geldings but sadly the numbers have dwindled over the last few years meaning that we may have to take the decision to amalgamate the classes again.
Sue, like you I believed the Geldings were not under Ecaho but was informed by Ecaho that this is in fact not the case therefore offering prize money would not be possible, apparently this is a common misconception.
For the Ridden classes I believe the number required for a split in a HOYS Qualifier is 20 unless this has been recently changed. Novice classes could of course be split, do people think this would help as I am sure that most show organisers would be happy to offer a split class if they thought it would encourage more entries.
Yvonne
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2007 : 4:09:15 PM
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It can be very difficult to be one of 19 or 20 horses in a class! For a start if the ring isn't that big it causes problems for horses with different gaits; then you get the scenario where the experienced and confident use their ringcraft to make their own way, which can be intimidating for the newer ones on the scene. And I'm sure it must be very difficult for the judge to try to contrast and compare among such a large field, especially on one of those mega-hot summer days when we're all melting under our wool coats and hats (as is the poor judge!!). The poor combinations pulled in towards the bottom have a horse that's totally gone to sleep before the judge gets on!!
And what kind of level playing field is it, when the judge is expected to adjudicate between a class of 7 - 8 mares or stallions in a class, and a single collection of 19 or 20 geldings?
Apart from the cost of rosettes it shouldn't make too much difference splitting the classes I'd have thought.
What's the actual drop in entries Yvonne? Rather a shame to hear that. The Wessex Summer Show HOYS geldings class last year had 19 in it! |
Roseanne |
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SueB
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
3218 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2007 : 4:17:54 PM
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Isn't that strange Yvonne. Poor old geldings seem to get overlooked somewhat in Europe, perhaps they are now getting the recognition they deserve.
I guess it depends which show where, with respect to entries, at our SWG show the geldings have been known to creep into the next ring!
All we can do is help persuade the non c shows to split classes. I remember it taking years to get one show to split the very large 2 & 3yr combined class, then no one bothered to enter anymore!! can't win. |
Edited by - SueB on 26 Feb 2007 4:27:40 PM |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2007 : 4:39:54 PM
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| Ooops I think I should have said ON one of 19 or 20 horses!!! |
Roseanne |
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Pashon2001
Platinum Member
3575 Posts |
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lovehorses
Silver Member
England
390 Posts |
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Tomos
Gold Member
Wales
940 Posts |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
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Tomos
Gold Member
Wales
940 Posts |
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Pashon2001
Platinum Member
3575 Posts |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2007 : 8:32:44 PM
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| Mandy thank you very much. No rush at all! Take as much time as you need. I will just be fascinated to see the changes! |
Roseanne |
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