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Zan
Platinum Member
Scotland
3213 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Nov 2006 : 7:08:19 PM
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| I would second the Flamazine---great for burns. That is so horrendous. Can your friend get her vet on board to try to push the RSPCA into a prosecution? Or speak to a lawyer? I can't believe that there is no case there for a prosecution. Perhaps it has been ruled out on theory only---i.e. hot branding isn't illegal---but I would have thought the evidence of the actual burn would be a different matter. |
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suneagle
Gold Member
England
727 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2006 : 7:31:10 PM
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OH MY GOD!!!!!! i cant blame your friend for going along with it, it sounded all above board.
my fiance does fire spinning (topless), and he is always getting burnt, we have loads of sort of cream that we got from A&E cant remember its name begins with f and sounds abit like freezesomething something? also use this stuff called jelonet which is a gause with vaseline all over it, it stops normal bandages getting stuck, also keep it WET dont let it dry out because thats when it blisters, vaseline is really good for keeping it wet really use alot because burns are OVERLY dryed out skin and needs the mosture put back it. is the colt on anti biotics and anti imflamtories?
have you tryed going through the small claims court?. |
clare xxxx |
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Nimlat
Silver Member
England
461 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2006 : 7:49:12 PM
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| In the past I helped with a branding program on Lundy. The branding was carried out by a very experienced man from the New Forest Society. The irons have to be a certain temperature,placed on the clipped area with a certain weight behind them and held for only a few seconds - long enough to damage the hair follicles - not to cause a red burn. None of the ponies felt a thing - I am positive of that. The fresh brand was immediately rubbed over(as done on the TV program)with no response from the pony. There is no point in trying to correct a hashed up branding, just makes it worse. What is needed is experienced people on the end of the branding irons. Done with knowledge and care it is quick and painless. . |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2006 : 9:05:43 PM
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| Typical. This idiot was probably repeating something he saw on a cowboy film when he was small... People's ignorance astounds me sometimes. |
Roseanne |
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Annie Oakley
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
175 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2006 : 10:04:08 PM
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Hi all,
Many thanks for all your suggestions re treatment for the burn. The colt is on antibiotics and bute. My friend is here with me as I am writing this post. She is touched by your kind words and support. We feel that we really need to push the RSPCA into some sort of action. I don't know if I'm allowed to say this so it may well be edited but this breeder is a "big noise" in the Analusian Society. Obviously there is no support,(officially anyway), from that department. Small claims will be a definate option if nothing is resolved to satisfaction. Thank Goodness the Trading Standards are prepared to fight our corner.
I will keep you posted and thanks again for your concern, advice and support.
Cheers
Annx |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2006 : 10:14:29 PM
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What's your email address Ann?
I do think some British people get entranced by the Spanish way of keeping horses and want to do the same. But it's not possible; we have a different equestrian culture. |
Roseanne |
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Annie Oakley
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
175 Posts |
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jasjmm
Gold Member
625 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2006 : 09:43:22 AM
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Ann
I can't believe the picture, the would is clearly still burning underneath. Wouldn't care if the woman was god herself in the Andalusian breed society, if she is prepared to have that done to one of her colts then she either has no feelings for her horses or she is out and out cruel.
Please send very best regards to your friend and I would definitely push for the court claim/prosecution. I should think the breeder is a little more wary now, just on the basis of it effecting her name, if nothing else, but I'd follow it up without a doubt. If I had bought the colt I'd be furious.
Very best wishes again, to both owner and horse,
Mary |
    
Bristol |
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madmare
Platinum Member
England
2129 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2006 : 10:22:36 AM
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Annie..is it the stud near Rising Bridge? If it is..I know her, my friend was going to send her mare to one of the stallions up there...email me at
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Grey Girl
Platinum Member
England
1554 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2006 : 2:10:14 PM
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I am horrified that the animal welfare groups couldn't care less about this: if someone had tied a firework to the foal and caused similiar damage they'd be screaming all over the courts for a prosecution. So isn't this wilful and deliberate cruelty? I know nothing about hot branding but it seems (from the comments here) that when done properly by an experienced person it doesn't cause any suffering. This foal has been deliberately injured by someone who thought it would be 'fun'.
Himself says Go For Publicity and scream this all over your local papers and shame the welfare groups or police into doing something. If this Top Breeder objects then you have plenty of proof as to the injury caused. I would say put adverts out in the specialist press showing the photograph and describing what happened and naming the breeder involved.
Plus the damage was done to property that didn't belong to either the brand-wielder or the stud owner. Surely the studowner is guilty of something to do with damage to someone else's property?
Sorry for using words like 'property' but that's often the only way the law will see something, not as a live creature that has been tortured.
Grey Girl
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 Said the little eohippus, "I´m going to be a HORSE"  |
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Grey Girl
Platinum Member
England
1554 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2006 : 2:16:01 PM
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Himself has just made another point which may help your friend's legal battle: she bought a colt, presumably she was going to use him as a stud, and was going to show him to help gain publicity for him. He can't now be shown, he therefore won't get the publicity he should: she may be able to get somewhere with loss of future earnings. Especially as the stud owner let her friend torture this foal rather than one of hers - it might be arguable in court that she deliberately let a sold foal be damaged to give her own foals a better chance in the future (as in one less to compete against). But tenuous, but you never know.
Poor little foal.
Grey Girl |
Said the little eohippus, "I´m going to be a HORSE" |
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Annie Oakley
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
175 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2006 : 2:39:02 PM
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Hi All,
Grey girl you have made some really interesting points. To be honest, we'd never thought of taking the story to the press. That would deffo set the cat amongst the pigeons!!! Good thinking!!!
I will keep you all posted.
Cheers
Annx |
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Azara
Bronze Member
England
203 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2006 : 4:25:02 PM
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I am the owner of a hotbranded and microchipped Spanishbred PRE mare. When I discussed the issue of hotbranding vs freezebranding he felt that CORRECTLY APPLIED there is no difference in the pain experienced by the horse in either methods. He asked me if I have ever had a freezer burn and the answer was yes - and there is indeed pain from something very cold being applied to the skin as well as from something very hot.
I have not seen any research into the pain reaction and comparison between the two methods, but my vet made me think... |
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Azara
Bronze Member
England
203 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2006 : 4:27:38 PM
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edited to add: I over edited!
the 'he' refers to my vet! |
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Judith S
Platinum Member
Wales
15686 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2006 : 5:24:53 PM
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Thats intersting Alison. I've had ten plus horses freeze marked - nine were no prob - I don't think they knew it had been done! Of course Jet had to react - he went balistic & got rather violent so only got 1/2 the freezemanrk done! Then at a later date Vet sedated him & the freeze mark was completed. Even now - seven years later I can't clip him on that shoulder - he has a long memory!! the last couple of horses I bought I've had micro-chipped!
Judith |
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Azara
Bronze Member
England
203 Posts |
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Azara
Bronze Member
England
203 Posts |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2006 : 6:53:55 PM
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| I'm sorry to say, but it seems to be a very 'possessive' thing to do to an animal. When we know that a horse can feel a fly alighting on it, is this not a barbaric practice? Personally, although I realise a brand makes a Spanish horse look unquestionably like a Spanish horse, I don't think it looks attractive. It makes it look like cattle at a market. I could never do this to any of my beautiful horses. |
Roseanne |
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Azara
Bronze Member
England
203 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2006 : 7:56:56 PM
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My Spanish mare was branded in Grenada where she was born, and before I knew of her existance. My other horses, bar the Lipi (incidentally not branded in this country either but in Hungary, his place of birth) are freezebranded.
My PRE youngstock will NOT be hotbranded. |
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barbara.gregory
Platinum Member
United Kingdom
4531 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2006 : 8:46:26 PM
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How awful, the things people do to their horses, they should be shot, even worse to do it to someone elses. If anyone did that to one of my foals I would throttle them. All I can say is that the breeder deserves to be named and shamed, that is barbaric. It is unbelievable that the powers that be are not interested, it is downright cruel and the person who did it and those that allowed it to happen should be prosecuted. I would take legal advice about suing the breeder. Just be careful about loss of future earnings from the colt as if you don't run a business and are not licenced by planning to run a business on your premises then you could end up in a lot of trouble.
I have a nasty spiteful neighbour and she has written to planning and said that I have built stables and barns without planning permission (I haven't) and that I am running a business (I am not, I would need my head examined if I was running a business that badly!) so I have had a huge questionnaire from planning about my horses, stables, where I get my money to keep the horses(I work very hard for it unlike her who has never worked a day in her life), what I feed them, how many horses, what breeds, what ages, how many mares, stallions etc and even how many visitors we have. If you want to sue it would have to be on loss of use of the colt as a show horse bought for pleasure and as a future riding horse, don't mention stud fees, loss of earnings etc.
Barbara |
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Azara
Bronze Member
England
203 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2006 : 9:11:32 PM
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I am just playing devil's advocate here but your friend did say that she AGREED for the breeder to brand the colt. Unfortunately, some amateur idiot then performed the branding - I *think* the only legal recompense would be that the act caused the colt unnecessary suffering, I don't think she can claim anything further as the colt is still perfectly viable and useful depsite a slipped brand mark.
I also think that naming and shaming the breeder is counter productive as it is not just the Iberian horse world that hot brands their stock in the UK as previously mentioned by Madmare.
The sad thing is that there really is a viable alternative to hot branding the Iberian that is more humane and acceptable to the UK horse-owing population.
The individual brands could still be made in common with Spanish and Portuguese tradition, and would give the same effect (more or less) but using the freezebrand method.Why hasn't anyone suggested this to BAPSH?
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suneagle
Gold Member
England
727 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2006 : 9:19:22 PM
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you have to be very carfeful on how you word things because one small thing you may let slip and it can all be turned against you.
hope it goes through alright, go to the papers, horse and hound maybe?, to be honist i wouldnt bother with the rspca called them out 4 times about a terribly lammi horse on huge amounts of grass and grossly over weight, they kept saying the horse has a shelter, water and grass nothing we can do....
MORE LIKE CANT BE BOTHARED!
try the ilph or redwings specialish equine charitys.
hope it all goes alright now and the colt reccovers well i god forbid hope that this man hasnt done it to anyone elses horses or ponies. |
clare xxxx |
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Roseanne
Moderator
United Kingdom
6708 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2006 : 10:59:12 PM
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It seems the verbal agreement between the colt owner and the breeder was that the brand could be done under anesthetic and by a trained practitioner. That's where the contract has gone wrong.
The difference between this country and another is the 'unnecessary suffering' element of what was done. We all know other countries do barbaric things; the difference in Britain is that we don't tolerate cruelty in the same way. I would like to think the man who tried his hand at this practice was at best negligent and at worst recklessly cruel. I'd expect compensation for the permanent disfigurement of the horse and the distress of the animal and its owner.
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Roseanne |
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